South Carolina Republicans want death penalty for women who get abortions

[Ferguson97]

Yes or no, do you acknowledge that this bill would make women who receive abortions eligible for the death penalty?

I will acknowledge it if someone makes a decent argument based on the actual bill text and not the specious reasoning of a partisan music magazine.

Do your arms get tired from having to constantly shift the goal posts?

Here's the language from the bill itself

TO AMEND THE SOUTH CAROLINA CODE OF LAWS BY ENACTING THE "SOUTH CAROLINA PRENATAL EQUAL PROTECTION ACT OF 2023"; BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-6, 16-3-105, 16-3-106, 16-3-107, AND 16-3-108 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF HOMICIDE IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE HOMICIDE LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS; AND BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-760, 16-3-761, 16-3-762, AND 16-3-763 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF ASSAULT IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE ASSAULT LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS.

The bill expands the definition of person to include the unborn.

The bill requires that all persons are treated the same under the state's homicide laws.

The state's homicide laws make someone who commits murder eligible for the death penalty.

Women who get abortions would then be eligible for the death penalty.

Like, are you seriously acting as if this is even up for debate or up to interpretation?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Yes or no, do you acknowledge that this bill would make women who receive abortions eligible for the death penalty?

I will acknowledge it if someone makes a decent argument based on the actual bill text and not the specious reasoning of a partisan music magazine.

Do your arms get tired from having to constantly shift the goal posts?

Here's the language from the bill itself

TO AMEND THE SOUTH CAROLINA CODE OF LAWS BY ENACTING THE "SOUTH CAROLINA PRENATAL EQUAL PROTECTION ACT OF 2023"; BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-6, 16-3-105, 16-3-106, 16-3-107, AND 16-3-108 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF HOMICIDE IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE HOMICIDE LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS; AND BY ADDING SECTIONS 16-3-760, 16-3-761, 16-3-762, AND 16-3-763 SO AS TO DEFINE "PERSON" TO INCLUDE AN UNBORN CHILD AT ANY STAGE OF DEVELOPMENT AND TO ENSURE THAT AN UNBORN CHILD WHO IS A VICTIM OF ASSAULT IS AFFORDED EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE ASSAULT LAWS OF THE STATE, WITH EXCEPTIONS.

I don't believe any state has a law wherein all
The bill expands the definition of person to include the unborn.

The bill requires that all persons are treated the same under the state's homicide laws.

The state's homicide laws make someone who commits murder eligible for the death penalty.

Women who get abortions would then be eligible for the death penalty.

Like, are you seriously acting as if this is even up for debate or up to interpretation?

The conditions where someone is eligible for the death penalty is limited in South Carolina, hence the reason it constitutes less than 1% of all murders. It certainly does not include all criminal homicides.

According to SC law: "Murder" is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied."
Is a woman who has an abortion in that category?  Make the argument.

For a murder to warrant the death penalty under SC law there must also be an aggravating factor with no mitigating circumstances. The murder being of a child is an aggravating factor, but relevant mitigating factors include

(2) The murder was committed while the defendant was under the influence of mental or emotional disturbance.

and

(5) The defendant acted under duress or under the domination of another person.

If you are seeking an illegal abortion, good chance at least one of these apply.

[President Johnson]

After the 2022 midterms and abortion referendums in red states, Republicans clearly have learned their lessons. NOT.

I guess the actual Talibans are taking careful notes.

[Skill and Chance]

This is disturbing and does significant harm to the pro-life cause. 

[Ferguson97]

The conditions where someone is eligible for the death penalty is limited in South Carolina, hence the reason it constitutes less than 1% of all murders. It certainly does not include all criminal homicides.

According to SC law: "Murder" is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied."
Is a woman who has an abortion in that category?  Make the argument.

You seem to be under the impression that the burden of proof is on us here.

For a murder to warrant the death penalty under SC law there must also be an aggravating factor with no mitigating circumstances. The murder being of a child is an aggravating factor, but relevant mitigating factors include

(2) The murder was committed while the defendant was under the influence of mental or emotional disturbance.

and

(5) The defendant acted under duress or under the domination of another person.

If you are seeking an illegal abortion, good chance at least one of these apply.

And that's certainly what any competent defense attorney would argue.

Shua, you're not going to convince us that the bill doesn't really mean what it says.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The conditions where someone is eligible for the death penalty is limited in South Carolina, hence the reason it constitutes less than 1% of all murders. It certainly does not include all criminal homicides.

According to SC law: "Murder" is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied."
Is a woman who has an abortion in that category?  Make the argument.

You seem to be under the impression that the burden of proof is on us here.
 

Who is the burden of proof generally on when it comes to whether someone is legally guilty of murder?

[Hermit For Peace]

I think the intent here is to discourage women from getting abortions, doubt they actually want to chair every woman who gets one.

But why should people care if a woman has an abortion? What is it for other people? Who cares?

Those are the million dollar questions. Seems to me it's because of two main factors. People think it's what God wants so in fear of retribution from God they want to stop abortion so they themselves don't go to hell. (Selfish)

And the other factor is that people still want to control women's bodies. It's their self-appointed job to rule over women in society. This one has sexual connotations to it in my opinion. And the desire for power.

