America needs more immigrants

[Agafin]

I recently learned that legal immigration to the USA collapsed to just 245k in 2021. That's a really low number, even when taking covid 19 into account. This has effectively caused America's population growth to grind to a halt (just 0.1% that year). I'm kind of surprised that American patriots don't see this as a pressing concern. Part of the reason why the USA has remained so dominant for so long is that it is a region that millions pf people the world over want to migrate to and these people allow America to evade the demographic problems that plague the developed countries in Western Europe or South East Asia (in addition to the countless advantages that one can think of). I honestly think that the USA could and should take in up to or even over 2 million people a year and it'd still be a net benefit to the country. This is especially true at this moment with the massive labor shortage in the country. Obviously I'm talking about legal and selective immigration, not people who would be a burden to the economy. The fact that Canada with a tenth of the population of America took in way more people (405k*) is astonishing. For what it's worth, the US recent immigrant peak was roughly 1.2m back in 2016.

*I actually think Canada has the opposite problem of America. Taking in the equivalent of 1% of your country's population in immigrants per year when you have such a pervasive housing crisis is madness. But that's a discussion for another day.

[Nyvin]

We should let in more immigrants from culturally similar countries, like those of Europe and certain groups of Latin America (those that are more developed and more Western). Over 2m immigrants is a good number.

Similar to who?  Similar to white people?

[Torie]

Whatever the "perfect" number (a laughably unrealistic concept, but whatever), it's based on an algorithm, not a fixed number like the speed of light. If an extra 10 million of the most talented, productive, perspicacious, civic minded and selfless humans on the planet wanted to move to the US tomorrow, to make it a bit closer to being a shining city on the hill (yeah I know), I would let them in by the end of the week.

[Schiff for Senate]

We should let in more immigrants from culturally similar countries, like those of Europe and certain groups of Latin America (those that are more developed and more Western). Over 2m immigrants is a good number.

So whiter, more Christian folks, right? Just make sure there aren't any Muslims or black and brown people and immigration shouldn't be a problem. This is disgusting. You don't get to pick and choose where immigrants can come from. Would you be okay with, say, Ukrainian refugees because they're 'culturally similar' but not with Afghan refugees because they aren't? It's bigotry, racism and Islamaphobia. I don't see why there's a fundamental difference between, say, Western European immigrants, and Middle Eastern or South Asian immigrants. Please enlighten me as to why they should be treated differently and why one of the groups should be favoured.

[Bismarck]

I care less about the total number and more about the method of selection and the expectations once arrived. I’m happy to welcome as many talented people as exist provided that they want to become Americans and not just live here (this means their children should be Americans, I don’t expect first generation to be fully Americanized but their kids should be) speak english, and are bringing a skill set that complements our economy rather than competing with American workers. Immigration is required for us to remain competitive but in the current condition of our country there are many challenges. The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

[Zaybay]

We should let in more immigrants from culturally similar countries, like those of Europe and certain groups of Latin America (those that are more developed and more Western). Over 2m immigrants is a good number.

Ignoring the obvious racial issues with this statement, its also not a good way in the slightest to get higher immigration levels.

Leaving your home country for a new one is a very difficult decision. You largely have to abandon everything you've ever known, everyone you've made connections with, and everyone you've ever really cared about. And its not even guaranteed if you'll be able to succeed in your new country. That's why immigrants tend to come from countries with fewer opportunities, highly repressive governments or with higher levels of poverty. Those in rich, stable, and plentiful (in opportunity) countries--as are most of the countries usually considered "The West"--are not going to drop everything in their home country for what is essentially a lateral move.

To illustrate this, Canada is rather liberal in the number of immigrants it accepts, but uses the merit-based system which purposefully prefers more educated candidates. Theoretically, this system should be beneficial to "Westerners", who have relatively high education rates compared to much of the world. According to the Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Department of Canada in late 2020, of the 400K immigrants they planned to take in during the year of 2021, over half of them came from just 5 countries: India (100K), China (36K), The Philippines (33K), Nigeria (15K), and Pakistan (13K). The US is 6th on the list, with around 13K, the only "Western" nation to be sending more than 10K.

