Donald Trump says immigrants are "poisoning the blood of our country"

[Libertas Vel Mors]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

[DaleCooper]

Part of the problem with this angle is that no one under the age of about 60 even remembers this great freedom-loving American culture that conservatives are so scared of losing.

[jojoju1998]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

Yeah but what type of Freedom ?


My Vietnamese Immigrant parents are the most patriotic Americans, you will ever meet. Staunch Conservatives. Voted for President Trump.


They love the traditional definition of freedom. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion especially. Business Freedom.


What they don't like is how that definition of freedom is being warped by some in the US, to push social changes on society.


So they find their traditional communitarian values to be under threat from a warped definition of individualism, that goes against what the Founders would agree with.

[It’s so Joever]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

And I do not want you in society.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigrants-recognize-american-greatness-immigrants#patriotic-assimilation


This study shows that Immigrants are often times more patriotic than native born Americans.

Do you ever wonder why the democratic voter base is getting increasingly white



Do you assume that people like my parents are not " conservative " or " assimilated " enough ? Are they less patriotic than say a white liberal lawyer in the Bay Area ?

1. This poll finds that "Citizen Immigrants" have a slightly higher rate of saying America is the greatest country than native-born Americans. There is no group breakdown, however. Given that my whole point revolves around the idea that we can optimize immigration by considering culture, this is non-responsive.

2. It isn't. The bases of both parties have gotten less white as America has diversified over the past decades.

4. I don't know your parents, but I think you've said your parents are conservative Vietnamese of Chinese ancestry? I would definitely assume your parents are more patriotic than your average Bay Area lawyer, and Vietnamese refugees during the post-Vietnam era are definitely immigrants I would have let in.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

And I do not want you in society.

Sucks for you.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Part of the problem with this angle is that no one under the age of about 60 even remembers this great freedom-loving American culture that conservatives are so scared of losing.

What do you mean? It exists all around us, right now. Wake up and smell the pollen -- the guns are cheap, the country is rich, and the people love freedom.

[It’s so Joever]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

And I do not want you in society.

Sucks for you.

Right back at you with the based immigrants. Stop complaining and savor the kebab!

[Libertas Vel Mors]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

Yeah but what type of Freedom ?


My Vietnamese Immigrant parents are the most patriotic Americans, you will ever meet. Staunch Conservatives. Voted for President Trump.


They love the traditional definition of freedom. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion especially. Business Freedom.


What they don't like is how that definition of freedom is being warped by some in the US, to push social changes on society.


So they find their traditional communitarian values to be under threat from a warped definition of individualism, that goes against what the Founders would agree with.

Like what?

[jojoju1998]

-Snip-

You still have yet to answer my question. What exactly about being Tajik makes you skeptical on the prospects of their ability to immigrate and eventually integrate here other than just some vibes of them being culturally different than mainstream American culture?

You haven't yet asked that question.

I am broadly skeptical because Tajikistan is a predominantly Muslim country without a market economy or substantial Western cultural influence (I don't believe the Soviets Westernized Tajikistan, despite their rule there: some Westernization surely did occur, but nothing on the scale of, say, Turkey). I see little reason to assume given those factors that Tajik immigrants would assimilate at a comparable degree or rate to other immigrants we could prioritize instead. I am, however, open to counter-arguments, and I will freely admit that while my knowledge of Tajikistan is greater than your average layman, it is by no means deep.

Seeing as if People often flee to the US, for better opporunties, wouldn't that mean that they believe in a market economy in practice ?


What's the attraction of America ? The American Dream. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion.


Tajikstan has none of that. So people come here for that reason. As for the Muslim part, Most muslims in Tajikstan, are Muslims in name only, and the Government enforces state secularism, which is the total opposite of American Religious Freedom.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

And I do not want you in society.

Sucks for you.

Right back at you with the based immigrants. Stop complaining and savor the kebab!

I love kebab. I would let in tons of Turkish and Israeli immigrants. Should I post my immigration plan here again?

[It’s so Joever]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

And I do not want you in society.

Sucks for you.

Right back at you with the based immigrants. Stop complaining and savor the kebab!

I love kebab. I would let in tons of Turkish and Israeli immigrants. Should I post my immigration plan here again?

You literally were just worried about Tajiks because they are Muslim…but you are good with Turks? Help me understand your stupidity please.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Ftr Haley/Ryan, I am not a Tajik, I am a Muhajir.

