Is Christopher Colombus a victim of Cancel Culture?

[Torie]

Option 3

Grumps, despite all evidence to the contrary, I believe that you are still educable. Yes, Columbus deserved to be cancelled not because he didn't discover that the world is round, and not because he was a colonialist and capitalist, and certainly not because he unwittingly engaged in germ warfare, but rather because he was a slaver and a murderer. In the context of the times, he should have been drawn and quartered, and his entrails thrown in a pot to be consumed by cannibals. I hope that helps. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/christopher-columbus-slavery-disease-trnd

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Option 3

Grumps, despite all evidence to the contrary, I believe that you are still educable. Yes, Columbus deserved to be cancelled not because he didn't discover that the world is round, and not because he was a colonialist and capitalist, and certainly not because he unwittingly engaged in germ warfare, but rather because he was a slaver and a murderer. In the context of the times, he should have been drawn and quartered, and his entrails thrown in a pot to be consumed by cannibals. I hope that helps.  

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/12/us/christopher-columbus-slavery-disease-trnd

It will be cancelled once we pass Voting Rights but Sinema Filibuster is preventing that, because they will swap Voting Rights Holiday with Columbus Day, but Thanksgiving the Indians did meet with Pilgrims too that is a white and Native Americans Holiday too, let's just enjoy Italians as Columbus was the Cleveland Indians got rid of their name on part of LeBron

[Figueira]

There's a very weird game of telephone that happens with Columbus. In the early twentieth century the default was to see as a generic nice Italian explorer who discovered America and proved the world was round despite everyone thinking the world was flat, but was still centuries before the founding of the US itself. Then some historians pointed out that he wasn't actually a good person, and that he wasn't actually the first European to reach the Americas (to say nothing of the millions of people who were already here to begin with), and didn't ever set foot in any of the modern US (besides territories), and that actually it was widely known that the world was round and that his entire voyage was due to a miscalculation of the size of the Earth.

Somehow in popular culture that got turned into "Columbus was a genocidal maniac who is completely irrelevant to history because Leif Eriksson got there first" vs. "Columbus was a good person and a conservative icon who should be celebrated as a founder of the United States" both of which are ahistorical and are conflating being a good person and being a historically important person. Obviously the "left" side of this argument is right that Columbus Day shouldn't be a thing, but there's still some nuance needed here.

[If my soul was made of stone]

and in another parallel, there was and is a tendency in Germany to rename "Von Braun" schools and streets due to his involvement in the use of concentration camp inmates as slave labour to build rockets

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Braun_Center


Huntsville is a very strange place.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled?  

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator.

sure, but nothing came of it so I don't think it should be an important part of the already good arguments against Columbus being a historical "hero".  He was a piece of sh**t and he was wrong, he "proved" nothing and only accidentally discovered a continent, and he didn't even believe that he did.

That's fair. And we're also forgetting that Columbus Day is essentially an Italian-American holiday. (This is what criminal Andrew Cuomo complained about.) So the Nordics got Leif Erikson Day and the Italians got Columbus Day. But it is very strange that Columbus should be their representative, when there are so many others. Why not an Amerigo Vespucci Day?

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled? 

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator.

sure, but nothing came of it so I don't think it should be an important part of the already good arguments against Columbus being a historical "hero".  He was a piece of sh**t and he was wrong, he "proved" nothing and only accidentally discovered a continent, and he didn't even believe that he did.

That's fair. And we're also forgetting that Columbus Day is essentially an Italian-American holiday. (This is what criminal Adam Cuomo complained about.) So the Nordics got Leif Erikson Day and the Italians got Columbus Day. But it is very strange that Columbus should be their representative, when there are so many others. Why not an Amerigo Vespucci Day?

Agreed, it's long past due for a Silvio Berlusconi Day

[If my soul was made of stone]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled? 

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator.

sure, but nothing came of it so I don't think it should be an important part of the already good arguments against Columbus being a historical "hero".  He was a piece of sh**t and he was wrong, he "proved" nothing and only accidentally discovered a continent, and he didn't even believe that he did.

That's fair. And we're also forgetting that Columbus Day is essentially an Italian-American holiday. (This is what criminal Adam Cuomo complained about.) So the Nordics got Leif Erikson Day and the Italians got Columbus Day. But it is very strange that Columbus should be their representative, when there are so many others. Why not an Amerigo Vespucci Day?