Fundamentally, if you want to hit that 2M quota, you're gonna need to take in peoples from places that are not "Western". That's really the end of it.

[Bismarck]

We should let in more immigrants from culturally similar countries, like those of Europe and certain groups of Latin America (those that are more developed and more Western). Over 2m immigrants is a good number.

Similar to who?  Similar to white people?

I agree with you that having different rules for different countries is wrong but are you questioning the idea that western countries are more similar to us culturally? Americans regardless of their ethnic background have a western culture. Black Americans are more similar to Europeans than Africans, the grandchild of a Chinese immigrant is just as western as the grandchild of an Italian immigrant. It isn’t like immigrants don’t assimilate into our culture (which is for and of everyone here  even if the people with whom it originated happened to have white skin and be primarily from the British isles)

[It’s so Joever]

I care less about the total number and more about the method of selection and the expectations once arrived. I’m happy to welcome as many talented people as exist provided that they want to become Americans and not just live here (this means their children should be Americans, I don’t expect first generation to be fully Americanized but their kids should be) speak english, and are bringing a skill set that complements our economy rather than competing with American workers. Immigration is required for us to remain competitive but in the current condition of our country there are many challenges. The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the hyphen meaning. When I say I am Asian American, I am not saying I have dual loyalty, I am an American first at the end of the day. However, I am emphasizing that it still is a part of my identity. It’s a part of the culture I was raised with and has influenced who I am today. I think a lot of Asian Americans feel similarly. Now you might be asking why not distinguish between nationalities instead of an arbitrary “Asian” category, and that’s fair honestly. In my ideal world, nobody would identify as “Asian” but instead their respective culture (Viet-American, Chinese-American, Hmong-American etc)
The reason that isn’t a thing currently is because of our society. From the beginning, Americans lumped East Asians into one box and more or less saw them as similar and treated them similarly. This combined with the anti-orientalism that persisted throughout the decades and even today exists on the individual level (but much less than before!) basically created a shared experience along with a shared outside perception. That created the idea of Asian American, and thing is, once you start it the cycle reinforces itself. Asian American becomes a term internalized by the group, that only further reinforces the idea of Asian American being a thing to the outside world, and it repeats until it’s a thing in itself.

The goal of removing the “race” boxes isn’t a bad one by any means for how we define race is subjective, but dismantling those labels simply is going to be a long and complex road. Ironically you agree with “SJWs” (Not a bad thing in this case!) in many ways, which shows that there is support for such a change that transcends polarization, but it still will be a long process. And ofc cultural hyphens will still exist as long as the minor cultural difference exists. Italian-American is still a thing (as it should be!) for good reason.

[Bismarck]

I care less about the total number and more about the method of selection and the expectations once arrived. I’m happy to welcome as many talented people as exist provided that they want to become Americans and not just live here (this means their children should be Americans, I don’t expect first generation to be fully Americanized but their kids should be) speak english, and are bringing a skill set that complements our economy rather than competing with American workers. Immigration is required for us to remain competitive but in the current condition of our country there are many challenges. The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding the hyphen meaning. When I say I am Asian American, I am not saying I have dual loyalty, I am an American first at the end of the day. However, I am emphasizing that it still is a part of my identity. It’s a part of the culture I was raised with and has influenced who I am today. I think a lot of Asian Americans feel similarly. Now you might be asking why not distinguish between nationalities instead of an arbitrary “Asian” category, and that’s fair honestly. In my ideal world, nobody would identify as “Asian” but instead their respective culture (Viet-American, Chinese-American, Hmong-American etc)
The reason that isn’t a thing currently is because of our society. From the beginning, Americans lumped East Asians into one box and more or less saw them as similar and treated them similarly. This combined with the anti-orientalism that persisted throughout the decades and even today exists on the individual level (but much less than before!) basically created a shared experience along with a shared outside perception. That created the idea of Asian American, and thing is, once you start it the cycle reinforces itself. Asian American becomes a term internalized by the group, that only further reinforces the idea of Asian American being a thing to the outside world, and it repeats until it’s a thing in itself.

