Why did Putin invade Ukraine? It's not what you think.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

Haven't you earned today's paycheck yet comrade Ivan?

[Hindsight was 2020]

Russia was the one actually shelling the Donbas for 8 years as seen by Russia’s own propaganda that highlighted how safe the Russia controlled parts of the Donbas was but don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative Serg

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

[Continential]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

cool story bro

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

You're actually trying to equivocate about a brutal invasion 💀 You are the biggest embarrassment on the site right now. I felt bad about what people were saying about you but you're more than happy to see Ukrainians die for your dumb narrative. Delete your account. Dipsh**t.

[BigSerg]

Russia was the one actually shelling the Donbas for 8 years as seen by Russia’s own propaganda that highlighted how safe the Russia controlled parts of the Donbas was but don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative Serg

There are people here with this ridiculous and out of touch with reality thinking. I have debated with countless pro-Ukrainians on Twitter, none of them are able to tell me something as delusional as this. But, surprisingly, this is what they believe here.

[KaiserDave]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

People from Crimea? Which people?

The Tatars who attempted an ill-fated counter coup against the Russian astroturfed coup d'tat in 2014 chanting "Allahu Akbar" and "Slava Ukraini" to stop the return of the imperialists who had deported and brutalized them?

Or the decadent Russian tourist population that thinks liking the beach makes them immune to the consequences of their actions.

Everything else you are saying is completely fictitious but I don't care enough to reply I just hope everyone else knows it is made up.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

You're actually trying to equivocate about a brutal invasion 💀 You are the biggest embarrassment on the site right now. I felt bad about what people were saying about you but you're more than happy to see Ukrainians die for your dumb narrative. Delete your account. Dipsh**t.

So, you're not going to Ukraine? Let's up the ante, we'll both go, I'll pay for the whole trip along with a week's stay. I'm serious, I'm not kidding.

[DaleCooper]

BigSerg's application to be on a season of My 600-lb Life was denied because he is too fat.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Guys did you know Serg knows people from the Donbas that are totally not made up and validate all here fascist pro Russia takes?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

Shut up.

Shut up.

Shut the f**k up you absolute clown.

Have you talked to people from Crimea, to people from Donbass? Please, you show yourselves for what you really are. Ignorant people who know absolutely nothing about the situation in Ukraine. You deny any kind of evidence, you deny history, you deny anything that doesn't fit your hypocritical narrative. Let's do one thing, let's go to Ukraine, I have friends who would give you free accommodation in Donbass, live with the people and in a month come back. do you dare?

People from Crimea? Which people?

The Tatars who attempted an ill-fated counter coup against the Russian astroturfed coup d'tat in 2014 chanting "Allahu Akbar" and "Slava Ukraini" to stop the return of the imperialists who had deported and brutalized them?

Or the decadent Russian tourist population that thinks liking the beach makes them immune to the consequences of their actions.

Everything else you are saying is completely fictitious but I don't care enough to reply I just hope everyone else knows it is made up.

I am referring to the Russian population of Crimea, which has been a majority in the territory since 1860. It's all made up, but none of you want to go and verify it. I am literally offering you free accommodation, pay for a travel stay, but you do nothing but insult me and call me a liar.

[BigSerg]

Guys did you know Serg knows people from the Donbas that are totally not made up and validate all here fascist pro Russia takes?

Tell me the truth, did you even know that Crimea was ceded to Ukraine without any opinion of its population in 1954?

[It’s so Joever]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

[It’s so Joever]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

I can’t comment on guerilla activity, truth be told the environment is hazy and while we have anecdotes of guerilla activity, most of it is kept on the low and even getting accurate coverage behind the frontline is near impossible. I won’t be feeding into the unverified rumors that surround war watching communities.

As for Pro-Russian parties, pretty simple honestly. There still is a Russophone identity and these parties were the standard bearers of that identity. That does not mean at all such regions actively want to be annexed by Russia, rather they just want to keep speaking Russian (or did until Putin bombed their towns)

[KaiserDave]

Remember everyone, no matter what happens today or tomorrow, Russia will never conquer Kyiv.

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

I can’t comment on guerilla activity, truth be told the environment is hazy and while we have anecdotes of guerilla activity, most of it is kept on the low and even getting accurate coverage behind the frontline is near impossible. I won’t be feeding into the unverified rumors that surround war watching communities.

As for Pro-Russian parties, pretty simple honestly. There still is a Russophone identity and these parties were the standard bearers of that identity. That does not mean at all such regions actively want to be annexed by Russia, rather they just want to keep speaking Russian (or did until Putin bombed their towns)

There was this level of insanity with the Iraq war and with Vietnam before it, then everybody realized they were fighting for nothing. You have to analyze things. Also, you can look up common Russian names, look them up on Twitter and see the accounts of people from Donbass. I mean accounts that don't even talk about the war. So talk to them and forge your own opinion, away from propaganda.

