I&I/TIPP: Voters turning to Republicans, 57% majority support building wall

[citizenZ]

https://issuesinsights.com/2022/10/17/as-midterms-loom-voters-prefer-gop-on-border-security-support-building-a-wall-ii-tipp-poll/

Good grief. I don't think I've ever seen a poll showing nearly 60% in support of building a wall, and a majority of Hispanics in favor of building one.
 
This may just be a reaction to the building wave we've seen in the last ten days.

[Horus]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

[Hammy]

This same poll had Trump winning the popular vote both times by 5+ points so it's pretty much garbage

[Orwell]

In one of my classes we talked about Push Polls, like when Bush had calls to residents in South Carolina asking, "Would your view change of Senator McCain if he illegitimately fathered a black child?".

[Cyrusman]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Generally speaking, why did the Dems make such a leftward shift on border policies in the mid 2010s? What was the culprit of that decision? \

Also, WTF is up with Black voters favoring Democrats border policies so dramatically?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Generally speaking, why did the Dems make such a leftward shift on border policies in the mid 2010s? What was the culprit of that decision? \

Also, WTF is up with Black voters favoring Democrats border policies so dramatically?

After 2012 Democrats went all in on the strategy of demographics=destiny and really everything the Democrats have done since then starts to make more sense if you look at from that angle.

These are good twitter threads:

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1443926667026702391


https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1443946684950663168

[President Johnson]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Have they, though? More seems like a right-wing talking point to me. Trump has been the wacko for proposing a border wall of a few thousand miles instead of effectively dealing with this issue.

[Horus]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Have they, though? More seems like a right-wing talking point to me. Trump has been the wacko for proposing a border wall of a few thousand miles instead of effectively dealing with this issue.

Of course, the Republican proposals for immigration run from badly thought out to utterly deranged, but only one party has been on record promoting de facto open borders.

Also, can we please finally lay to rest the idea that going the bleeding heart activist route on immigration is helpful for getting the Latino vote?

[7,052,770]

The idea that a border wall would make any noticable dent in undocumented border crossings is ludicrous.

[citizenZ]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Generally speaking, why did the Dems make such a leftward shift on border policies in the mid 2010s? What was the culprit of that decision?

After the 2014 midterms, it looked like Obama was going to try and compromise (if he could) with a new GOP Senate on his immigration bill. There were some parts of it that were very tough on things such as illegal hiring and border security.

Instead, he dropped the idea of compromise (whether or not it would have worked) and took a hardline approach with executive orders on basic amnesty and non-enforcement. This culminated with the election of Donald Trump in November 2016.

[Ferguson97]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

[Cyrusman]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Have they, though? More seems like a right-wing talking point to me. Trump has been the wacko for proposing a border wall of a few thousand miles instead of effectively dealing with this issue.

Yes and it seems like the 2012-2014 time frame is when it happened. Bill Clinton gave one of the most powerful speeches on illegal immigration i ever heard in one of his state of the union addresses. Obama deported more people than any president and had the nickname deporter and chief. George W Bush's Fencing act got 80 votes in the senate in 2006 including many Democrat votes.
 Biden on day 1 tried to ban deportations with executive order.

[Horus]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

I'm not even slightly anti-immigration. My views on the matter match up very well with Obama's 2008 campaign, or with western European social democratic parties.

[Ferguson97]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

I'm not even slightly anti-immigration. My views on the matter match up very well with Obama's 2008 campaign, or with western European social democratic parties.

So nearly 15 years out of date?

[Horus]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

I'm not even slightly anti-immigration. My views on the matter match up very well with Obama's 2008 campaign, or with western European social democratic parties.

So nearly 15 years out of date?

His sensible, centrist views on immigration helped him win a landslide victory.

What about those policies did you disagree with?

[jojoju1998]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Generally speaking, why did the Dems make such a leftward shift on border policies in the mid 2010s? What was the culprit of that decision?

After the 2014 midterms, it looked like Obama was going to try and compromise (if he could) with a new GOP Senate on his immigration bill. There were some parts of it that were very tough on things such as illegal hiring and border security.

Instead, he dropped the idea of compromise (whether or not it would have worked) and took a hardline approach with executive orders on basic amnesty and non-enforcement. This culminated with the election of Donald Trump in November 2016.

The Republican Party mangled the 2013 Compromise Immigration reform package that was passed in the Senate with flying colors.

[Ferguson97]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

I'm not even slightly anti-immigration. My views on the matter match up very well with Obama's 2008 campaign, or with western European social democratic parties.

