NY: Convicted Felon Donald Trump!

[brucejoel99]

Key point - it will come down the corroborating evidence, which there is quite a bit of

This is very good for Trump.
Key parts of Cohen's testimony are not corroborated by any other evidence.
The most important part is Cohen's testimony that Trump told him to fix it and knew about it all the time.

On the contrary, there was a boatload of corroborating evidence.  This is wishcasting.

What is the corroborating evidence that Trump knew about the meeting between Cohen and Weisselberg?

They need corroborating evidence tending to connect the defendant to the charged crime, not of each & every individual aspect of an accomplice's testimony.

The charged crime requires that Trump knew of the agreement between Wesselberg and Cohen and knew that before the election. Therefore, Trumps participation in Cohen's scheme before the election is key to establishing guilt in this case.

We all know that. You're talking past us now. You're the only one who, for some reason, seems to think that means the jurors need to be shown physical corroboration of everything Cohen testified to in order for his credibility to remain legally sufficient enough to sustain a conviction; no, they just need corroborating evidence connecting the defendant to the charged crime that may or may not assist in sustaining the accomplice-witness' credibility with the jury. You're acting like Cohen was the prosecution's only witness & not 1 of 20.

He was the only witness establishing the key facts.
Without him there is no proof Trump knew about the payments to Stormy Daniels before the election.

Correct, & it is now up to the jury to apply the full picture to determine whether or not they believe that, as a matter of fact, Michael Cohen credibly told them the truth. Crucially, in order to apply the full picture, they first have to be given a full picture to apply, which you seem to fail to understand is mutually exclusive from Michael Cohen's credibility being the prosecution's only basis here.

No updates in a while - are they on lunch?

Deliberating for just a little bit over 90 mins. now.

[Obama24]

Guilty on all charges, with 20 year minimum sentence for each, effective immediately without chance of appeal unless he steps down from running.

[soundchaser]

Guilty on all charges, with 20 year minimum sentence for each, effective immediately without chance of appeal unless he steps down from running.

Whole lotta delusion in this thread on either side of the issue.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I was on a jury in a felony trial where immediately after retiring to deliberate and choosing a foreperson, we did a secret ballot to gauge everyone's initial opinion.  The result was 6 Guilty, 1 Not Guilty, and 5 uncertain - they wanted to hear what the other jurors had to say.

After several hours of deliberations (about 6 I think), mostly quite civil but with a few heated exchanges, we returned a verdict of Not Guilty.  The final consensus was that there was a good chance the defendant had done the crime, but that the state had fallen well short of proving it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Obama24]

Guilty on all charges, with 20 year minimum sentence for each, effective immediately without chance of appeal unless he steps down from running.

Whole lotta delusion in this thread on either side of the issue.

Maybe if he had refused to run again, and not challenge Biden, he'd not be dying in prison. Oh well. You challenge Dark Brandon, you question him, you even dare to say he's wrong, you end up in the dungeon. Too bad, so sad, enjoy rotting in jail Trump. I hope truly they find charges against every single member of his family, even distant kin, next.

[Ljube]

I was on a jury in a felony trial where immediately after retiring to deliberate and choosing a foreperson, we did a secret ballot to gauge everyone's initial opinion.  The result was 6 Guilty, 1 Not Guilty, and 5 uncertain - they wanted to hear what the other jurors had to say.

After several hours of deliberations (about 6 I think), mostly quite civil but with a few heated exchanges, we returned a verdict of Not Guilty.  The final consensus was that there was a good chance the defendant had done the crime, but that the state had fallen well short of proving it beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think there is a good chance Trump has done the crime, but I also think the state has fallen short of proving it beyond a reasonable doubt.

[brucejoel99]

Guilty on all charges, with 20 year minimum sentence for each, effective immediately without chance of appeal unless he steps down from running.

Whole lotta delusion in this thread on either side of the issue.

Maybe if he had refused to run again, and not challenge Biden, he'd not be dying in prison. Oh well. You challenge Dark Brandon, you question him, you even dare to say he's wrong, you end up in the dungeon. Too bad, so sad, enjoy rotting in jail Trump. I hope truly they find charges against every single member of his family, even distant kin, next.

Aren't you the one who was lambasting ironic posts like this?