[It’s so Joever]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

I can’t comment on guerilla activity, truth be told the environment is hazy and while we have anecdotes of guerilla activity, most of it is kept on the low and even getting accurate coverage behind the frontline is near impossible. I won’t be feeding into the unverified rumors that surround war watching communities.

As for Pro-Russian parties, pretty simple honestly. There still is a Russophone identity and these parties were the standard bearers of that identity. That does not mean at all such regions actively want to be annexed by Russia, rather they just want to keep speaking Russian (or did until Putin bombed their towns)

There was this level of insanity with the Iraq war and with Vietnam before it, then everybody realized they were fighting for nothing. You have to analyze things. Also, you can look up common Russian names, look them up on Twitter and see the accounts of people from Donbass. I mean accounts that don't even talk about the war. So talk to them and forge your own opinion, away from propaganda.

I do not think partisans would exactly be willing to share information on guerilla activities with some random guy on Twitter…

[Ferguson97]

There was this level of insanity with the Iraq war and with Vietnam before it, then everybody realized they were fighting for nothing. You have to analyze things. Also, you can look up common Russian names, look them up on Twitter and see the accounts of people from Donbass. I mean accounts that don't even talk about the war. So talk to them and forge your own opinion, away from propaganda.

To be clear... you're invoking Iraq and Vietnam as a defense of Russian's invasion of Ukraine?

[BigSerg]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Kowtowing to Putin is a policy stance I can’t wrap my head around.
Yeah, Ukraine has flaws, but this is genocide occurring.
So I mean, saying it was justified is pretty interesting…

There is no genocide. Even with Ukrainian diplomatic attempts, all serious organizations, all countries (even the most delusional anti-Russian ones like Poland) have not said it is genocide. Are there war crimes? Yes, I don't deny them, but also by Ukraine.

What do we call what Ukraine did for 8 years in the Donbass? I mean, you can dismiss it all as Russian propaganda, but then you have their leaders, literally caught on video, calling for literal genocide. The amazing thing about the pro Ukraine people on this forum is that they deny, ignore or dismiss all evidence of what has been going on for EIGHT YEARS in the Donbass.

Ask any of those pro Ukrainian people if they have talked to people in eastern Ukraine, if they know their views. These are people who truly believe that the Crimeans were "forced" to join Russia.

This would be like if Mexico invaded the RGV because Spanish is the default language there. The Russian case for invasion was built upon the false premise language=state when Russophonic Ukrainians across the country have made clear since Putin’s killing mission that they don’t want this, even switching to speaking Ukrainian out of spite. There was no legitimate referendum held in Donbas, Luhansk, or Crimea and while I do think Crimea would probably vote in favor of annexation in a fair vote, the massive irregularities in the election should be enough. Then again you probably believe Russia has free and fair elections.

Again I don’t understand why you are pulling this stuff? Is it because you have a friend in Donbas (you mentioned that?) Like help us understand why you are like this.

I have friends in Donbass, I don't hide it, I have always mentioned it, but nobody cares. Honestly, think a bit, the pro-Russians won literally every election in eastern Ukraine until 2014, recent polls, in NOT OCCUPIED territory show that pro-Russian parties are still winning in those territories. do you really believe that those "pro-Ukrainian Russians" are in the majority? I remind you that at the beginning of the invasion there was the myth of "massive guerrillas" against the occupiers. where are those guerrillas? why is there hardly any civilian subversion in occupied territory?

What about you?
Have you ever considered your small group of friends online are not representative of the population of Eastern Ukraine?

Again, tell me where are the massive guerrillas against Russia, tell me why the pro-Russian parties were still winning before their illegalization. Unlike me, you have considered, just for a moment, that everything you believe is a lie?

I can’t comment on guerilla activity, truth be told the environment is hazy and while we have anecdotes of guerilla activity, most of it is kept on the low and even getting accurate coverage behind the frontline is near impossible. I won’t be feeding into the unverified rumors that surround war watching communities.

As for Pro-Russian parties, pretty simple honestly. There still is a Russophone identity and these parties were the standard bearers of that identity. That does not mean at all such regions actively want to be annexed by Russia, rather they just want to keep speaking Russian (or did until Putin bombed their towns)

There was this level of insanity with the Iraq war and with Vietnam before it, then everybody realized they were fighting for nothing. You have to analyze things. Also, you can look up common Russian names, look them up on Twitter and see the accounts of people from Donbass. I mean accounts that don't even talk about the war. So talk to them and forge your own opinion, away from propaganda.