Now, based on on earlier statements of being skeptical of people coming from predominantly Muslim countries and telling jojoju that communitarian values are a net negative for this country, can you tell me straight to my face that my family shouldn't have been allowed to immigrate here?

[DaleCooper]

Part of the problem with this angle is that no one under the age of about 60 even remembers this great freedom-loving American culture that conservatives are so scared of losing.

What do you mean? It exists all around us, right now. Wake up and smell the pollen -- the guns are cheap, the country is rich, and the people love freedom.

Lmao

[Libertas Vel Mors]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

And I do not want you in society.

Sucks for you.

Right back at you with the based immigrants. Stop complaining and savor the kebab!

I love kebab. I would let in tons of Turkish and Israeli immigrants. Should I post my immigration plan here again?

You literally were just worried about Tajiks because they are Muslim…but you are good with Turks? Help me understand your stupidity please.

Did you not catch the part where I talked about cultural Westernization and specifically listed Turkey as a Westernized country?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Ftr Haley/Ryan, I am not a Tajik, I am a Muhajir.

Now, based on on earlier statements of being skeptical of people coming from predominantly Muslim countries and telling jojoju that communitarian values are a net negative for this country, can you tell me straight to my face that my family shouldn't have been allowed to immigrate here?

Unless there is some other reason to let your family in (ie being really skilled in some particular field), no, I would probably not allow your family to immigrate here.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Ftr Haley/Ryan, I am not a Tajik, I am a Muhajir.

Now, based on on earlier statements of being skeptical of people coming from predominantly Muslim countries and telling jojoju that communitarian values are a net negative for this country, can you tell me straight to my face that my family shouldn't have been allowed to immigrate here?

Unless there is some other reason to let your family in (ie being really skilled in some particular field), no, I would probably not allow your family to immigrate here.

Thank you for your honesty

And now, kindly, go f**k yourself  

[Libertas Vel Mors]

-Snip-

You still have yet to answer my question. What exactly about being Tajik makes you skeptical on the prospects of their ability to immigrate and eventually integrate here other than just some vibes of them being culturally different than mainstream American culture?

You haven't yet asked that question.

I am broadly skeptical because Tajikistan is a predominantly Muslim country without a market economy or substantial Western cultural influence (I don't believe the Soviets Westernized Tajikistan, despite their rule there: some Westernization surely did occur, but nothing on the scale of, say, Turkey). I see little reason to assume given those factors that Tajik immigrants would assimilate at a comparable degree or rate to other immigrants we could prioritize instead. I am, however, open to counter-arguments, and I will freely admit that while my knowledge of Tajikistan is greater than your average layman, it is by no means deep.

Seeing as if People often flee to the US, for better opporunties, wouldn't that mean that they believe in a market economy in practice ?


What's the attraction of America ? The American Dream. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion.


Tajikstan has none of that. So people come here for that reason. As for the Muslim part, Most muslims in Tajikstan, are Muslims in name only, and the Government enforces state secularism, which is the total opposite of American Religious Freedom.

All of those are attractions of America, but plenty of people will always be attracted to wealth and opportunity without appreciating the values of the country they are immigrating to, so I don't accept the logic that all immigrants to the US will share American values because they are choosing to immigrate here.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Ftr Haley/Ryan, I am not a Tajik, I am a Muhajir.

Now, based on on earlier statements of being skeptical of people coming from predominantly Muslim countries and telling jojoju that communitarian values are a net negative for this country, can you tell me straight to my face that my family shouldn't have been allowed to immigrate here?

Unless there is some other reason to let your family in (ie being really skilled in some particular field), no, I would probably not allow your family to immigrate here.

Kindly, go f**k yourself 

I don't say this to be rude. You asked me a question, and I answered honestly and in line with what I believe to be best policy, and with a response that I think is congruent with my previous statements. It is in no way a jab at you personally and if you want to argue in disagreement you are more than welcome to.

[jojoju1998]

 

-Snip-

You still have yet to answer my question. What exactly about being Tajik makes you skeptical on the prospects of their ability to immigrate and eventually integrate here other than just some vibes of them being culturally different than mainstream American culture?

You haven't yet asked that question.

I am broadly skeptical because Tajikistan is a predominantly Muslim country without a market economy or substantial Western cultural influence (I don't believe the Soviets Westernized Tajikistan, despite their rule there: some Westernization surely did occur, but nothing on the scale of, say, Turkey). I see little reason to assume given those factors that Tajik immigrants would assimilate at a comparable degree or rate to other immigrants we could prioritize instead. I am, however, open to counter-arguments, and I will freely admit that while my knowledge of Tajikistan is greater than your average layman, it is by no means deep.