So nearly 15 years out of date?

His sensible, centrist views on immigration helped him win a landslide victory.

What about those policies did you disagree with?

Immigration was not a central campaign issue in 2008. And in any case, we're talking about the morality of the policies in and of themselves, not their electability.

[Horus]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

I'm not even slightly anti-immigration. My views on the matter match up very well with Obama's 2008 campaign, or with western European social democratic parties.

So nearly 15 years out of date?

His sensible, centrist views on immigration helped him win a landslide victory.

What about those policies did you disagree with?

Immigration was not a central campaign issue in 2008. And in any case, we're talking about the morality of the policies in and of themselves, not their electability.

What about his immigration platform did you find immoral?

And electability matters a whole hell of a lot. If Democrats had moderated just a tad on immigration, we very well may not have ended up with Trump, who did more to hurt immigrants than any president in recent memory. I get that you're extremely idealistic, but this is just a fact.

[Progressive Pessimist]

The idea that a border wall would make any noticable dent in undocumented border crossings is ludicrous.

You're assuming that Americans are rational and understand reality or the practical ramifications of policy. Facts and statistics don't sell. Dumbass overly simplistic slogans disguised as solutions are all our Troglodyte population can comprehend.

[Aurelius]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

Have they, though? More seems like a right-wing talking point to me. Trump has been the wacko for proposing a border wall of a few thousand miles instead of effectively dealing with this issue.

Right-wing talking points are often correct. At the Dem primary debates, nearly every Democrat voiced support for decriminalizing illegal immigration. Several supported removing existing barriers. Biden may not support that stuff but that's the party he's dealing with.

[Aurelius]

The idea that a border wall would make any noticable dent in undocumented border crossings is ludicrous.

You're assuming that Americans are rational and understand reality or the practical ramifications of policy. Facts and statistics don't sell. Dumbass overly simplistic slogans disguised as solutions are all our Troglodyte population can comprehend.

The all-knowing smart one has spoken.

No wonder Democrats underperform so often when this is how so many of them think about ordinary people!

[Aurelius]

The idea that a border wall would make any noticable dent in undocumented border crossings is ludicrous.

lmao

[Alben Barkley]

The idea that a border wall would make any noticable dent in undocumented border crossings is ludicrous.

lmao

Have you considered that there may be many other socioeconomic reasons for that? Such as the Great Recession limiting job opportunities? Also note the slight increase AFTER Trump was elected!

Anyway, as noted, the poll in the OP is pure junk for its laughable track record. Sadly unsurprised this thread (which shouldn't even exist; there is nothing noteworthy enough about this poll to earn its own thread) turned into an argument about how ackshually, we Democrats should just throw immigrants under the bus anyway.

Marcus, my man: You are a child of immigrants. So is nearly everyone in this thread, I'm sure. America has always been a nation of immigrants. Open or near-open borders is a based policy, actually. And it's not about "elites" needing "cheap labor." It's about "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." It actually doesn't GET much more conservative or "classical liberal" than that! To believe America is a land of opportunity where everyone should get a fair shot at success, no matter what their background is. There's a reason immigrants are often some of the most patriotic Americans around, and a reason they want to come here in the first place for all our faults. They have seen the other side and they love us. Why should we reject them? We have land to accommodate upwards of a billion and if we had that kind of population, we could thwart the threat of China for good!

[Progressive Pessimist]

The idea that a border wall would make any noticable dent in undocumented border crossings is ludicrous.

You're assuming that Americans are rational and understand reality or the practical ramifications of policy. Facts and statistics don't sell. Dumbass overly simplistic slogans disguised as solutions are all our Troglodyte population can comprehend.

The all-knowing smart one has spoken.

No wonder Democrats underperform so often when this is how so many of them think about ordinary people!

Well, that's why I'm not running for office and never will. And I don't care if you're "ordinary" facts are facts and the immigration problem is a lot more complex than having a border wall to address it. And we can't have an honest policy debate about addressing the issue because all one side can offer is asinine s*** like that.

[John Dule]

Dems have gone wacko on borders. Had they simply held steady with the Obama policies none of this would be happening, but of course the elites need cheap labor.

I have to say you're pretty good on other issues so your consistent anti-immigration beliefs are always very disappointing.

I'm not even slightly anti-immigration. My views on the matter match up very well with Obama's 2008 campaign, or with western European social democratic parties.

So nearly 15 years out of date?

There is no expiration date on political positions. The mere fact that something was a consensus view 15 years ago does not make it "outdated" today.