Florida court rules 16 y/o has not proved she is "sufficiently mature" to have an abortion

[Fuzzy Bear]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

This is just plain evil

There are multiple things :

1. If you believe a fetus is a life then no it’s not an evil position at all especially if there is no reason to think it can threaten the mother’s life

2. We have no idea how many weeks it has been as that is very important

3. The dispute was because her legal guardian said no

I don't give a f**k if some nutcase believes the fetus is a life. There is nothing that compels me to respect outlandish beliefs that cause so much pain and suffering. This is a 16 year old minor- a child. Holy sh**t, put yourself in her boots. It's completely monstrous to force her to give birth in this age,  and if she wants an abortion I hope she can find it in a state that respects her as a human and not an incubator.

And fundamentalist crusaders like Fuzzy would do well to, at the very least, stay dignified instead of cheering for this poor child's suffering.

The child's suffering is inevitable, to the degree that a pregnancy at this age is not likely, and under those circumstances, is not viable.  She's pregnant at 16 (almost 17, per the dissenting opinion) and she stated that the father "is unable to assist her" at the time of her petition.  This begs a question of why the father is "unable to assist" in child rearing, but the Court docs offer no reason for this.  The child is "parentless" and being raised by a relative who is a guardian (according to the Court docs).  These are not happy circumstances; indeed, they're rather sad.  How that affects the humanity of that child is beyond me. 

All that being said, the unborn child is no less human than if it were planned and wanted by two yuppies who owned their home and made six-figure incomes. 

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

I fail to understand how this girl is somehow mature enough to carry a pregnancy yet not mature enough to have an abortion.

[DaleCooper]

I fail to understand how this girl is somehow mature enough to carry a pregnancy yet not mature enough to have an abortion.

It's just more conservative legislation from the bench.

[Gass3268]

Hopefully someone helps get her to a civilized state like Illinois, New York or Maryland so she can receive proper care.

[Ferguson97]

I fail to understand how this girl is somehow mature enough to carry a pregnancy yet not mature enough to have an abortion.

You don't understand it because it's not supposed to make sense. They came up with the reason by working backwards from a conclusion they already decided on.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

The only reason many conservatives are pro-life is because their agenda requires a contingent of millions of wage slaves to fund the retirements of Boomers.

[Indy Texas 🇺🇦🇵🇸]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

[OSR stands with Israel]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

Michael Cassidy did but the fact is the vast majority of Republican voters are economically conservative as well

[Person Man]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

Michael Cassidy did but the fact is the vast majority of Republican voters are economically conservative as well

It’s not like you only find these non-neoliberal Christian nationalists on the internet.

[OSR stands with Israel]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

Michael Cassidy did but the fact is the vast majority of Republican voters are economically conservative as well

It’s not like you only find these non-neoliberal Christian nationalists on the internet.

Cause like I said republicans are a coalition of religious people and individualists

[GoTfan]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

Michael Cassidy did but the fact is the vast majority of Republican voters are economically conservative as well

It’s not like you only find these non-neoliberal Christian nationalists on the internet.

Cause like I said republicans are a coalition of religious people and individualists

Ha!

The GOP is a coalition of fundies, nutters, authoritarians, and some ther interesting people at best.

[7,052,770]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

Michael Cassidy did but the fact is the vast majority of Republican voters are economically conservative as well

He said that stuff in the past before he ran for office, but he certainly didn't campaign on it, in fact strongly denying having ever believed it.

[Fuzzy Bear]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

A true Christian would promote all life, conception to natural death. But I don’t see your party supporting paid leave, universal pre K, or any of that.

Fuzzy supports most of that though so it’s not really a gotcha and he is a Republican not cause he likes their party but views them as a lesser evil . We have a two party system and we don’t have a religious left party so that’s why Fuzzy is a Republican, not cause he likes the GOP.

The fact is republicans are basically a coalition of individualism and religious people and yes it’s an incoherent mix but that’s what happens when you have a two party system with no religious left

Why isn't he or anyone else making an effort to nominate Republicans who do support those things?

Go through all the GOP primary races at any level this year. There are various flavors of Trumpist and Tea Party and Chamber of Commerce shill. But not a single Republican who says something like, "We should ban abortion in all instances. We should also fund universal healthcare." I'm not even talking about those people failing to raise enough money to win the primary - they're not even running to begin with.

If there are allegedly so many people like Fuzzy, why do we never hear from them? Why isn't a single one of them running for office?

