Is deadnaming a trans person equivalent to the N-word?

[Horus]

Well?

[Dereich]

Absolutely not.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Well it's not a generic slur, so it can't be an equivalent, but it's certainly rude and should generally be avoided on that basis.

[DaleCooper]

It's not the equivalent to the n word or any slur that attacks people for their immutable characteristics. Sometimes it's relevant to mention a person's real or former name. Simple as that. Deliberately calling someone by a name they don't want to be called purely because you don't want to use their preferred name is potentially rude or hurtful, but still not in the same ballpark as the n word or any other slur.

[You don't see any blue avatars now]

Why don't you ask someone to whom both apply? Oh right, I forgot: This is Atlas, where cisplaining goes to thrive.

[Conservatopia]

No - I would never use the N-word.

[7,052,770]

No, it's a really bad thing to do, but clearly a tier down from that.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Where do we place referring to someone in past tense by the name they publicly went by at that time?

[Xing]

No, but it's still bad.

[Del Tachi]

Where do we place referring to someone in past tense by the name they publicly went by at that time?

Accurate. 

[Mr. Reactionary]

Where do we place referring to someone in past tense by the name they publicly went by at that time?

Accurate. 

The insistance on anachronistic retcons is what i find most grating. There are folxeses who get mad if you dont agree that the 1976 olympic mens decathalon was won by a woman. Its even on Wikipedia that a woman named caitlyn won a mens competition. I think on Netflix the credits for the 2001 season of Trailer Park Boys were edited to claim that Laheys daughter was portrayed by a man named Elliott. When Prince changed his name to the artist formerly known as prince, they didnt rewrite the awards. Ditto for Kanye West.

Like, those are historical records.

[7,052,770]

Its even on Wikipedia that a woman named caitlyn won a mens competition.

... there's a footnote saying she went by a different name at the time.

My recommendation would probably be to list it on the table in the article as Bruce with a footnote that says she now goes by Caitlin rather than the other way around, but your portrayal is misleading either way.

[Del Tachi]

Where do we place referring to someone in past tense by the name they publicly went by at that time?

Accurate. 

The insistance on anachronistic retcons is what i find most grating. There are folxeses who get mad if you dont agree that the 1976 olympic mens decathalon was won by a woman. Its even on Wikipedia that a woman named caitlyn won a mens competition. I think on Netflix the credits for the 2001 season of Trailer Park Boys were edited to claim that Laheys daughter was portrayed by a man named Elliott. When Prince changed his name to the artist formerly known as prince, they didnt rewrite the awards. Ditto for Kanye West.

Like, those are historical records.

This practice shows exactly how retrograde the majority of alphabet people's beliefs on gender actually are.  The implication is that a transman was always a man (even prior to transition), which is mostly regressive "brain sex" non-sense.

It seems weird that people supposedly ok with gender/identity transition would take offense at someone's previously known identity being evoked. 

[Mr. Smith]

Remember that the n-word was acceptable once and this thread would be "Is the n-word equivalent to M*&goloid or d^%ky or sp*&k?"

Alternatively, no one thinks "z^%nds" is even close to blasphemy, insofar as anyone still cares about blasphemy.

Tl, dr; Not yet, but it could go that way.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Hell no

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

"Is the n-word equivalent to M*&goloid or d^%ky or sp*&k?"

Was there ever a time when the N word was unacceptable but those words weren't?

[America Needs R'hllor]

What does "equivalent to the N-word" even mean? Stop using trans people to make stupid points. Deadnaming someone is simply an asshole thing to do, and if you do it you're an asshole, end of story. Simply stay out of other people's business and respect their personal choices.

[lfromnj]

What does "equivalent to the N-word" even mean? Stop using trans people to make stupid points. Deadnaming someone is simply an asshole thing to do, and if you do it you're an asshole, end of story. Simply stay out of other people's business and respect their personal choices.

Forgive me if I don’t believe Fox News over a trans person’s story. The person is clearly an awful being and should rot in a dark cell, but deadnaming someone is as bad as the n word, and you’d know this if you’d spend time around trans people.

Idk why don't you ask him.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Well it's not a generic slur, so it can't be an equivalent, but it's certainly rude and should generally be avoided on that basis.

It should be, but I don't think it's surprising that many people don't treat it that way, because, as has been pointed out, LGBT community standards on this conflict with the way we treat name changes in general. We don't edit pre-1964 references to "Cassius Clay" to say "Muhammad Ali" or pre-2013 references to "Jorge Mario Bergoglio" to say "Pope Francis", yet retrospective references to, for example, "Ellen Page" can get you in a lot of reputational trouble in some circles. So I think this should be looked at as a (potentially very serious; this shouldn't be downplayed) lapse in etiquette rather than as something objectively and self-evidently offensive in the way that a slur is.

