Far right power grab by Israeli Knesset

[It’s so Joever]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64173730

This is a blatant power grab and a dangerously authoritarian plan which essentially would allow a simple majority in the Israeli Knesset to overrule the Supreme Court. Between this and the recent elections, it’s time to acknowledge Israel is edging towards being a fascist apartheid state. (And yes Palestinian leadership would do the exact same if given the opportunity, I’m not a tankie. There are no adults at this point here.)

We can support them for geopolitical reasons, but let’s not delude ourselves about our actions.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Worrying. What the hell are they doing down there?

[Progressive Pessimist]

Disappointing, but not all that surprising actually.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

And yet whenever many, many people who’ve seen this coming for a long time pointed it out, people always attacked them as anti-semites and other nonsense.

Fundamentalist religion is a danger no matter where it comes from or who believes it. When you believe your religion gives you the right to Trump the civil or human rights of others, it needs to be smacked down.

[It’s so Joever]

And yet whenever many, many people who’ve seen this coming for a long time pointed it out, people always attacked them as anti-semites and other nonsense.

Fundamentalist religion is a danger no matter where it comes from or who believes it. When you believe your religion gives you the right to Trump the civil or human rights of others, it needs to be smacked down.

I was wrong about Israel a few years ago. I freely admit that. It’s become clear to me that their Democratic-liberal facade was just hiding a giant horde of far right public sentiment and downright colonial mindsets. I am ashamed I fell for it, but the doubters were right. Now let’s send a real message to our fake ally. We see how they act with Russia and Ukraine, they are unreliable and have this mentality that needs to be crushed. At the very least, some private pressure on Bibi to at least start aligning himself with us on the vital national security issue and a firm reminder that there is nothing stopping us from cutting the inflow.

[Hnv1]

We have a thread. No need for another

[Horus]

Shocking.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Kamala Harris says we will support Israel no matter what. This is what happens when you give up all your leverage.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Disappointing, but not all that surprising actually.

yet many continue to be in denial about Israel.

[CumbrianLefty]

And yet whenever many, many people who’ve seen this coming for a long time pointed it out, people always attacked them as anti-semites and other nonsense.

In some cases, unfortunately, that is because their attacks on Israel *did* cross over into AS.

Something that is very likely to increase under this utterly wretched regime.

[Lord Halifax]

We have a thread. No need for another

this is definitely significant enough to merit a separate thread

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

All the "See, our vaguely genocidal rhetoric was right all along" hand-wringing aside, this does seem like the worst thing this administration has tiptoed around so far - and a recipe for a serious government crisis, as it's trying to put itself above the Supreme Court. What happens when the Supreme Court issues a finding against this policy?

You can't have an impartial body with the final say if the legislators can simply overrule them because they don't like the ruling.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

And yet whenever many, many people who’ve seen this coming for a long time pointed it out, people always attacked them as anti-semites and other nonsense.

In some cases, unfortunately, that is because their attacks on Israel *did* cross over into AS.

Something that is very likely to increase under this utterly wretched regime.

And those types, if it can be definitively proven, should be called out for their BS then. Jewish people are incredibly based and I have immense respect for the numerous Labour and egalitarian struggles they've contributed to throughout history.

But the kind of knee-jerk 'any criticism of Israel means you HATE Jews and are probably a secrete anti-semite!' needs to be done away with. The modern day state of Israel and its right-wing government are committing terrible acts of oppression and deserve to be called out like any other country that might try to do the same.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

All the "See, our vaguely genocidal rhetoric was right all along" hand-wringing aside, this does seem like the worst thing this administration has tiptoed around so far - and a recipe for a serious government crisis, as it's trying to put itself above the Supreme Court. What happens when the Supreme Court issues a finding against this policy?

You can't have an impartial body with the final say if the legislators can simply overrule them because they don't like the ruling.

See, it's rhetoric like this that completely distorts the conversation. If you have to bully others into supporting your cause with straw men and hyperbole then I don't think it's a very sound cause in the first place. And accusing other posters of making 'vaguely genocidal' rhetoric is a serious charge, I might add.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

All the "See, our vaguely genocidal rhetoric was right all along" hand-wringing aside, this does seem like the worst thing this administration has tiptoed around so far - and a recipe for a serious government crisis, as it's trying to put itself above the Supreme Court. What happens when the Supreme Court issues a finding against this policy?

You can't have an impartial body with the final say if the legislators can simply overrule them because they don't like the ruling.

See, it's rhetoric like this that completely distorts the conversation. If you have to bully others into supporting your cause with straw men and hyperbole then I don't think it's a very sound cause in the first place. And accusing other posters of making 'vaguely genocidal' rhetoric is a serious charge, I might add.

I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but many posters on this forum have expressed both outright hostility towards Israel's existence and towards the diaspora Jewish population that largely supports it. That absolutely is vaguely genocidal and I refuse to be cowed out of calling it what it is.

[Fight for Trump]

Calling this a "power grab" is a stretch considering the Israeli form of government. One could argue that it is the Israeli Supreme Court, not the Knesset, that lacks sufficient checks on its power - they are unelected lawyers approved by other unelected lawyers.

[afleitch]

Israel is a democracy. It should never be subject to special pleading where democratic backsliding occurs.

