When Students Change Gender Identity, and Parents Don’t Know

[rhg2052]

This is one issue where I am 100% on the “conservative” side, and indeed the more I read about it the more entrenched I become in that position.

We know, and it's sad to see.  You're even more reactionary on this than several (possibly even most?) blue avatars around here.

I don't know what interactions you've had IRL with trans people, if any, but I hope at some point you'll get to do so and spend most of the conversation just being quiet and listening.

The thing is that the student in question probably wasn't trans. That's the real issue here.

Based on what? What standard of proof do you need to accept that someone is genuinely trans, if you don’t believe them when they socially transition, and don’t think they should be allowed to medically transition?

[Agafin]

I miss the era where a woman could be masculine and a man feminine without being considered trans. "Gender is a social construct" and all that, remember? That was less than a decade ago. I will never understand why the left became even more rigid on gender roles than the right, but in a different way.

[T'Chenka]

I miss the era where a woman could be masculine and a man feminine without being considered trans. "Gender is a social construct" and all that, remember? That was less than a decade ago. I will never understand why the left became even more rigid on gender roles than the right, but in a different way.

You don't understand the left.

[MasterJedi]

Outing students can be incredibly dangerous to their mental and physical health. Schools should absolutely not reveal a kids gender identity or sexuality or anything that could be dangerous to a kid.

Hell growing up in the south I knew kids who would have been in a decent amount of trouble just for dating a different race if the school told on them to their parents. People can be downright hateful towards their kids

Yes, kids need to be protected from their conservative and religious families where they’ll likely receive incredible physical and mental abuse for who they are.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I miss the era where a woman could be masculine and a man feminine without being considered trans. "Gender is a social construct" and all that, remember? That was less than a decade ago. I will never understand why the left became even more rigid on gender roles than the right, but in a different way.

TIL transfem tomboys apparently don't exist.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

I miss the era where a woman could be masculine and a man feminine without being considered trans. "Gender is a social construct" and all that, remember? That was less than a decade ago. I will never understand why the left became even more rigid on gender roles than the right, but in a different way.

Did you accidentally mix up "the American left" with the Iranian regime, because otherwise this makes zero sense tbh

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Children, especially teenagers, are individuals, not their parents' property. They should be allowed to identify however they want, and if keeping that information away from their unaccepting parents gives them comfort and security, then so be it. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.

[Sirius_]

The thing is that not everyone is perfectly confident in what their gender identity is. Maybe the kid isn't trans, so what? Nothing permanent was done here. Allowing a social transition is probably the easiest way to figure out this kid's gender. Furthermore, coming out to somebody who you are dependent on is scary even if you don't believe they are bigoted. Parents have power over you that friends or even teachers don't. That makes it inherently risky.

[Perlen vor den Schweinen]

average Alben Barkley post is a noun, verb, and "trannies are killing the Democratic Party"

[JGibson]

This really depends on how much you believe teens should have any level of autonomy. Clearly it would be out of line if the school was facilitating a full transition without parental consent, but this doesn't seem to be what happened.

Exactly. School should be a safe place for gay students to be themselves with their friends, even if their parents are homophobic. The idea that they shouldn't have that space or that privacy from their parents, or should be 'snitched' on by the education authorities, at high school is autocratic. The same goes for any student who wants some element of social transition.

100% spot on. That's why laws like Florida's HB1557 are heinous.

[Ferguson97]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

[Alben Barkley]

The thing is that not everyone is perfectly confident in what their gender identity is. Maybe the kid isn't trans, so what? Nothing permanent was done here. Allowing a social transition is probably the easiest way to figure out this kid's gender. Furthermore, coming out to somebody who you are dependent on is scary even if you don't believe they are bigoted. Parents have power over you that friends or even teachers don't. That makes it inherently risky.

