Why did Putin invade Ukraine? It's not what you think.

[Red Velvet]

I don’t really understand why people are fighting when both things can be true simultaneously. Like, I don’t get why people insist in treating this as a black or white geopolitical situation like they were in a Marvel movie.

A) Russia is an expansionist and military power which has the mindset that respect is conquered through wars and land grabbing.

B) Russia has been marginalized after the collapse of Soviet Union. It had a brief attempt towards liberalism and was still humiliated by the West, never treated as part of the same club.

Combine those two things and you have the current scenario. If someone wanted to provoke a psychopath, the psycho will stay being a psycho, but can you say the person who provoked a reaction out of them was all that innocent? Course not.

[Aurelius2]

I don’t really understand why people are fighting when both things can be true simultaneously. Like, I don’t get why people insist in treating this as a black or white geopolitical situation like they were in a Marvel movie.

A) Russia is an expansionist and military power which has the mindset that respect is conquered through wars and land grabbing.

B) Russia has been marginalized after the collapse of Soviet Union. It had a brief attempt towards liberalism and was still humiliated by the West, never treated as part of the same club.

Combine those two things and you have the current scenario. If someone wanted to provoke a psychopath, the psycho will stay being a psycho, but can you say the person who provoked a reaction out of them was all that innocent? Course not.

1. Maybe Russia should stop being so awful then.
2. Ukraine did nothing to "provoke" Russia.

And I know you're going to respond with blah blah global south blah blah third world blah, but maybe the "global south" should simply stop sucking so bad.

[Hindsight was 2020]

You can tell how upset Russia is about NATO by the fact they never mention it to their domestic audience when they’re trying to justify the war.

[Red Velvet]

I don’t really understand why people are fighting when both things can be true simultaneously. Like, I don’t get why people insist in treating this as a black or white geopolitical situation like they were in a Marvel movie.

A) Russia is an expansionist and military power which has the mindset that respect is conquered through wars and land grabbing.

B) Russia has been marginalized after the collapse of Soviet Union. It had a brief attempt towards liberalism and was still humiliated by the West, never treated as part of the same club.

Combine those two things and you have the current scenario. If someone wanted to provoke a psychopath, the psycho will stay being a psycho, but can you say the person who provoked a reaction out of them was all that innocent? Course not.

1. Maybe Russia should stop being so awful then.
2. Ukraine did nothing to "provoke" Russia.

And I know you're going to respond with blah blah global south blah blah third world blah, but maybe the "global south" should simply stop sucking so bad.

Well, if you happen to think everyone sucks outside USA + Europe + White Anglos, don’t be surprised when people don’t want to hang around you as much lol

This attitude is why so many people understand Russia’s position and have some level of sympathy towards it even if they don’t really agree with what they’re doing.

The geopolitical marginalization of Russia since the 90s (way before 2014) is something that the ~global south~ can inherently identify with on a visceral level. That’s the CORE sentiment that facilitates somewhat of an identification with Russia, the fact that just like us they’re not welcomed into the club, even if the reasons for that are different.

[Aurelius2]

I don’t really understand why people are fighting when both things can be true simultaneously. Like, I don’t get why people insist in treating this as a black or white geopolitical situation like they were in a Marvel movie.

A) Russia is an expansionist and military power which has the mindset that respect is conquered through wars and land grabbing.

B) Russia has been marginalized after the collapse of Soviet Union. It had a brief attempt towards liberalism and was still humiliated by the West, never treated as part of the same club.

Combine those two things and you have the current scenario. If someone wanted to provoke a psychopath, the psycho will stay being a psycho, but can you say the person who provoked a reaction out of them was all that innocent? Course not.

1. Maybe Russia should stop being so awful then.
2. Ukraine did nothing to "provoke" Russia.

And I know you're going to respond with blah blah global south blah blah third world blah, but maybe the "global south" should simply stop sucking so bad.

blah blah blah blah blah global south blah

Called it!

Your own president met with Zelensky very recently. Maybe you could learn something from that.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Putin did it because he saw Biden as weak.

[dead0man]

I want to look at both sides to the story. The more I read the more I get a larger picture of why this war is going on.

good for you

There's an interesting historical background to it, but nobody is talking about that. It's just good-guy/bad-guy mentality I see going on.

what is the "interesting historical background" that nobody is talking about?

The West is just as aggressive as Russia in meddling in the affairs of other countries.

sometimes

We are meddling in the affairs of Ukraine as we speak.

sure, but nowhere near as much as Russia is.  Do you think it's ok because Russia is close?  Do Ukrainians get no say in the matter?

