Why did Putin invade Ukraine? It's not what you think.

[Hermit For Peace]

What a surprise the user who's been claiming all year that Zelensky is the one who should be tried as a war criminal, not Putin, is now blaming the West for Russia's atrocities, just like it's an abused victim's fault for getting hit for speaking out of turn. It's a good new username however, it fits quite well.

So then I went and did some research into the background of why Putin invaded Ukraine in the first place, and now I think Zelensky is just a dupe, a pawn in the scheme of the larger players in this political drama. People change their view on things once they do some reading on the subject. I no longer think of Zelensky as a war criminal. Now I think he's just a patsy.

[Hermit For Peace]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

It does justify Russia's concern over the West's attempts to incorporate Ukraine as part of their network of influence to try and defeat Russia.

Cool thanks. Still gonna keep killing Russians though.

Go ahead and kill anyone you want, but just know why you are doing it. And be justified.

[DrScholl]

The bottom line is Putin is an expansionist nutcase and that's all their is to it. The attempts to legitimize the invasion are nothing short of stupid.

[President Johnson]

The reason Putin invaded Ukraine is his desire to prevent the spread of Western democracies in his presumed "sphere of influence" (which doesn't exist anymore, though he still has a cold war mindset). The Western and European model scares him to the bone because he's afraid that a successful Ukraine prompts an uprise in Russia once his own people see that Ukrainians are way better off with a free-market economy and the rule of law. The concern over NATO was always nonsense and it was always obvious. It's just Kremlin shills and other apologists who continue to live in denial. Putin almost certainly is more afraid of the EU than he is of NATO.

Furthermore, he justifies the war with an obscure obsession over history, in which he believes - what has factually been debunked by all serious academics - that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine belong together in a "Greater Russian Empire" or union state. Subsequently he doesn't respect their own sovereignty as he sees himself on a mission to restore said empire.

Do you have information to back this up? In the article I posted, the author took us through step by step events as they happened, and scoured for evidence into the reasoning behind the actions of all the players in the scenario. So I ask you, where did your information come from and do you have evidence to back it up?

Numerous publications and interviews from established history professors on Eastern Europe, mainly from Germany. Like this report on DW or this Eastern Europe history professor. It's in German, but I'm sure with some research you find additional material in English like this: NATO Enlargement didn't cause Russia's aggression or One. More. Time. It’s not about NATO. Heck, even Prigozhin admitted the war wasn't about NATO.

Furthermore, it's just common-sense. NATO's forces in Europe are far, far too small to pose any serious threat to Russia at all. In the Baltics, there were like 5k soldiers before the wars, which is nothing against the size of Russia's military. There was also the NATO-Russia founding act established in 1997 to launch a closer military cooperation and build up mutal trust. NATO never broke any rule of the charta, always invited Russian representatives to witness any NATO exercise to emphasize it wasn't an alliance against Russia. Not to mention the actual war in Ukraine in 2014 didn't even start because Kyiv was close to join the alliance. Merkel and Sarkozy in 2008 vetoed Bush's attempt to invite Ukraine, citing Russian concerns. The Maidan began after pro-Russia president Yanukovich withdrew from an agreement between Ukraine and the EU. Neither NATO nor the US had anything to do with it.

[John Dule]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

It does justify Russia's concern over the West's attempts to incorporate Ukraine as part of their network of influence to try and defeat Russia.

Cool thanks. Still gonna keep killing Russians though.

Go ahead and kill anyone you want, but just know why you are doing it. And be justified.

Womp womp. It's completely justified, and the only people who don't understand this are either braindead or literally on the Kremlin payroll.

[Hermit For Peace]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia’s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

It does justify Russia's concern over the West's attempts to incorporate Ukraine as part of their network of influence to try and defeat Russia.

Cool thanks. Still gonna keep killing Russians though.

Go ahead and kill anyone you want, but just know why you are doing it. And be justified.

Womp womp. It's completely justified, and the only people who don't understand this are either braindead or literally on the Kremlin payroll.

It may be so.

[Conservatopia]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia�s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Log off and go back upstairs. Your mom's calling you - seems you wet the bed again, incontinent pencil neck.

[KaiserDave]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia�s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Log off and go back upstairs. Your mom's calling you - seems you wet the bed again, incontinent pencil neck.

I think we need to destroy the internet Conservatopia. We should all return to the fields.

[7,052,770]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

[BigSerg]

The reason Putin invaded Ukraine is his desire to prevent the spread of Western democracies in his presumed "sphere of influence" (which doesn't exist anymore, though he still has a cold war mindset). The Western and European model scares him to the bone because he's afraid that a successful Ukraine prompts an uprise in Russia once his own people see that Ukrainians are way better off with a free-market economy and the rule of law. The concern over NATO was always nonsense and it was always obvious. It's just Kremlin shills and other apologists who continue to live in denial. Putin almost certainly is more afraid of the EU than he is of NATO.