"Social transition" is not without risk. This kid apparently already changed her sexual orientation and name multiple times. She clearly has no idea what her identity is. But the more she goes down the road of presenting to the world that she is a certain identity, the harder it will be to back away from that and retreat to her old identity even if she wants to, especially if she has developed a new social support network predicated entirely on her being trans (as is so often true of ROGD cases) and especially if her parents are out of the loop and can't be there to provide critical support. Rather than helping to "figure out" the kid's gender, it may create a vicious feedback loop reinforcing the idea that she is a particular gender even if she's not, in addition to creating distance and barriers between her and her parents, who are likely particularly critical for her support given her array of mental health issues. It is incredibly arrogant and presumptuous for the school to pretend they know better than the parents what this kid's real issues are or how they should be treated. The result of all this? The kid already wants to chop her breasts off and go on hormones that some evidence suggests dramatically increases the risk of heart disease in females among other complications, as well as other irreversible cosmetic effects. This is not healthy. This is not normal. This should not and cannot be accepted for minors.

I won't stand by and watch it happen without putting in my vocal protest, whatever little it is worth, against this collective madness, this mass hysteria. I like to think I would have done the same against eugenics and lobotomies, which honestly this latest trend of coming up with physical "solutions" to obvious mental health problems reminds me of more than anything. Especially since sterilization and reduced quality and length of life are common outcomes here as well! Fact is "psychiatry" is a field that has f--ked up over and over and over again and deserves a VERY healthy dose of skepticism, especially when it comes to irreversibly altering children's lives without parental consent. Again, this SHOULD be common sense. It should NOT be a political issue at all. The fact that it is is, itself, utter madness.

[Alben Barkley]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

It's honestly incredibly insulting to gay people to insinuate that their inborn sexual orientation is equivalent to a confused autistic/mentally ill teenager struggling to find her identity. Considering gender dysphoria, unlike homosexuality, is a mental illness, parents should absolutely be in the loop when it comes to how to treat the condition. And that's when it's even an accurate diagnosis, which I am highly skeptical it is in this case.

But you know, to some people virtue signaling to fellow "woke" people online that they are on the "right side of history" (so they -- I believe falsely -- assume anyway) is more important than the actual mental and physical health of children. Clearly.

[Ferguson97]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

It's honestly incredibly insulting to gay people to insinuate that their inborn sexual orientation is equivalent to a confused autistic/mentally ill teenager struggling to find her identity. Considering gender dysphoria, unlike homosexuality, is a mental illness, parents should absolutely be in the loop when it comes to how to treat the condition. And that's when it's even an accurate diagnosis, which I am highly skeptical it is in this case.

But you know, to some people virtue signaling to fellow "woke" people online that they are on the "right side of history" (so they -- I believe falsely -- assume anyway) is more important than the actual mental and physical health of children. Clearly.

Did a trans woman burn your house down or something? I honestly don't know what personal experiences led you to hold so much hatred in your heart, but I hope that you can sort it out soon so that you don't radicalize yourself further.

Even if what you're saying about trans people and their mental health is true -- and it's not -- then do you honestly believe that outing them to their parents would be in the child's best interest? Do you believe that their parents are going to have a rational reaction and seek appropriate, professional help for their children? Or are they going to respond with aggression, hatred, and put their own child through hell?

Part of the reason that so many kids (and adults) stay in the closet is because they fear that mom and dad are going to react just like you.

[Alben Barkley]

average Alben Barkley post is a noun, verb, and "trannies are killing the Democratic Party"

My posts here have absolutely nothing to do with the Democratic Party. My concerns here are not political at all. They are ethical.

And for the millionth time, I do believe there are indeed transgender people out there who have legitimate gender dysphoria and who can be best treated for that with gender-affirming care. I simply do not believe such "care" should ever be given to minors, and furthermore believe that it is being applied too liberally recently compared to even just a few years ago. This is serious, life-altering, potentially traumatic and even fatal medical "care" we are talking about here, yet it is treated nonchalantly like it's as simple as popping a sudafed for a cold by some people. Again, utter madness. And again, it should be common sense. Stuff that affects your fertility, sensitivity, possibly your lifespan -- and for which there is very limited evidence at best it actually leads to increased positive outcomes long-term, especially when applied to young people -- is no joke. To put it bluntly, cutting your f--king dick or tits off is not something anyone should ever do unless they are absolutely 1 million percent certain they must, and after all other alternatives have been thoroughly explored and exhausted. And shouldn't be an option for minors at all.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

You cannot compare the two as one doesn't lead to medical treatment.