Agreed, it's long past due for a Silvio Berlusconi Day

Broke: Lee–Jackson–King Day
Woke: Columbus–Berlusconi–Cuomo Day

[Benjamin Frank]

I think the victims of the attempted genocide that followed were much more victims of literal cancel culture.

[dead0man]

That's fair. And we're also forgetting that Columbus Day is essentially an Italian-American holiday. (This is what criminal Adam Cuomo complained about.) So the Nordics got Leif Erikson Day and the Italians got Columbus Day. But it is very strange that Columbus should be their representative, when there are so many others. Why not an Amerigo Vespucci Day?

but why do/should Italians get their own day?  What are they, the fifth largest ethnic demographic in the US?  I do agree that Columbus would is a bad example of an Italian worth celebrating, but apparently he's the best Italian American ever.  I'd be embarrassed if I was Italian American.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Christopher Columbus is literally among the most evil people of all time, and the historical re-evaluation he is getting to transform him from being seen as a great scientist to being seen as a horrible monster is 1000% deserved.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled? 

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator.

sure, but nothing came of it so I don't think it should be an important part of the already good arguments against Columbus being a historical "hero".  He was a piece of sh**t and he was wrong, he "proved" nothing and only accidentally discovered a continent, and he didn't even believe that he did.

Considering how much dead0man hates "wokeness," if even he is critical of Christopher Columbus, I think it's safe to say that he deserves to be negatively analyzed how he has been in the modern day.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

That's fair. And we're also forgetting that Columbus Day is essentially an Italian-American holiday. (This is what criminal Adam Cuomo complained about.) So the Nordics got Leif Erikson Day and the Italians got Columbus Day. But it is very strange that Columbus should be their representative, when there are so many others. Why not an Amerigo Vespucci Day?

but why do/should Italians get their own day?  What are they, the fifth largest ethnic demographic in the US?  I do agree that Columbus would is a bad example of an Italian worth celebrating, but apparently he's the best Italian American ever.  I'd be embarrassed if I was Italian American.

Italians got Columbus Day because Benjamin Harrison wanted to ease domestic and international tensions after a bunch of Italians got lynched in New Orleans in 1891.

[Figueira]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled? 

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator.

sure, but nothing came of it so I don't think it should be an important part of the already good arguments against Columbus being a historical "hero".  He was a piece of sh**t and he was wrong, he "proved" nothing and only accidentally discovered a continent, and he didn't even believe that he did.

That's fair. And we're also forgetting that Columbus Day is essentially an Italian-American holiday. (This is what criminal Adam Cuomo complained about.) So the Nordics got Leif Erikson Day and the Italians got Columbus Day. But it is very strange that Columbus should be their representative, when there are so many others. Why not an Amerigo Vespucci Day?

How about someone who is actually relevant to modern Italian-Americans?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

How about someone who is actually relevant to modern Italian-Americans?

Yeah, why not? I'm not Italian so I don't really have a dog in this fight, other than that Columbus Day should be changed to Indigenous Peoples Day and Italian-Americans should celebrate someone less terrible, which isn't hard.

[vitoNova]

He was a real scumbag, if you ever read his primary historical sources (raping indigenous women and laughing about it)

Leif Erikson is the only European I will ever recognize as the true European discoverer of the Americas.

And yes, if you disagree with with me, your opinion is wrong.  

[beaver2.0]

Yes but in this case I am fine with it.

Also, I refuse to recognize Lief Ericsson day.  The reason Columbus is important is that his voyages opened the age of colonization which led to the settlement of the US.  Ericsson’s voyage had no similar long-term impact.

[sting in the rafters]

How about someone who is actually relevant to modern Italian-Americans?

Because if it were up to us we'd have a day celebrating a fictional boxer.

[nicholas.slaydon]

Yes, unfortunately the opportunistic lies and exaggerations of Francisco de Bobadilla continue to live on I the present day. Columbus was certainly no great administrator or politician, but a vast majority of the heinous crimes levied against him were the result of colonial rebellions against him forcing his hand, or just downright lies told by his rivals, meant to slander him before the Queen.

[Del Tachi]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled? 

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents of history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

#1 and #4 are just plain wrong. 

Columbus writes in the journal of his third voyage (1498) that America was "a mighty continent" "hitherto unknown."