Furthermore, he justifies the war with an obscure obsession over history, in which he believes - what has factually been debunked by all serious academics - that Russia, Belarus and Ukraine belong together in a "Greater Russian Empire" or union state. Subsequently he doesn't respect their own sovereignty as he sees himself on a mission to restore said empire.

Do you have information to back this up? In the article I posted, the author took us through step by step events as they happened, and scoured for evidence into the reasoning behind the actions of all the players in the scenario. So I ask you, where did your information come from and do you have evidence to back it up?

Numerous publications and interviews from established history professors on Eastern Europe, mainly from Germany. Like this report on DW or this Eastern Europe history professor. It's in German, but I'm sure with some research you find additional material in English like this: NATO Enlargement didn't cause Russia's aggression or One. More. Time. It’s not about NATO. Heck, even Prigozhin admitted the war wasn't about NATO.

Furthermore, it's just common-sense. NATO's forces in Europe are far, far too small to pose any serious threat to Russia at all. In the Baltics, there were like 5k soldiers before the wars, which is nothing against the size of Russia's military. There was also the NATO-Russia founding act established in 1997 to launch a closer military cooperation and build up mutal trust. NATO never broke any rule of the charta, always invited Russian representatives to witness any NATO exercise to emphasize it wasn't an alliance against Russia. Not to mention the actual war in Ukraine in 2014 didn't even start because Kyiv was close to join the alliance. Merkel and Sarkozy in 2008 vetoed Bush's attempt to invite Ukraine, citing Russian concerns. The Maidan began after pro-Russia president Yanukovich withdrew from an agreement between Ukraine and the EU. Neither NATO nor the US had anything to do with it.

Yeah, hahaha.

[BigSerg]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

Mexico has literally been threatened countless times with invasion. Cuba was literally pathetically invaded. Don't be a hypocrite and learn some history. The United States has participated in countless coups and political assassinations throughout Latin America over the past 100 years. Seriously, have you thought this through before writing this?

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

You are a terrible person.

[John Dule]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

It totally would. This is because we are good and China is bad.

[DrScholl]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

It totally would. This is because we are good and China is bad.

You can't invade countries based on their allies and still be good.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Ah so this war was caused by NATO. So NATO is why Putin put out on the eve of the war an 800 worded bowel movement going on about how Russians and Ukrainians are actually one ethnicity. NATO is why Russia kidnapped Ukrainian children and deported them to Russia and those who got returned reported that they’re sent to foster homes that tell them that the Ukrainian language and identity is fake and beat them into submission. NATO is why there are over a hundred cases of Ukrainian rescued pows who were found to of been castrated so “they couldn’t reproduce”. All this time I thought these and other examples showed this war was about a Russia pan-Slavic version of blood and soil. It turns out it’s actually because the nation with one of the world’s biggest nuclear deterrents legitimately thought an alliance made of nations with many who were economically dependent on Russian gas was going to invade them

[7,052,770]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

Mexico has literally been threatened countless times with invasion. Cuba was literally pathetically invaded. Don't be a hypocrite and learn some history. The United States has participated in countless coups and political assassinations throughout Latin America over the past 100 years. Seriously, have you thought this through before writing this?

What about my posting history makes you think that I would condone those actions by the US decades ago? Those were wrong. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is wrong.

[7,052,770]

If Russia didn't want Ukraine choosing to ally with NATO countries, they should have been a better friend to Ukraine over the last 3 decades. (3 centuries arguably.)

Like, if the United States bungled its relationship with Canada so badly that Canada decided to become a close friend and ally of China, no we wouldn't like it, but it wouldn't come close to justifying us launching an invasion to annex Canada.

It totally would. This is because we are good and China is bad.

I'm making an inherent assumption that if our actions drive Canada into an alliance with China, that must mean we've become bad.

[junior chįmp]

Countries willingly choosing to join NATO does not justify Russia�s invasion and attempted conquest of Ukraine. A swing and a miss. Thanks for playing.

The invasion of Ukraine was fully justified since the 2014 coup, it remains justified and history will be on our side

Log off and go back upstairs. Your mom's calling you - seems you wet the bed again, incontinent pencil neck.

Lol

[WalterWhite]

That take is blatant Russian propaganda. Putin's stated reason for invading Ukraine was because of "NATO expansionism" or "Western imperialism".

1) None of the Eastern European countries were forced to join NATO. The three post-Soviet countries that are currently NATO members (Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia) all expressed or demonstrated interest in joining NATO. The leader of Lithuania even wrote a letter expressing his desire to join NATO.

2) The addition of Eastern European countries has proven to be no national security threat for Russia. Before the Russian invasion of Georgia, there were four NATO members that bordered Russia: Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. Additionally, the Kaliningrad Oblast is entirely surrounded by NATO members. Despite this, Russian territorial integrity was intact, and the Kaliningrad Oblast has remained secure Russian territory.

[Ferguson97]

"Invading Ukraine is self-defense because of NATO expansion" is a terrible argument, full stop. It's deeply unserious, and nobody who says it actually believes it.