[Ferguson97]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

You cannot compare the two as one doesn't lead to medical treatment.

1) It often does, but does not necessarily lead to medical treatment.

2) You want to ban medical treatment for minors regardless, so what does it matter if they're allowed to remain in the closet? They can't get the treatment anyway.

3) Regardless of what you and Alben want to believe, it is the overwhelming consensus of the medical community that gender-affirming care is beneficial for the mental and psychological well-being of trans people.

[7,052,770]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

Agreed, but that applies more to a student tells a teacher or administrator something in confidence, not a situation where literally everyone at the school knows about this and is talking about it openly, but somehow the parent is still in the dark (a situation that is impossible before high school but apparently did happen in this one family - how inattentive are his parents?).

At that point, the parent has the right to know. (Although in these bizarre rare cases, social services should evacuate the trans teen if that's necessary.)

[Burke Bro]

Outing someone as gay or trans to their parents is one of the most vile things that you can do, and it's reprehensible that so many on Atlas want to force schools and teachers to do this.

You cannot compare the two as one doesn't lead to medical treatment.

1) It often does, but does not necessarily lead to medical treatment.

2) You want to ban medical treatment for minors regardless, so what does it matter if they're allowed to remain in the closet? They can't get the treatment anyway.

3) Regardless of what you and Alben want to believe, it is the overwhelming consensus of the medical community that gender-affirming care is beneficial for the mental and psychological well-being of trans people.

This "overwhelming consensus" only exists, not because there is an overwhelming amount evidence, but because there is an overwhelming amount of groupthink in the medical community. Physicians who stray from the consensus are ridiculed and even lose their jobs. People also don't like to be told there's something wrong with them, so there's a big (albeit unethical) monetary incentive for psychiatrists who practice gender affirming care.

[Horus]

There's a weird obsession from a lot of people about micromanaging the lives of teenagers. "Concerned parents" are the enemy of a free society.

Both schools and parents are guilty of this, especially lately.

I miss the era where a woman could be masculine and a man feminine without being considered trans. "Gender is a social construct" and all that, remember? That was less than a decade ago. I will never understand why the left became even more rigid on gender roles than the right, but in a different way.

I joke about gender horseshoe theory, but there are some on the social "left" who are just a half step away from Iran's forced transition policy for gay men.

[TheReckoning]

The thing is that not everyone is perfectly confident in what their gender identity is.

This wasn’t at all a problem (with the exception of an extremely limited amount of severely mentally ill people) until the last few years. We’ve literally just created more problems for society as well as those susceptible to confusion and mental issues with all this obsessions over gender.

What’s so hard about saying if you have XY, you’re a man, if you have XX, you’re a women, and that’s the case regardless of whatever mental reactions you have to that? And it’s okay to not be totally satisfied with your biology, but that’s no reason to try and change it to pretend you’re something else?

[Ferguson97]

This "overwhelming consensus" only exists, not because there is an overwhelming amount evidence, but because there is an overwhelming amount of groupthink in the medical community. Physicians who stray from the consensus are ridiculed and even lose their jobs. People also don't like to be told there's something wrong with them, so there's a big (albeit unethical) monetary incentive for psychiatrists who practice gender affirming care.

The all-time classic conservative strategy—when you don’t have any evidence to support your argument, claim that there’s a conspiracy to silence the truth.

I don’t know where you guys get this idea that the trans community is some powerful, influential group that has significant control over our institutions.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

I'm opposed to any school informing parents of a student's trans identity. It could lead to them being sent to conversion therapy, drive them to suicide, generally make their life a living hell. Same reason I opposed proposals I remember seeing a few years ago to outlaw anonymous social media accounts which would hurt underage LGBT teens more then anybody.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

Where are the Atlas militant trans activists to explain why this is acceptable?

Not trans (just an ally) but sure, reporting for duty. See above.

[TransfemmeGoreVidal]

There's a weird obsession from a lot of people about micromanaging the lives of teenagers. "Concerned parents" are the enemy of a free society.