The goal of removing the “race” boxes isn’t a bad one by any means for how we define race is subjective, but dismantling those labels simply is going to be a long and complex road. Ironically you agree with “SJWs” (Not a bad thing in this case!) in many ways, which shows that there is support for such a change that transcends polarization, but it still will be a long process. And ofc cultural hyphens will still exist as long as the minor cultural difference exists. Italian-American is still a thing (as it should be!) for good reason.

I think we agree more than you think. I have no problem with “Italian American” or “Chinese American” it’s the arbitrary boxes based on skin color that turn me off because those groupings are exclusionary rather than inclusive.

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

Said racial politics reflect how multiracial WEIRD societies (e.g. Canada) work, and are partly rooted in the historic dynamic between ADOS and Caucasian Americans. I wouldn’t expect this to change even after Black America converges with the US as the whole on key socioeconomic indicators. 

Also Forumlurker (being mixed-race) seems to be using an inclusive definition of “Asian American”. Who’s to say he’s more or less Asian American than VP Harris?

Voted Option 3.

[Bismarck]

The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

Said racial politics reflect how multiracial WEIRD societies (e.g. Canada) work, and are partly rooted in the historic dynamic between ADOS and Caucasian Americans. I wouldn’t expect this to change even after Black America converges with the US as the whole on key socioeconomic indicators. 

Also Forumlurker (being mixed-race) seems to be using an inclusive definition of “Asian American”. Who’s to say he’s more or less Asian American than VP Harris?

Voted Option 3.

I don’t disagree about black Americans (or native Americans). Their historical circumstance does justify some separate identity within the American framework. With immigrants from Asia or Latin America however I don’t understand the impulse to put them into boxes the way historical tragedy has put black Americans in a box. For our country to work we need these new Americans and their descendants to see themselves as being in the same tribe as white and black Americans. Otherwise the “replacement theory” nutjobs are going to start appealing to more and more people.

[jamestroll]

We should have completely open borders to Mexico and many countries in Latin America.

We have too many white people in the United States as it is. We do not need more European whiteys here.

[Agafin]

We should let in more immigrants from culturally similar countries, like those of Europe and certain groups of Latin America (those that are more developed and more Western). Over 2m immigrants is a good number.

People from South and Southeast Asia, while culturally different from the West can be a huge asset and have shown that they can seamlessly blend into their new environment. Just look at someone like Rishi Sunak who is pretty much the quintessential British conservative, no questions asked.

Based on my own experience, Africans would likely be the hardest to integrate but if you mostly take in the educated ones and make them pledge their support to Western liberal values prior to entry (while making it clear that violations are ground for deportation), then you should be fine. Their kids would be 100% similar to other Americans.

[Agafin]

We should have completely open borders to Mexico and many countries in Latin America.

We have too many white people in the United States as it is. We do not need more European whiteys here.

Not sure if you're joking or not but this seems like the kind of rhetoric that makes people opposed to immigration I think. Pro-immigration leftists should really abandon these kinds of divisive talking points.

[Del Tachi]

Accept 50M a year but only from Brazil/Argentina

[Agafin]

We should have completely open borders to Mexico and many countries in Latin America.

We have too many white people in the United States as it is. We do not need more European whiteys here.

Not sure if you're joking or not but this seems like the kind of rhetoric that makes people opposed to immigration I think. Pro-immigration leftists should really abandon these kinds of divisive talking points.

Jimmie is only into Latino guys. You can't fault a fella for trying to improve his dating prospects.

Oh I see lol. Well if that's the criteria we're using,  I hope the country opens its doors to as many hot Arab dudes as possible.