Neither of these reasons are logical or desirable. Those people need an awakening.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

God this argument is the worst GOP deflection since "is it really a crime to commit a crime" from a few years ago.

[Ferguson97]

The conditions where someone is eligible for the death penalty is limited in South Carolina, hence the reason it constitutes less than 1% of all murders. It certainly does not include all criminal homicides.

According to SC law: "Murder" is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied."
Is a woman who has an abortion in that category?  Make the argument.

You seem to be under the impression that the burden of proof is on us here.
 

Who is the burden of proof generally on when it comes to whether someone is legally guilty of murder?

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

[Person Man]

If this actually goes anywhere at all, the resulting attack ads should be run on every major network for years.

[vitoNova]

....and GOP womyn will still continue to vote against their self-interests.


House Slave Tales. 

[Hermit For Peace]

....and GOP womyn will still continue to vote against their self-interests.


House Slave Tales. 

They either bought into the God thing that God thinks abortion is morally wrong, (believing that they know what God thinks.) Or they bought into the mindset that male domination of women's bodies is the right thing. I pray for their awakening and their enlightenment.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The conditions where someone is eligible for the death penalty is limited in South Carolina, hence the reason it constitutes less than 1% of all murders. It certainly does not include all criminal homicides.

According to SC law: "Murder" is the killing of any person with malice aforethought, either express or implied."
Is a woman who has an abortion in that category?  Make the argument.

You seem to be under the impression that the burden of proof is on us here.
 

Who is the burden of proof generally on when it comes to whether someone is legally guilty of murder?

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

[T'Chenka]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

[Orwell]

I heard about this on my way home today, either on Thom Hartmann or Michelangelo Signorile on Progress.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

[Landslide Lyndon]

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question.

JFC! Why don't you just stop embarrassing yourself?

[Ferguson97]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

[DaleCooper]

Anyone who supports the death penalty for any person under any circumstances cannot call themselves a Christian, in my opinion. The New Testament is clear as day on the subject.

[patzer]

Unborn babies obviously deserve full legal protection and personhood, but this law is absurd. Not only is the death penalty barbaric, but also there's a difference between punishing murder that's widely condemned by society and that which society still accepts. Putting in increasingly harsher penalties isn't going to get any of the pro abortion crowd to change their minds.

[Person Man]

This isn't a courtroom, dingus.

Yes or no: does the bill make women who get abortions eligible to receive the death penalty?

There is only one correct answer here btw

Hurling insults won't give women who get abortions the death penalty, even though you clearly want it to happen. I feel truly sorry for you but it isn't going to.

He asked you "yes or no" several times and you won't give a straight answer. It's okay to admit when you're wrong. We're ALL wrong sometimes. It's okay.

I don't even know what "eligible" is supposed to mean in this question. That it isn't explicitly ruled out?   Where in the current law is it that explicitly rules it out, that this law would change?

No woman is going to get the death penalty due to this bill that wouldn't get it without it.  Is anyone going to argue otherwise?

Dude just take the L

Answer my questions.

This is sad. Just say you support this or don’t because you don’t support the DP for civilian crimes and support life imprisonment instead and move on.

[MasterJedi]

The first thing to do if this evil bill were to somehow pass would be to find all the Republican politicians wives who voted for this who’ve had abortions (I’m sure there are many) and charge them for it. Would be the quickest way to get it repealed as I’m sure they’d put no statute of limitations on it.

[Skill and Chance]

The first thing to do if this evil bill were to somehow pass would be to find all the Republican politicians wives who voted for this who’ve had abortions (I’m sure there are many) and charge them for it. Would be the quickest way to get it repealed as I’m sure they’d put no statute of limitations on it.

This bill is explicitly worded so that it only applies prospectively to future acts if it passes.  It's generally unconstitutional to retroactively criminalize conduct that already happened in the past. 

The main test is if they would have jurisdiction under a law like this over a resident who drove to NC or VA to get an abortion and then returned home.  Kavanuagh's Dobbs concurrence strongly suggests the answer is no.

[Person Man]

The first thing to do if this evil bill were to somehow pass would be to find all the Republican politicians wives who voted for this who’ve had abortions (I’m sure there are many) and charge them for it. Would be the quickest way to get it repealed as I’m sure they’d put no statute of limitations on it.

This bill is explicitly worded so that it only applies prospectively to future acts if it passes.  It's generally unconstitutional to retroactively criminalize conduct that already happened in the past.  

The main test is if they would have jurisdiction under a law like this over a resident who drove to NC or VA to get an abortion and then returned home.  Kavanuagh's Dobbs concurrence strongly suggests the answer is no.

Technically, you are correct but that is not the issue.

It is the same argument that was used against Walker - Why does someone profess that abortion murder when they practice abortion? Is it anything the rest of us should be concerned about? It all just leads down a rabbit hole that I am not comfortable going into at 11 oclock on Wednesday Morning.