[Mr. Smith]

"Is the n-word equivalent to M*&goloid or d^%ky or sp*&k?"

Was there ever a time when the N word was unacceptable but those words weren't?

Now arguably, just because of the antiquated nature. They're as dead as "overmorrow".

[VBM]

What I don’t understand is why do trans people need to change their names in the first place? Doesn’t that just reinforce traditional gender stereotypes by implying that the name in question can only be used by a certain gender?

[Figueira]

What I don’t understand is why do trans people need to change their names in the first place? Doesn’t that just reinforce traditional gender stereotypes by implying that the name in question can only be used by a certain gender?

Anecdotally, I know a few trans people who haven't changed their names. I've also met trans people who changed their names even though their previous name was gender-neutral. A lot of the time, it's about distancing from your past self rather than purely a gender thing.

But also, this "trans people are reinforcing gender stereotypes" myth is getting really, really tiring. Pick a new lane.

[VBM]

What I don’t understand is why do trans people need to change their names in the first place? Doesn’t that just reinforce traditional gender stereotypes by implying that the name in question can only be used by a certain gender?

Anecdotally, I know a few trans people who haven't changed their names. I've also met trans people who changed their names even though their previous name was gender-neutral. A lot of the time, it's about distancing from your past self rather than purely a gender thing.

But also, this "trans people are reinforcing gender stereotypes" myth is getting really, really tiring. Pick a new lane.

Good point. Would’ve recommended this post if not for the unnecessary hostility at the end.

[Neo-Malthusian Misanthrope]

Where do we place referring to someone in past tense by the name they publicly went by at that time?

Accurate.  

The insistance on anachronistic retcons is what i find most grating. There are folxeses who get mad if you dont agree that the 1976 olympic mens decathalon was won by a woman. Its even on Wikipedia that a woman named caitlyn won a mens competition. I think on Netflix the credits for the 2001 season of Trailer Park Boys were edited to claim that Laheys daughter was portrayed by a man named Elliott. When Prince changed his name to the artist formerly known as prince, they didnt rewrite the awards. Ditto for Kanye West.

Like, those are historical records.

That's something I find intriguing. Like, wiki says the Gold Medal in Men's Light Heavyweight Boxing at the 1960 Olympics went to Cassius Clay, and the number 1 NBA draft pick in 1969 was Lou Alcindor. I can admit it's somewhat apples-to-oranges to compare a trans name change to a religious name change but it's interesting which ones seem to have been deemed retroactive.

What I don’t understand is why do trans people need to change their names in the first place? Doesn’t that just reinforce traditional gender stereotypes by implying that the name in question can only be used by a certain gender?

Anecdotally, I know a few trans people who haven't changed their names. I've also met trans people who changed their names even though their previous name was gender-neutral. A lot of the time, it's about distancing from your past self rather than purely a gender thing.

But also, this "trans people are reinforcing gender stereotypes" myth is getting really, really tiring. Pick a new lane.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying trans people are as beholden to societal expectations about gender as the rest of us, in addition to the bit about distancing from past presentation.

[Antonio the Sixth]

But also, this "trans people are reinforcing gender stereotypes" myth is getting really, really tiring. Pick a new lane.

I think this is actually a genuine concern some feminists have, and it's not helpful to dismiss it out of hand. It's hard to deny that many trans people tend to "perform" their gender more intensely that your average cis person, and for someone who's interested in gender becoming a less central part of our lives, that might feel like a step in the wrong direction. I know I've had these concerns in the past and I really don't think it was just bigotry on my part.

There are answers, of course. The most obvious one is that feminists don't go around telling cis women they're being "too feminine" (and ideally, they shouldn't be telling cis men they're "too masculine" either, unless they're expressing their masculinity in harmful ways). To impose genderlessness as a norm would be just as antithetical to feminist goals as imposing femininity and masculinity as norm: the goal is to abolish all gender norms so people are free to express their identities however they prefer. Gender norms do exist in our society, however, and trans people are particularly susceptible to them precisely because much of society does not accept their gender identity: a heightened gender performance might, in many circumstances, help them affirm their gender identity in a society that's skeptical of it. This isn't in any way the fault of trans people, of course: instead, it's the fault of society for not accepting them as such.