SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[OSR stands with Israel]

What I would honestly like to see with respect to abortion policy is this:

Assemble a distinguished panel of obstetricians, neuroscientists, and philosophers studying philosophy of mind and phenomology and task them with assembling a report with their consensus opinion on when human life/consciousness begins.  

We should agree in advance that whatever their decision is will be binding national abortion policy, with abortion always permitted before this point, and prohibited beyond this point with narrow excpetions.

There should be no national abortion policy other than the basic exceptions are protected and third trimester abortions being banned. Other than that it should be fully up to the states

[7,052,770]

What I would honestly like to see with respect to abortion policy is this:

Assemble a distinguished panel of obstetricians, neuroscientists, and philosophers studying philosophy of mind and phenomology and task them with assembling a report with their consensus opinion on when human life/consciousness begins.  

We should agree in advance that whatever their decision is will be binding national abortion policy, with abortion always permitted before this point, and prohibited beyond this point with narrow excpetions.

There should be no national abortion policy other than the basic exceptions are protected and third trimester abortions being banned. Other than that it should be fully up to the states

Good luck convincing most of your party of that. Nobody who believes "abortion is murder" is ever going to be OK with banning it in their own state but still allowing it in half of the country.

[RFK Jr.’s Brain Worm]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Abortion is legalized murder. Why are you pro-murder?

Murder is based sometimes. Without it, we'd still have John Lennon.

The world isn’t a just place, sadly. Yoko is still at large, making eardrums bleed.

[Hindsight was 2020]

And yeah guys, I was obviously at "the insurrection". Total Trump fanboy here, which is why I never voted for him. Deranged hacks.

Press (x) for doubt

Really, so we're gonna start randomly speculating about who people did and didn't vote for even when they explicitly say otherwise? I think it's a pretty well-established rule that we should give people the benefit of the doubt when they say things like this.

It’s more than fair given electionguy posting history when it comes to either 01/06th, the legitimacy of the 2020 election, etc.. that read as about as generic of a partisan Trumper to have serious doubts on his calm that he didn’t actually vote for him

While you can lie about me, I have receipts. December, 2020:

The irresponsible and dangerous discourse on the right about the election being rigged is actively hurting their chances and causing a GOP civil war in this state and Arizona, and I do think there's a real chance that Democrats may win both of these seats because of that alone. I do think though when it comes down to it, vast majority people understand the existential nature of these elections and will not sit out and don't actually buy into their own BS about their vote not counting.

These elections are going to be difficult to predict. On one hand, you have historical GOP overperformance in runoffs and the fact that they already won more votes than Democrats in November, but on the other, the polling already looks slightly worse for them and it's never been the case before that Georgia runoffs decide Senate control, so everyone has reasons to vote. I reluctantly think the GOP wins both by 0-2%. And I don't buy that there'll be a large seperation between the two.

Jan 6th, before the capital storming:

Likely D.  Georgia is gone for the GOP.

This is nonsense. Republicans self-destructed these past two months. Maybe if the party can get their [   ] together and stop destroying people's trust in the system, and stop the intraparty fighting they can win again. You didn't have that on the Democratic side, and you didn't have that on the Republican side in November. Now you not only have this result you also have much more vulnerable statewide positions to defend in 2022 as a result of Trump's tantrums and intraparty fighting. This is the most consequential and damaging self-own I've ever seen in US congressional history. Republicans would've had these two seats if the same electorate would've shown up and very few people changed their minds. Instead, a combination of relatively higher turnout among Dems and disdain for the toxic rhetoric about a rigged election among independents gave Democrats both of these races. Republicans need to think about this going forward, about how badly they screwed this up and how costly it was and how it can be avoided in the future (hint: Don't have a selfish egomaniac as your presidential candidate!)

"partisan Trumper". How much more do you want to get embarrassed? I can post more examples.

You argued in multiple threads earlier this year that 2020 was rigged because Twitter and Facebook cracked down on bot spamming and the Hunter Biden lab-top story

[T'Chenka]

OSR, I won't lie... you're lookin' good these days, man.

(Commentator doesn't consider the "leaked addresses" aspect, but Tulsi repeats most of OSR's talking points very closely.)

[OSR stands with Israel]

And yeah guys, I was obviously at "the insurrection". Total Trump fanboy here, which is why I never voted for him. Deranged hacks.

Press (x) for doubt

Really, so we're gonna start randomly speculating about who people did and didn't vote for even when they explicitly say otherwise? I think it's a pretty well-established rule that we should give people the benefit of the doubt when they say things like this.

It’s more than fair given electionguy posting history when it comes to either 01/06th, the legitimacy of the 2020 election, etc.. that read as about as generic of a partisan Trumper to have serious doubts on his calm that he didn’t actually vote for him

While you can lie about me, I have receipts. December, 2020:

The irresponsible and dangerous discourse on the right about the election being rigged is actively hurting their chances and causing a GOP civil war in this state and Arizona, and I do think there's a real chance that Democrats may win both of these seats because of that alone. I do think though when it comes down to it, vast majority people understand the existential nature of these elections and will not sit out and don't actually buy into their own BS about their vote not counting.