If they do rule the President has absolute immunity Dark Brandon needs to fully rise and save the country with his new power

https://twitter.com/_sn_n/status/1783656503745839130

It's almost like certain parts of the far left WANT the SC to rule in favor of immunity so Biden can become a dictator. Something something save democracy by destroying it, Dark Brandon, something something cult of personality.

If they do rule the President has absolute immunity Dark Brandon needs to fully rise and save the country with his new power

"I hate Trump, because he'd destroy democracy, but I also want Dark Brandon to destroy democracy."

[Obama24]

Guilty on all charges, with 20 year minimum sentence for each, effective immediately without chance of appeal unless he steps down from running.

Whole lotta delusion in this thread on either side of the issue.

Maybe if he had refused to run again, and not challenge Biden, he'd not be dying in prison. Oh well. You challenge Dark Brandon, you question him, you even dare to say he's wrong, you end up in the dungeon. Too bad, so sad, enjoy rotting in jail Trump. I hope truly they find charges against every single member of his family, even distant kin, next.

Aren't you the one who was lambasting ironic posts like these?

If they do rule the President has absolute immunity Dark Brandon needs to fully rise and save the country with his new power

https://twitter.com/_sn_n/status/1783656503745839130

It's almost like certain parts of the far left WANT the SC to rule in favor of immunity so Biden can become a dictator. Something something save democracy by destroying it, Dark Brandon, something something cult of personality.

If they do rule the President has absolute immunity Dark Brandon needs to fully rise and save the country with his new power

"I hate Trump, because he'd destroy democracy, but I also want Dark Brandon to destroy democracy."

Yep, and having that opinion got me barred from making threads for six months until after the election. I am trying to fall in line and toe the party line now.

[brucejoel99]

Guilty on all charges, with 20 year minimum sentence for each, effective immediately without chance of appeal unless he steps down from running.

Whole lotta delusion in this thread on either side of the issue.

Maybe if he had refused to run again, and not challenge Biden, he'd not be dying in prison. Oh well. You challenge Dark Brandon, you question him, you even dare to say he's wrong, you end up in the dungeon. Too bad, so sad, enjoy rotting in jail Trump. I hope truly they find charges against every single member of his family, even distant kin, next.

Aren't you the one who was lambasting ironic posts like these?

If they do rule the President has absolute immunity Dark Brandon needs to fully rise and save the country with his new power

https://twitter.com/_sn_n/status/1783656503745839130

It's almost like certain parts of the far left WANT the SC to rule in favor of immunity so Biden can become a dictator. Something something save democracy by destroying it, Dark Brandon, something something cult of personality.

If they do rule the President has absolute immunity Dark Brandon needs to fully rise and save the country with his new power

"I hate Trump, because he'd destroy democracy, but I also want Dark Brandon to destroy democracy."

Yep, and having that opinion got me barred from making threads for six months until after the election. I am trying to fall in line and toe the party line now.

Do you know the meaning of ironic/unironic &/or what the concept of a meme is?

[EJ24]

I think they will deliberate until at least Friday, maybe longer.


I'm expecting acquittal. So much of this case relies on Cohen, and despite the liberal establishment treating him like Jesus Christ, he's a scumbag and liar (the only people who Trump surrounds himself with), and I just don't think the jury will see him as credible. The prosecution also (in my opinion) failed to prove any serious crimes beyond a reasonable doubt.

You combine that with rumors of a Trump-friendly juror, and it's pretty obvious he's getting off here.

[Gass3268]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

[DrScholl]

I think they will deliberate until at least Friday, maybe longer.


I'm expecting acquittal. So much of this case relies on Cohen, and despite the liberal establishment treating him like Jesus Christ, he's a scumbag and liar (the only people who Trump surrounds himself with), and I just don't think the jury will see him as credible. The prosecution also (in my opinion) failed to prove any serious crimes beyond a reasonable doubt.

You combine that with rumors of a Trump-friendly juror, and it's pretty obvious he's getting off here.

Rumors are not fact. Your opinion is based on what you and you alone wants to happen. Nobody knows how this verdict will come down.

[Ljube]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

[mjba257]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058
https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283
https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

Given the politics of the current SCOTUS, what are the odds that they take up the case immediately, bypassing NY court of appeals, and overturn a conviction?

[Obama24]

Biden to give a speech in Philly imminently - perhaps about the trial reaching its end?