Seeing as if People often flee to the US, for better opporunties, wouldn't that mean that they believe in a market economy in practice ?


What's the attraction of America ? The American Dream. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion.


Tajikstan has none of that. So people come here for that reason. As for the Muslim part, Most muslims in Tajikstan, are Muslims in name only, and the Government enforces state secularism, which is the total opposite of American Religious Freedom.

All of those are attractions of America, but plenty of people will always be attracted to wealth and opportunity without appreciating the values of the country they are immigrating to, so I don't accept the logic that all immigrants to the US will share American values because they are choosing to immigrate here.

But Wealth and Opportunity IS American Culture, and American Values.

https://www.up.edu/iss/advising-services/american-values.html

The very idea of Individualism, Democratic Values, Freedom for Freedom's sake.


You also forget that the US soft culture is so widespread all over the world. Even in countries like Tajikstan. People see America, and they see an ideal, and they want a piece of it.


Here's a Russian Version of City of Stars from the Movie La La Land.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUZ50vJ3Mgo

Speaking of which, another example is Hollywood. People glamourize Hollywood, and the American values it promotes.

[jojoju1998]

1. Vietnamese People are not East Asian. They're South East Asian.



But okay; let's put it this way, the reason why some Asian groups assimilate better is because their cultural values are ironically not American. This allows them to blend in greater than say people from other places.

The Emphasis on Communitarianism, Tradition, family, work ethic, education, obedience, this ( especially the Communitarisn part ) runs counter to the American ideas of individualism, liberty,


And yet it allows them to assimilate faster into American Society. Learning English for example is paradoxically a communitarian virtue, to blend in, to remove that individualistic streak, to be like everyone else.

Yeah, there's a lot more to assimilation than just speaking English. As you yourself have pointed out, American culture is defined by individualism and a love of liberty, not communitarianism, and I do not want greater communitarianism in this country. If immigration from X group means those arrivals learn to speak English but otherwise make American society less freedom-loving than I view that as a severe negative, even if it can be cancelled out by other factors.

Yeah but what type of Freedom ?


My Vietnamese Immigrant parents are the most patriotic Americans, you will ever meet. Staunch Conservatives. Voted for President Trump.


They love the traditional definition of freedom. Freedom of Speech. Freedom of Religion especially. Business Freedom.


What they don't like is how that definition of freedom is being warped by some in the US, to push social changes on society.


So they find their traditional communitarian values to be under threat from a warped definition of individualism, that goes against what the Founders would agree with.

Like what?

As my Grandpa puts it, the " Radical Left", the " Marxists" aka the Democratic Party wants to warp individualism to fundamentally change the country. Like how the Communists did in Vietnam.


The increasingly lack of respect for parents, for Authority, the Church. The lack of respect for property rights, the market economy. Radical changes in social values such as marriage, sanctity of life.


He also rants against the " cultural marxism" of the American Universities.

[jojoju1998]

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigrants-recognize-american-greatness-immigrants#patriotic-assimilation


This study shows that Immigrants are often times more patriotic than native born Americans.

Do you ever wonder why the democratic voter base is getting increasingly white



Do you assume that people like my parents are not " conservative " or " assimilated " enough ? Are they less patriotic than say a white liberal lawyer in the Bay Area ?

1. This poll finds that "Citizen Immigrants" have a slightly higher rate of saying America is the greatest country than native-born Americans. There is no group breakdown, however. Given that my whole point revolves around the idea that we can optimize immigration by considering culture, this is non-responsive.

2. It isn't. The bases of both parties have gotten less white as America has diversified over the past decades.

4. I don't know your parents, but I think you've said your parents are conservative Vietnamese of Chinese ancestry? I would definitely assume your parents are more patriotic than your average Bay Area lawyer, and Vietnamese refugees during the post-Vietnam era are definitely immigrants I would have let in.

My parents are not of Chinese ancestry. They hate China. And " Chinese " Communism.

[KaiserDave]

Lots of 1920s Klansmen here

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

That's a pretty big diss to 4 of his 5 children.

[Stuart98]

not sure why y'all kept arguing with the white nationalist after he implicitly admitted to being one, that would not have struck me as a productive activity and reading through these messages I do not think it was a productive activity. Like, a few years ago when the south african I used to play planetary annihilation with said he thought the end of apartheid was a mistake I simply did not say another word to him again