These elections are going to be difficult to predict. On one hand, you have historical GOP overperformance in runoffs and the fact that they already won more votes than Democrats in November, but on the other, the polling already looks slightly worse for them and it's never been the case before that Georgia runoffs decide Senate control, so everyone has reasons to vote. I reluctantly think the GOP wins both by 0-2%. And I don't buy that there'll be a large seperation between the two.

Jan 6th, before the capital storming:

Likely D.  Georgia is gone for the GOP.

This is nonsense. Republicans self-destructed these past two months. Maybe if the party can get their [   ] together and stop destroying people's trust in the system, and stop the intraparty fighting they can win again. You didn't have that on the Democratic side, and you didn't have that on the Republican side in November. Now you not only have this result you also have much more vulnerable statewide positions to defend in 2022 as a result of Trump's tantrums and intraparty fighting. This is the most consequential and damaging self-own I've ever seen in US congressional history. Republicans would've had these two seats if the same electorate would've shown up and very few people changed their minds. Instead, a combination of relatively higher turnout among Dems and disdain for the toxic rhetoric about a rigged election among independents gave Democrats both of these races. Republicans need to think about this going forward, about how badly they screwed this up and how costly it was and how it can be avoided in the future (hint: Don't have a selfish egomaniac as your presidential candidate!)

"partisan Trumper". How much more do you want to get embarrassed? I can post more examples.

You argued in multiple threads earlier this year that 2020 was rigged because Twitter and Facebook cracked down on bot spamming and the Hunter Biden lab-top story

He didn’t say the election was stolen but the rather that  the news media and social media were extremely biased for one side . Saying that is not the same as being an election truther at all.


Republicans have been claiming that for 60 years as it is a fact that the media has a pretty liberal bias . Reagan was the only republican nominee since 1960 that the media covered positively since then and his presidency was the only republican presidency they covered positively (other than W for a couple years ).

[OSR stands with Israel]

OSR, I won't lie... you're lookin' good these days, man.

(Commentator doesn't consider the "leaked addresses" aspect, but Tulsi repeats most of OSR's talking points very closely.)

Tulsi's position on Russia is completely disgraceful

[It’s so Joever]

Red Avatar Hacks are become more and more horrible by the day.

Okay, dear.

Are you going to respond to my post pointing out in detail why Trump is a traitor who attempted a coup and why those who still support him now are also traitors? Or are you just gonna engage when you want to, and ignore when you can't defend your side?

If half the country is traitors than the word has 0 meaning what so ever . Yes Trump’s actions after the election were disgraceful and impeachable but first of all not every Trump voter supports that and second even among the people who did the fact is we don’t prosecute “thought crimes” for a reason . The people who were part of the riot were arrested and deserve to be arrested .

The fact is even then the action of throwing tens of millions of people behind bars just for supporting Trump is worse and more evil    than Trump succeeding in Stealing an election. So please reflect on your deplorable views here and how fascist they have become

So your argument is literally that if enough people are traitors, they aren’t traitors? I mean I guess technically you could make that argument from a traitor against country standpoint (in which case mass murdering every current government official is not traitorous against the country if enough people support it), but they certainly are still traitors against basic constitutional principles along with former American principles.

[It’s so Joever]

Red Avatar Hacks are become more and more horrible by the day.

Okay, dear.

Are you going to respond to my post pointing out in detail why Trump is a traitor who attempted a coup and why those who still support him now are also traitors? Or are you just gonna engage when you want to, and ignore when you can't defend your side?

If half the country is traitors than the word has 0 meaning what so ever . Yes Trump’s actions after the election were disgraceful and impeachable but first of all not every Trump voter supports that and second even among the people who did the fact is we don’t prosecute “thought crimes” for a reason . The people who were part of the riot were arrested and deserve to be arrested .

The fact is even then the action of throwing tens of millions of people behind bars just for supporting Trump is worse and more evil    than Trump succeeding in Stealing an election. So please reflect on your deplorable views here and how fascist they have become

So your argument is literally that if enough people are traitors, they aren’t traitors? I mean I guess technically you could make that argument from a traitor against country standpoint (in which case mass murdering every current government official is not traitorous against the country if enough people support it), but they certainly are still traitors against basic constitutional principles along with former American principles.

Well if over 2/5th of a country are traitors than the argument really should be that we arent a country anymore and a breakup is needed.

Yes but the point you should be getting from this is that size doesn’t make right.

Also what you described is still traitorous cause the people who commit mass murder like that are actually committing crimes and should obviously be prosecuted because of their actions.

Okay, so say 1% of the population started mass murdering every leader in office, say 30% of the population isn’t commuting Murder but vocally cheers for it, and say another 30% have the position that “it’s bad but we should be talking more about how corrupt a few of the leaders were, that’s more important than the mass murders today!” How many of these three groups would you consider traitors?”