[PSOL]

It’s finally happening. Bibi won and has all the cards for as long as he lives. Long live the new king of Israel

[Cashew]

This looks bad but ultimately Israel is a country without a constitution, if anything the suprise is that the court was this powerful and controversial to begin with. Imagine courts in the UK being that relevant.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Calling this a "power grab" is a stretch considering the Israeli form of government. One could argue that it is the Israeli Supreme Court, not the Knesset, that lacks sufficient checks on its power - they are unelected lawyers approved by other unelected lawyers.

One could argue that. I wouldn't.

This looks bad but ultimately Israel is a country without a constitution, if anything the suprise is that the court was this powerful and controversial to begin with. Imagine courts in the UK being that relevant.

British politicians generally don't play fast and loose with democratic and human-rights norms the way the Israeli right does, and when they do the courts often do step in.

[Cashew]

Calling this a "power grab" is a stretch considering the Israeli form of government. One could argue that it is the Israeli Supreme Court, not the Knesset, that lacks sufficient checks on its power - they are unelected lawyers approved by other unelected lawyers.

One could argue that. I wouldn't.

This looks bad but ultimately Israel is a country without a constitution, if anything the suprise is that the court was this powerful and controversial to begin with. Imagine courts in the UK being that relevant.

British politicians generally don't play fast and loose with democratic and human-rights norms the way the Israeli right does, and when they do the courts often do step in.

British politics does not have quite the same extent of existential controversy that Israeli politics does, reducing the possible rewards for challenging the courts. In any case the lack of written constitution makes it far easier for the judiciary of any country put in this situtation to eventually be rendered toothless.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Disappointing, but not all that surprising actually.

yet many continue to be in denial about Israel.

No? One just has to acknowledge that the Palestinian government aren't a bunch of wholesome Keanu chads who can do no wrong, while Israel (for now) has the strongest human rights of the middle east, which is like being the least racist person in the KKK or the best Stephanie Meyer book.

Personally, I don't think my personal views on the idea are too pro-Israel:

Personally:

(Assuming it was signed tomorrow)
-All Israeli settlers will be expelled with compensation within the next 12 months, with those who refuse being forcibly removed without compensation over the following 6 months. Haredi Jews who refuse to leave will lose their voting rights.
-Palestine holds free elections by December of 2024 with all non-settler residents being allowed to vote. International inspectors from the EU, Carter Center, and other groups which aren't blindingly biased (eh hem US Government) monitor the results. Fatah and Hamas will be banned for a new slate. These elections will be for a constitutional convention, which will decide on a new form of government (parliamentary, presidential, etc). Elections for that new government will take place by December of 2025.
-Palestine must ensure freedom of religion and freedoms for women. Not like western level immediately, but perhaps Jordan at a bare minimum.
-Palestine gets full national sovereignty over its territory. This includes areas A, B, and C in the Oslo Accords, with possible joint security areas/border changes around Jerusalem. Israeli forces will provide training as needed. This will conclude by 2026.
-Palestine gradually takes control of all public services (health, security, etc) slowly, beginning in 2023 and ending in 2029.
-Palestine will get several billion in aid per year financed mostly by the Israeli government but with contributions from the Arab world so they finally put their money where their mouth is. However, they will have to allow UN observers to monitor their spending for at least ten years so the money actually flows towards helping people.
-Palestine will get relief from all existing sanctions, again for a 'fresh slate'.
-Hamas's "government" in Gaza will be eliminated in one way or another, preferably involving the UN or at worst Egypt. Israel won't be involved, although the UN will pay for any ammunition wasted on shooting down rockets along with compensation to any individuals killed/wounded and any property damaged.
-Gaza will be reunited with with Palestine proper on January 1, 2030 if all goes to plan.
-Palestinians who are still living who had their property taken away will be allowed to return with compensation. Their descendants will be permitted to come with after passing a background check.
-Descendants of Palestinians who had their land stolen who are no longer alive will receive visas and compensation.

[CumbrianLefty]

All the "See, our vaguely genocidal rhetoric was right all along" hand-wringing aside, this does seem like the worst thing this administration has tiptoed around so far - and a recipe for a serious government crisis, as it's trying to put itself above the Supreme Court. What happens when the Supreme Court issues a finding against this policy?

You can't have an impartial body with the final say if the legislators can simply overrule them because they don't like the ruling.

See, it's rhetoric like this that completely distorts the conversation. If you have to bully others into supporting your cause with straw men and hyperbole then I don't think it's a very sound cause in the first place. And accusing other posters of making 'vaguely genocidal' rhetoric is a serious charge, I might add.

I'm not saying you're guilty of this, but many posters on this forum have expressed both outright hostility towards Israel's existence and towards the diaspora Jewish population that largely supports it. That absolutely is vaguely genocidal and I refuse to be cowed out of calling it what it is.

I mean, *many* posters? Really??

[Torie]

I guess the Knesset channeled some of the Marbury v Madison hate that has been posted here.
Hopefully the Israel Supreme Court will resist, even if it leads to their impeachment and removal.

The article below portrays matters as so ominous (ominous to me anyway) that one wonders just how long those living in Israel that prefer a secular liberal democracy in the broad sense of the term can endure this evolution to an uncivil society of intolerance, and decide to just get the heck out.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/netanyahus-government-takes-a-turn-toward-theocracy

Anyone have any thoughts on that? I do recommend the article to the largely clueless types like myself as to the complexities of Israeli society and politics, because it affords a brief overview of the various factions, and their provenance and ideology, and vocabulary to describe them. Those facile with such matters perhaps assume the rest of us know more than we actually do.

[CookieDamage]

Whats preventing the court from striking down this law?