And it's not even about Ukraine, it's about creating a strategic border with Russia so we can do whatever it is we think we need to do to "defeat" them.

what?  Why?  We have already defeated Russia.  I can get behind the idea that they were not defeated enough and I can certainly understand why they don't think they were ever defeated, but it doesn't matter.  They lost.

I don't know what the West hopes to gain by that, but we are meddling in the affairs of Ukraine nonetheless. And it's under the guise that Russia sprung this unjust war on Ukraine for no reason, so for humanitarian reasons we have to retaliate.

yes

So the US and its allies are pumping money and artillery into Ukraine to fight their war with Russia. And the American public's interest is waning. We have needs of our own we need addressing. We don't care about Ukraine's problems anymore. Politicians need to look at the sentiment of the people they supposedly represent and start bringing the war to a close.

do you have a cite for this?  The latest poll on the matter I can find (and all the earlier ones) show general American support for assisting Ukraine.  I know our pro Russian knuckleheads love to say things like this and have since day one, and they've been wrong every time. (about everything, which doesn't make any sense to me.  I can understand being wrong about something and keeping quiet about it so as not find out you're wrong (ya know, like  toddler) but to repeatedly publicly be completely proven wrong sounds like torture to me, yet they persist saying insane things, it's all very strange.)

[BlueSwan]

What really concerns me is that some of the younger generations in the west have grown up basically thinking that war is an impossibility, when infact the exact opposite is true. History has taught us that lasting peace is an impossibility. It is ONLY because of the strong western alliance and the leadership of that alliance by the US that we have had peace in the West for nearly 80 years. If we fail to put narcissistic dictators like Putin in their place when they rear their ugly expansionist heads, the peace is gone and if we lose this we lose the West and the world order that the west has built. It's not going to be pretty. For anybody living in the west, there is no alternative to a strong NATO alliance and there is no alternative to supporting Ukraine in their fight against Putin.

[DaleCooper]

What really concerns me is that some of the younger generations in the west have grown up basically thinking that war is an impossibility, when infact the exact opposite is true. History has taught us that lasting peace is an impossibility. It is ONLY because of the strong western alliance and the leadership of that alliance by the US that we have had peace in the West for nearly 80 years. If we fail to put narcissistic dictators like Putin in their place when they rear their ugly expansionist heads, the peace is gone and if we lose this we lose the West and the world order that the west has built. It's not going to be pretty. For anybody living in the west, there is no alternative to a strong NATO alliance and there is no alternative to supporting Ukraine in their fight against Putin.

It is a direct result of piss poor education.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Is someone in Year of Our Lord 2023 acting like this take is a hitherto-unknown revelation? Do you eant my tankie uncle's email address?

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

"Our"

AL avatar.

[oldtimer]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Everytime I hear that I'm reminded that the arc of history bends towards a trash can.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Honestly I don’t care if we’d act like Russia , if Canada made an alliance with China because like Dule said we are good and Russia/China is bad .

Also the fact is Ukraine was never gonna get into NATO so that justification was a lie

[Badger]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Gang rape by policy and kidnapping tens of thousands of children from their parents is awesome! History will be on our side! Uncle Vlad told me so himself!

[It’s so Joever]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

[Frodo]

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

You are a terrible person.

And/or a troll on a mission to make Putin simps look as terrible as possible.  His positions are so clownish that I question his sincerity.  

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

[GoTfan]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

You are a uniquely hateful human being.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

That's all you know how to do, shut people up for questioning your delusional views. Just three weeks ago, the UN again ruled out that there is evidence of genocide in Ukraine. I'm just asking you to tell me a single country, a single organization that says there is genocide in Ukraine. You don't have it, because they don't exist.

[GoTfan]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

That's all you know how to do, shut people up for questioning your delusional views. Just three weeks ago, the UN again ruled out that there is evidence of genocide in Ukraine. I'm just asking you to tell me a single country, a single organization that says there is genocide in Ukraine. You don't have it, because they don't exist.

The UN has form on not wanting to use the term 'genocide' because that requires the UN to act.

Just ask Romeo Dallaire.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

[It’s so Joever]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

Do you regret posting the stuff you did about Andriy .


You are actually worse than Russian Bear because Russian Bear was actually also effected by the invasion while you are just a keyboard warrior who bullied a poster whose life could be threatened by the invasion.

[It’s so Joever]

Also what is your stance on Kosovo, BigSerg?