There is not a consensus for the position you describe (which is, more or less, my position) in EITHER party.  The GOP is closed to universal healthcare at present and the Democrats aren't going to retreat one inch on abortion.

There are, in fact, many PEOPLE who believe as I do, but neither party is offering a combination of pro-life views coupled with universal healthcare.  Such a compromise MIGHT have saved Bill Clinton's healthcare proposal, but the Feminist Left insisted that it included funding for abortion.  Since the 1990s, that ship has sailed.  I can't think of a single pro-life Democrat in the Congress and I can't think of a single Republican in favor of expanding what we have (let alone put into effect some kind of single payor program).

The line of cleavage between the parties is no longer economice; it's the social issues.  The effect of this is to take economic issues pretty much off the table.

[Torie]

Is there a law in Florida that says a minor must meet a "maturity" threshold in order to have an abortion? If not, it does not sound to me that the judge is following the law. Rather, he is a pro-life nutcase that is pushing his opinion on someone else.

If you read the dissent, rather than the conclusory majority opinion, beyond per adventure, the majority blew off the facts, to wit, that the young woman was unusually  mature for her age. If she is not deemed mature, then no minor can be deemed mature, and the law as written is effectively a dead letter. It is a case of "activist" judges on steroids. And thus the reversion to the merits of abortion, and the personhood of the fetus, rather than the text of the law. In this case, being a judicial textualist consigns one to Dante's inferno. We live in interesting times.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Is there a law in Florida that says a minor must meet a "maturity" threshold in order to have an abortion? If not, it does not sound to me that the judge is following the law. Rather, he is a pro-life nutcase that is pushing his opinion on someone else.

If you read the dissent, rather than the conclusory majority opinion, beyond per adventure, the majority blew off the facts, to wit, that the young woman was usually  mature for her age. If she is not deemed mature, then no minor can be deemed mature, and the law as written is effectively a dead letter. It is a case of "activist" judges on steroids. And thus the reversion to the merits of abortion, and the personhood of the fetus, rather than the text of the law. In this case, being a judicial textualist consigns one to Dante's inferno. We live in interesting times.

This decision did come from the 1st District Court of Appeals, which is the Westernmost Panhandle of Florida.

[Torie]

Is there a law in Florida that says a minor must meet a "maturity" threshold in order to have an abortion? If not, it does not sound to me that the judge is following the law. Rather, he is a pro-life nutcase that is pushing his opinion on someone else.

If you read the dissent, rather than the conclusory majority opinion, beyond per adventure, the majority blew off the facts, to wit, that the young woman was usually  mature for her age. If she is not deemed mature, then no minor can be deemed mature, and the law as written is effectively a dead letter. It is a case of "activist" judges on steroids. And thus the reversion to the merits of abortion, and the personhood of the fetus, rather than the text of the law. In this case, being a judicial textualist consigns one to Dante's inferno. We live in interesting times.

This decision did come from the 1st District Court of Appeals, which is the Westernmost Panhandle of Florida.

Indeed. I rest my case.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Is there a law in Florida that says a minor must meet a "maturity" threshold in order to have an abortion? If not, it does not sound to me that the judge is following the law. Rather, he is a pro-life nutcase that is pushing his opinion on someone else.

If you read the dissent, rather than the conclusory majority opinion, beyond per adventure, the majority blew off the facts, to wit, that the young woman was usually  mature for her age. If she is not deemed mature, then no minor can be deemed mature, and the law as written is effectively a dead letter. It is a case of "activist" judges on steroids. And thus the reversion to the merits of abortion, and the personhood of the fetus, rather than the text of the law. In this case, being a judicial textualist consigns one to Dante's inferno. We live in interesting times.

This decision did come from the 1st District Court of Appeals, which is the Westernmost Panhandle of Florida.

Indeed. I rest my case.

I'm pro-life, so I concur in the result, but I will grant you that this Court does appear to have not followed the law as scrupulously as possible. 

[Middle-aged Europe]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

< insert some comment about Uvalde here >

[Progressive Pessimist]

god hates florida

The platypus wasn't his biggest mistake.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

I have seen several people discuss literally k**ling themselves instead of keeping the baby if they are forced to have it due to rape. While obviously this isn’t the same thing I do think all “pro lifers” need to understand just how traumatizing this is. You are ruining two lives, and some may even decide to end it because of how f**ked up you made it to be a struggling mother in our society.