I do not think partisans would exactly be willing to share information on guerilla activities with some random guy on Twitter…

I'm not talking about partisans, I'm talking about normal people. Despite what most believe, there are many people who are moving on or at least trying to get on with their lives. But do it with an open mind and not with the "they are all Russian propagandists" mentality. I will stop posting here, because no matter what I say, the obvious trolls will continue to insult me no matter what.

If anyone is really interested in knowing my views, they can send me a private message. I will gladly, without insulting, without wishing death to anyone, tell them what I think.

[DaleCooper]

BigSerg is so unhygienic that even the flies avoid him. Instead of blaming himself, he thinks that this is everyone else's fault.

[Ferguson97]

I'm not talking about partisans, I'm talking about normal people. Despite what most believe, there are many people who are moving on or at least trying to get on with their lives. But do it with an open mind and not with the "they are all Russian propagandists" mentality. I will stop posting here, because no matter what I say, the obvious trolls will continue to insult me no matter what.

If anyone is really interested in knowing my views, they can send me a private message. I will gladly, without insulting, without wishing death to anyone, tell them what I think.

Except the Ukranian people, right?

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

I am referring to the Russian population of Crimea, which has been a majority in the territory since 1860. It's all made up, but none of you want to go and verify it. I am literally offering you free accommodation, pay for a travel stay, but you do nothing but insult me and call me a liar.

Yes, they are the majority now because the infidels in Moscow have been deliberately trying to Russify and get rid of non-ethnic Russians for centuries now you dipsh**t

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I don’t really understand why people are fighting when both things can be true simultaneously. Like, I don’t get why people insist in treating this as a black or white geopolitical situation like they were in a Marvel movie.

A) Russia is an expansionist and military power which has the mindset that respect is conquered through wars and land grabbing.

B) Russia has been marginalized after the collapse of Soviet Union. It had a brief attempt towards liberalism and was still humiliated by the West, never treated as part of the same club.

Combine those two things and you have the current scenario. If someone wanted to provoke a psychopath, the psycho will stay being a psycho, but can you say the person who provoked a reaction out of them was all that innocent? Course not.

1. Maybe Russia should stop being so awful then.
2. Ukraine did nothing to "provoke" Russia.

And I know you're going to respond with blah blah global south blah blah third world blah, but maybe the "global south" should simply stop sucking so bad.

blah blah blah blah blah global south blah

Called it!

Your own president met with Zelensky very recently. Maybe you could learn something from that.

The hilarious thing about his "global south" blather is the one poster who takes it seriously is Tim Turner and multiple other posters also from the "global south" have said that he's full of sh!t.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I don’t really understand why people are fighting when both things can be true simultaneously. Like, I don’t get why people insist in treating this as a black or white geopolitical situation like they were in a Marvel movie.

A) Russia is an expansionist and military power which has the mindset that respect is conquered through wars and land grabbing.

B) Russia has been marginalized after the collapse of Soviet Union. It had a brief attempt towards liberalism and was still humiliated by the West, never treated as part of the same club.

Combine those two things and you have the current scenario. If someone wanted to provoke a psychopath, the psycho will stay being a psycho, but can you say the person who provoked a reaction out of them was all that innocent? Course not.

1. Maybe Russia should stop being so awful then.
2. Ukraine did nothing to "provoke" Russia.

And I know you're going to respond with blah blah global south blah blah third world blah, but maybe the "global south" should simply stop sucking so bad.

blah blah blah blah blah global south blah

Called it!

Your own president met with Zelensky very recently. Maybe you could learn something from that.

The hilarious thing about his "global south" blather is the one poster who takes it seriously is Tim Turner and multiple other posters also from the "global south" have said that he's full of sh!t.

On the whole Global South, BRICS thing, I have family members IRL who take it seriously and follow this stuff; you ought to understand that my interest in the potential for it is significantly driven partly by the fact I am the most nakedly-pro-American hegemony person within that group (a controversial take in the Muslim community...) and I'm deeply concerned by what one could call "systemic maintainence" (the Trump years massively aged me). I'm also probably significantly more fopo-minded than I was five years ago. And I've read a fair bit of history...more than in 2017/2018.

This does not mean that the "Global South" is a hugely cohesive group in my eyes. But it does mean that as a concept, it's worth taking seriously. It is, and in fact Biden's administration has taken steps that strongly, strongly suggest it does as well, such as trying to reach out to the African Union. Nonetheless, it's still just only part of the picture to understanding the world as it exists today. RedVelvet, being Brazilian, comes from a country with a political class wedded to BRICS and Global South concepts; I happen to agree that he gets a lot of the mechanics for how the world works quite well, for different reasons. In fact, caution is part of preserving one's power (and arrogance on that front on part of the neocons in the 2000s is a good negative example of that), once I realized Ukraine wasn't going to be conquered straightforwardly by Russia, my views on how to handle it massively changed. (I did express total certainty in the invasion happening, in which I was 100% right about)