The atrocities of Columbus are largely mythical and more correctly ascribed to Nicolas de Ovando, who was the Spanish governor of Hispaniola from 1501 to 1509.  A lot of the bad stuff attributed to Columbus is Black Legend revisionism pushed by later English and Dutch colonists.   

[Del Tachi]

Option 3

Why doesn't a genocidal maniac deserve to be cancelled? 

For all the same reasons Mongolians continue to celebrate Genghis Khan.

He discovered America, launching the modern era and changing the course of history. We owe our existence as a nation to him.

but:
1.he died thinking he wasn't in America but Asia
2.because he was very very very wrong about the size of the world
3.because everyone knew the world was round in 1492 and how big it was, they were right, he was not
4.nevermind the whole "he was bad even for his day" which is saying a lot


If he was just wrong and an otherwise nice guy, sure, celebrate him as one of the great accidents history, still wouldn't deserve a Federal holiday.  But the fact that he was amazingly dumb and cruel for his day makes celebrating him very wrong.  And it's not like someone else wouldn't have tried to go west eventually, and probably sooner than later.

Leif Erikson became the first European to discover America half a millennium before Columbus did, and he didn't become a brutal dictator. Leif Erikson Day is on the 9th of October, one day before Columbus Day, but most people only heard about it from Spongebob.

It doesn't count as "discovering" something if you pack up, leave, and nothing ever becomes of it.  Before Columbus set sail in 1492, no one on either side of the Atlantic knew the other was there

[Del Tachi]

Christopher Columbus was a tool in the most literal sense. If he was a victim of anything after his death, it was an inflated reputation in the United States from politicians attempting awkward appeals to ethnic Italians. For much of our history we understood that while Columbus played a pivotal role in exploring the continent, the English colonists deserved the credit for actually delivering civilization to much of this continent. The current anti-Columbus fervor is an abrupt regression toward the historical mean.

Ah, so all the places and things named after Columbus (i.e., Colombia, British Columbia, the District of Columbia, Columbus, OH; Columbia the personification of America, etc) didn't exist before American politicians wanted to court the Italian vote?  Nonsense.  Columbia was a highly venerated figure very early in our nation's history.

[Sestak]

Christopher Columbus was a tool in the most literal sense. If he was a victim of anything after his death, it was an inflated reputation in the United States from politicians attempting awkward appeals to ethnic Italians. For much of our history we understood that while Columbus played a pivotal role in exploring the continent, the English colonists deserved the credit for actually delivering civilization to much of this continent. The current anti-Columbus fervor is an abrupt regression toward the historical mean.

Ah, so all the places and things named after Columbus (i.e., Colombia, British Columbia, the District of Columbia, Columbus, OH; Columbia the personification of America, etc) didn't exist before American politicians wanted to court the Italian vote?  Nonsense.  Columbia was a highly venerated figure very early in our nation's history.

This feels a bit of a stretch. Is the US being called "America" now or even being named "The United States of America" in 1776 really supposed to be seen as a statement of veneration towards Vespucci?

[Diabolical Materialism]

He is dead

[Del Tachi]

Christopher Columbus was a tool in the most literal sense. If he was a victim of anything after his death, it was an inflated reputation in the United States from politicians attempting awkward appeals to ethnic Italians. For much of our history we understood that while Columbus played a pivotal role in exploring the continent, the English colonists deserved the credit for actually delivering civilization to much of this continent. The current anti-Columbus fervor is an abrupt regression toward the historical mean.

Ah, so all the places and things named after Columbus (i.e., Colombia, British Columbia, the District of Columbia, Columbus, OH; Columbia the personification of America, etc) didn't exist before American politicians wanted to court the Italian vote?  Nonsense.  Columbia was a highly venerated figure very early in our nation's history.

This feels a bit of a stretch. Is the US being called "America" now or even being named "The United States of America" in 1776 really supposed to be seen as a statement of veneration towards Vespucci?

There is a growing myth that Columbus was a historical nobody who was plucked from obscurity in the 19th/early 20th century when Italians needed an "American" hero to help bring them in the White mainstream.  That idea simply isn't true and deserves pushback.  Columbus was a widely known about and celebrated figure less than 100 years after his death.  That there are many places/ideas (dating to the mid-1700s) that bear Columbus' name is suggestive of his enduring centrality in America's foundational story.