[patzer]

I feel like it'd make sense to open free migration between the USA and the EU, given that there would be likely equal amounts of immigration in each direction in that case.

[Tintrlvr]

I feel like it'd make sense to open free migration between the USA and the EU, given that there would be likely equal amounts of immigration in each direction in that case.

I think this would be a huge positive, too, but seeing how controversial free migration between the EU and Britain, which are much more similar, has been, this would clearly not be possible in practice, at least right now.

One might consider free migration between the US and Canada as a starting point.

[Zenobiyl]

We should have completely open borders to Mexico and many countries in Latin America.

We have too many white people in the United States as it is. We do not need more European whiteys here.

Obvious troll is obvious

[jamestroll]

We should have completely open borders to Mexico and many countries in Latin America.

We have too many white people in the United States as it is. We do not need more European whiteys here.

Obvious troll is obvious

I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS I AM SERIOUS.  CRAZY PEOPLE DO EXIST YOU KNOW

[Zenobiyl]

We should have completely open borders to Mexico and many countries in Latin America.

We have too many white people in the United States as it is. We do not need more European whiteys here.

Obvious troll is obvious

I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANYONE WHO KNOWS ME KNOWS I AM SERIOUS.  CRAZY PEOPLE DO EXIST YOU KNOW

Blocked + Ratio + You’re white

[Agafin]

I feel like it'd make sense to open free migration between the USA and the EU, given that there would be likely equal amounts of immigration in each direction in that case.

There would NOT be equal amounts of migration in both directions. The net migrational flow will definitely be from Europe to the US. Countries in Eastern Europe which are also in the EU (like Poland) will send lots of migrants to America which won't be reciprocated.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I feel like it'd make sense to open free migration between the USA and the EU, given that there would be likely equal amounts of immigration in each direction in that case.

There would NOT be equal amounts of migration in both directions. The net migrational flow will definitely be from Europe to the US. Countries in Eastern Europe which are also in the EU (like Poland) will send lots of migrants to America which won't be reciprocated.

What impact do you think this would have on American politics more generally?

[David Hume]

I feel like it'd make sense to open free migration between the USA and the EU, given that there would be likely equal amounts of immigration in each direction in that case.

I think this would be a huge positive, too, but seeing how controversial free migration between the EU and Britain, which are much more similar, has been, this would clearly not be possible in practice, at least right now.

One might consider free migration between the US and Canada as a starting point.

Migration between the US and Canada is already almost free. Canadian citizen can apply to TN visa, and work freely in US. There is no cap for TN and very easy to obtain.

[David Hume]

I care less about the total number and more about the method of selection and the expectations once arrived. I’m happy to welcome as many talented people as exist provided that they want to become Americans and not just live here (this means their children should be Americans, I don’t expect first generation to be fully Americanized but their kids should be) speak english, and are bringing a skill set that complements our economy rather than competing with American workers. Immigration is required for us to remain competitive but in the current condition of our country there are many challenges. The biggest two that concern me are 1. The importation of H1B visa holders as a replacement for educating native born americans (and the semi racist scorn in response about how Americans are just too dumb or lazy, give me a break) and the racial politics that encourage Asians and Hispanics to be permanently hyphenated americans. I hate the idea that a guy from Korea or China isn’t supposed to become an American, he’s supposed to become an “Asian american” which is a meaningless term only used to divide people into arbitrary racial categories.

I fully agree that the most important is the method of selection. Ironically, both party agrees that those who obtained a STEM PhD here should be allowed to stay if they prefer. However, D wants to tie STEM green card with illegal immigrants. R want to tie it with gutting diversity lottery and reducing chain imitation.

The result is no reform related to STEM PhD can pass. And STEM PhDs from countries like China and India have to wait many years to get a green card. Some couldn't even get a H1B visa to be able to work here, even if they found very high paying jobs. As a result, a lot of them are forced to go to other countries like Canada, or lured back by CCP.