[Ljube]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058
https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283
https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

Given the politics of the current SCOTUS, what are the odds that they take up the case immediately, bypassing NY court of appeals, and overturn a conviction?

Very high. Like close to 100%

[brucejoel99]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

Should np:

https://twitter.com/alegalnerd/status/1795843159542637044

[Gass3268]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

This is only an issue now? Not the hundreds/thousands of criminals this law would have also effected? I guess they'll be rooting for the Supreme Court to overturn this so they can appeal their own cases. I thought conservatives were tough on crime.

[Ljube]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

This is only an issue now? Not the hundreds/thousands of criminals this law would have also effected?I guess they'll be rooting for the Supreme Court to overturn this so they can appeal their own cases. I thought conservatives were tough on crime.

Tough on real crime.

[Holmes]

I expect deliberations to take at least a week.

Look, if they think Trump is guilty, they will come back quickly, like today.

If there is deliberation, that would mean that some of the jurors think Trump is not guilty, and since the evidence won't convince anyone thinking Trump is not guilty of his guilt, then it will take longer.

There are 34 counts and a lot of testimony and evidence. It doesn't seem that every juror walked into deliberations and said "this guy's guilty, right?" then walked out, so I'm guessing they'll be going through every line first before coming to their decisions.

[Ljube]

I expect deliberations to take at least a week.

Look, if they think Trump is guilty, they will come back quickly, like today.

If there is deliberation, that would mean that some of the jurors think Trump is not guilty, and since the evidence won't convince anyone thinking Trump is not guilty of his guilt, then it will take longer.

There are 34 counts and a lot of testimony and evidence. It doesn't seem that every juror walked into deliberations and said "this guy's guilty, right?" then walked out, so I'm guessing they'll be going through every line first before coming to their decisions.

What I'm saying is that the jurors walking into deliberations thinking Trump is not guilty are unlikely to be swayed by the evidence.

[brucejoel99]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

This is only an issue now? Not the hundreds/thousands of criminals this law would have also effected?I guess they'll be rooting for the Supreme Court to overturn this so they can appeal their own cases. I thought conservatives were tough on crime.

Tough on real crime.

1. NY Penal Law §§ 175.05 & 175.10
2. NY Election Law § 17-152
3. Federal Election Campaign Act, 52 U.S.C. § 30101
4. NY Tax Law §§ 1801(a)(3) & 1802

[DrScholl]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

This is only an issue now? Not the hundreds/thousands of criminals this law would have also effected?I guess they'll be rooting for the Supreme Court to overturn this so they can appeal their own cases. I thought conservatives were tough on crime.

Tough on real crime.

You can't selectively decided what is "real crime". There are people who think shoplifting from big box stores isn't a crime, but I don't see conservatives siding with that logic.

[Obama24]

I feel bad for the jury. It's a no win situation for them regardless of the outcome.

If they convict, MAGA people are gonna seek to dox them, etc.

If they acquit, same but from the far left.

If it's a hung jury, that person will likely become a social pariah for the rest of their life.

[Ljube]

The online right wing is erupting over a contention that the jury doesn't have to be unanimous to find Trump guilty, following a misleading tweet from Fox's John Roberts to that effect.  He later corrected it to confirm that they do have to be unanimous that Trump committed the crime of falsifying business records, but they don't have to be unanimous about which underlying crime it was in support of (which is what elevates it to a felony).  But it's too late, the damage is done.

The wording of that tweet & duration of time in between corrections…

https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795830647719932058https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795835934694650283https://twitter.com/johnrobertsfox/status/1795848224470700242
No doubt he knew exactly what he was doing!

Marco Rubio is now running with this. This will now be gospel on the MAGA right regardless for the truth.

Ok found out what's really going on here. New York law does not require that the jury be unanimous on the crime that was illegally covered up. The only have to be unanimous on if they thought there was an illegal cover up.

Yes.
Not sure if that will survive the eventual appeal to the SCOTUS.

This is only an issue now? Not the hundreds/thousands of criminals this law would have also effected?I guess they'll be rooting for the Supreme Court to overturn this so they can appeal their own cases. I thought conservatives were tough on crime.

Tough on real crime.

You can't selectively decided what is "real crime". There are people who think shoplifting from big box stores isn't a crime, but I don't see conservatives siding with that logic.

I'm not a conservative.

SCOTUS will decide if the charges against Trump were real or fake.