What happened to you, hermit? Unless I'm confusing you with another CA avatar, you used to be normal a few months ago, but then like a light switch, something changed.

[WalterWhite]

Additionally, Europe is only turning on Russia BECAUSE OF Putin's hawkishness towards Europe. It is the reason Finland, a country bordering Russia, recently joined NATO. It is the reason Serbia, a long-time Russian ally, is sending weapons to Ukraine. If Putin REALLY wanted to build sustainable influence in Europe, he should have not been so hawkish and antagonistic towards the continent.

That is not to mention that the War in Ukraine is unjustifiable, given that Ukraine never attacked Russia in any shape or form prior to February 2022.

Furthermore, Putin's other "justification" for the war (liberating ethnic Russians from the Ukrainian government) is NEARLY IDENTICAL to the "justification" Hitler gave for invading Czechoslovakia.

No matter how you slice the events leading up to the war, Putin is at fault.

[Alben Barkley]

Additionally, Europe is only turning on Russia BECAUSE OF Putin's hawkishness towards Europe. It is the reason Finland, a country bordering Russia, recently joined NATO. It is the reason Serbia, a long-time Russian ally, is sending weapons to Ukraine. If Putin REALLY wanted to build sustainable influence in Europe, he should have not been so hawkish and antagonistic towards the continent.

That is not to mention that the War in Ukraine is unjustifiable, given that Ukraine never attacked Russia in any shape or form prior to February 2022.

Furthermore, Putin's other "justification" for the war (liberating ethnic Russians from the Ukrainian government) is NEARLY IDENTICAL to the "justification" Hitler gave for invading Czechoslovakia.

No matter how you slice the events leading up to the war, Putin is at fault.

And Poland. And pretty much everything. Irredentism is cancer. Absolute lunatics pretend imaginary lines on a map containing imaginary ethnic groups justify committing mass atrocities and genocide. And then you have people like OP who defend them out of pure idiocy. I can't even wrap my head around it.

[PSOL]

Putin invaded Ukraine because they lost 1+ million people thanks to a poor pandemic response and is trying to get that population back and then some. What threw a wrench in this plan is that Russia's military failed to take Kiev.

[Hermit For Peace]

"Invading Ukraine is self-defense because of NATO expansion" is a terrible argument, full stop. It's deeply unserious, and nobody who says it actually believes it.

What happened to you, hermit? Unless I'm confusing you with another CA avatar, you used to be normal a few months ago, but then like a light switch, something changed.

Do you mean "normal" because I thought like the general view of others on the forum? That became boring. I want to look at both sides to the story. The more I read the more I get a larger picture of why this war is going on. There's an interesting historical background to it, but nobody is talking about that. It's just good-guy/bad-guy mentality I see going on.

The West is just as aggressive as Russia in meddling in the affairs of other countries. We are meddling in the affairs of Ukraine as we speak. And it's not even about Ukraine, it's about creating a strategic border with Russia so we can do whatever it is we think we need to do to "defeat" them.

I don't know what the West hopes to gain by that, but we are meddling in the affairs of Ukraine nonetheless. And it's under the guise that Russia sprung this unjust war on Ukraine for no reason, so for humanitarian reasons we have to retaliate.

So the US and its allies are pumping money and artillery into Ukraine to fight their war with Russia. And the American public's interest is waning. We have needs of our own we need addressing. We don't care about Ukraine's problems anymore. Politicians need to look at the sentiment of the people they supposedly represent and start bringing the war to a close.

[jojoju1998]

"Invading Ukraine is self-defense because of NATO expansion" is a terrible argument, full stop. It's deeply unserious, and nobody who says it actually believes it.

What happened to you, hermit? Unless I'm confusing you with another CA avatar, you used to be normal a few months ago, but then like a light switch, something changed.

Do you mean "normal" because I thought like the general view of others on the forum? That became boring. I want to look at both sides to the story. The more I read the more I get a larger picture of why this war is going on. There's an interesting historical background to it, but nobody is talking about that. It's just good-guy/bad-guy mentality I see going on.

The West is just as aggressive as Russia in meddling in the affairs of other countries. We are meddling in the affairs of Ukraine as we speak. And it's not even about Ukraine, it's about creating a strategic border with Russia so we can do whatever it is we think we need to do to "defeat" them.

I don't know what the West hopes to gain by that, but we are meddling in the affairs of Ukraine nonetheless. And it's under the guise that Russia sprung this unjust war on Ukraine for no reason, so for humanitarian reasons we have to retaliate.

So the US and its allies are pumping money and artillery into Ukraine to fight their war with Russia. And the American public's interest is waning. We have needs of our own we need addressing. We don't care about Ukraine's problems anymore. Politicians need to look at the sentiment of the people they supposedly represent and start bringing the war to a close.

We can literally create a Universal Healthcare System, have free college, fix homelessness, AND help Ukraine fight off Russia.

The US Economy is big enough to do both.