The number of lives that would be tragically lost to suicide from banning abortion is dwarfed by the number of lives that would be saved by banning abortion.

And yet those are still people you are actively killing. Until you greatly reform the social systems so that being a working class single mother is not a life practically forced into poverty, then I don’t want to hear it. Talk to me when you are willing to help the family, and most importantly the child.

Working class people get:

- Free Healthcare
- Food Stamps
- Single Mother benefits
- Section 8 Housing vouchers
- etc.

What else do you think we should give them? I’ll all for helping the poor, but we are already are helping them, and I don’t know if we could do much more that would be economically feasible.

They often don't get any of those 4 things outside of blue states

And frankly, plenty of blue states butcher these benefits, too. California, for example, has really bad Medicaid outcomes because of how low its reimbursement rates are.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

I have seen several people discuss literally k**ling themselves instead of keeping the baby if they are forced to have it due to rape. While obviously this isn’t the same thing I do think all “pro lifers” need to understand just how traumatizing this is. You are ruining two lives, and some may even decide to end it because of how f**ked up you made it to be a struggling mother in our society.

The number of lives that would be tragically lost to suicide from banning abortion is dwarfed by the number of lives that would be saved by banning abortion.

And yet those are still people you are actively killing. Until you greatly reform the social systems so that being a working class single mother is not a life practically forced into poverty, then I don’t want to hear it. Talk to me when you are willing to help the family, and most importantly the child.

Working class people get:

- Free Healthcare
- Food Stamps
- Single Mother benefits
- Section 8 Housing vouchers
- etc.

What else do you think we should give them? I’ll all for helping the poor, but we are already are helping them, and I don’t know if we could do much more that would be economically feasible.

1. "Free healthcare" is an extremely generous oversimplification of Medicaid.

2. Otherwise good programs (like SNAP) that rely on the poverty line for eligibility are bound to have massive gaps because of how nonsensically the poverty line is determined and consequently how laughably inadequate it is in the modern day.

What more could we do? Maybe we could, you know... actually bring back federal cash entitlements.

[Fuzzy Bear]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

< insert some comment about Uvalde here >

Had here been more armed citizens in Uvalde with guns, people with courage would have entered the school while the police were inexplicably cowering and far fewer lives would have been lost.

There!  Comment inserted.

[Ferguson97]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

< insert some comment about Uvalde here >

Had here been more armed citizens in Uvalde with guns, people with courage would have entered the school while the police were inexplicably cowering and far fewer lives would have been lost.

There!  Comment inserted.

Lmao yeah that’s just what that situation needed, confusing law enforcement and having them think that there’s a second shooter.

[7,052,770]

so let me get this straight, she's not mature enough to consider an abortion, but she is mature enough to be forced to raise a child? WTF?

Her parents are responsible for that child as well under Florida Law, at least until she is 18.

A human life has been saved.  Glory to God!

< insert some comment about Uvalde here >

Had here been more armed citizens in Uvalde with guns, people with courage would have entered the school while the police were inexplicably cowering and far fewer lives would have been lost.

There!  Comment inserted.

Wait, Texas has too much gun control and THAT'S why Uvalde happened?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Is there a law in Florida that says a minor must meet a "maturity" threshold in order to have an abortion? If not, it does not sound to me that the judge is following the law. Rather, he is a pro-life nutcase that is pushing his opinion on someone else.

The maturity requirement applies when there is a request for judicial waiver of the parental/guardian consent requirement.

This is from the Parental Notice of and Consent for Abortion Act, under section (6) "PROCEDURE FOR JUDICIAL WAIVER":

c) If the court finds, by clear and convincing evidence, that the minor is sufficiently mature to decide whether to terminate her pregnancy, the court shall issue an order authorizing the minor to consent to the performance or inducement of a termination of the pregnancy. If the court does not make the finding specified in this paragraph or paragraph (d), it must dismiss the petition. Factors the court shall consider include:
1. The minor’s:
a. Age.
b. Overall intelligence.
c. Emotional development and stability.
d. Credibility and demeanor as a witness.
e. Ability to accept responsibility.
f. Ability to assess both the immediate and long-range consequences of the minor’s choices.
g. Ability to understand and explain the medical risks of terminating her pregnancy and to apply that understanding to her decision.
2. Whether there may be any undue influence by another on the minor’s decision to have an abortion.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0300-0399/0390/Sections/0390.01114.html