[GeorgiaModerate]

How about taking the traitor discussion to its own thread?  It's derailing this one.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

How about taking the traitor discussion to its own thread?  It's derailing this one.

I was gonna ask if anybody remembered where we parked the Roe-mobile. 

[GeorgiaModerate]

How about taking the traitor discussion to its own thread?  It's derailing this one.

I was gonna ask if anybody remembered where we parked the Roe-mobile. 

At the Sears & Roebuck, of course.

[certified hummus supporter 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

How about taking the traitor discussion to its own thread?  It's derailing this one.

I was gonna ask if anybody remembered where we parked the Roe-mobile.  

We had a Roe-mobile? I thought we had a Roe-boat.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

This has truly surpassed the Virginia 2021 Gov thread

[Hermit For Peace]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Men can have babies today

Good for them, if that's what they want.

[Hermit For Peace]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Abortion is legalized murder. Why are you pro-murder?

Murder is based sometimes. Without it, we'd still have John Lennon.

The world isn’t a just place, sadly. Yoko is still at large, making eardrums bleed.

Lol!

[Hermit For Peace]

What I would honestly like to see with respect to abortion policy is this:

Assemble a distinguished panel of obstetricians, neuroscientists, and philosophers studying philosophy of mind and phenomology and task them with assembling a report with their consensus opinion on when human life/consciousness begins. 

We should agree in advance that whatever their decision is will be binding national abortion policy, with abortion always permitted before this point, and prohibited beyond this point with narrow excpetions.

You have to have something in there for the emotional people. You can't use logic on emotional people, and there are plenty of them in this abortion debate. They need to hear from a representative of God, somehow. Also, you need a psychologist on the panel to help people understand the dynamics of power and why men feel the need to dominate women.

Also, I would disagree that we must accept their opinions in advance. Nope. Let's reason over everything and make the best decision possible from all the information we've gathered.

But I'm dreaming. I live in a dream world and I admit it. This will never happen in my lifetime. Period.

[Thank you for being a friend...]

Should Government be involved in abortion?  This issue is never going to be "won", and the moral debate over it will last forever - and it's a particularly religious issue.  

You can't talk about the history of the abortion debate in the United States without talking about religion.

The issues of abortion, contraceptives, and a new issue- hormones for trans kids - are all linked - it's about whether people have the right to be imposing their religious beliefs on other people... and controlling what those people and those families decide is best for them.  It's about CONTROL.

I say no.  A person deserves complete autonomy over their own body, and if that right's not going to be respected, then we might as well forget about every other right because it doesn't matter anymore.  

You cannot say you live in a free country when you do not have rights over what is yours - and no one else's.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

How about taking the traitor discussion to its own thread?  It's derailing this one.

I was gonna ask if anybody remembered where we parked the Roe-mobile. 

At the Sears & Roebuck, of course.

How about taking the traitor discussion to its own thread?  It's derailing this one.

I was gonna ask if anybody remembered where we parked the Roe-mobile.  

We had a Roe-mobile? I thought we had a Roe-boat.

Roe up, GM and AFE.  This is serious.

Okay! Ending this now 😂

[fhtagn]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Good thing saying you can't kill your offspring you consented to help creating isn't the government telling you how to manage your body.

[fhtagn]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Abortion is legalized murder. Why are you pro-murder?

Who says it's murder? You?

You're taking a human being and ending its life prematurely. That's murder.

Who says it is a human being at that point? You? Science? The Church? The Government? Is the fetus viable outside of the womb? What are you "murdering", specifically?

Science, actually. Viability outside of the womb has nothing to do with whether or not the person in the womb is a human being.

[Hermit For Peace]

Should Government be involved in abortion?  This issue is never going to be "won", and the moral debate over it will last forever - and it's a particularly religious issue.  

You can't talk about the history of the abortion debate in the United States without talking about religion.

The issues of abortion, contraceptives, and a new issue- hormones for trans kids - are all linked - it's about whether people have the right to be imposing their religious beliefs on other people... and controlling what those people and those families decide is best for them.  It's about CONTROL.

I say no.  A person deserves complete autonomy over their own body, and if that right's not going to be respected, then we might as well forget about every other right because it doesn't matter anymore.  

You cannot say you live in a free country when you do not have rights over what is yours - and no one else's.

Well said. I agree with all you said here. Great post. I guess it all boils down to the fact that we are a Puritan nation. We came from Puritans and how are we going to possibly shake those kinds of roots? We are probably never going to be able to shake them until some enlightened era of time in the far distant future.

But that is not to say that we shouldn't keep fighting for equality and clarity in the here and now.

[Vespucci]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Good thing saying you can't kill your offspring you consented to help creating isn't the government telling you how to manage your body.

I mean, even if you consider abortion to be killing your offspring, abortion bans are still the government telling you how to manage your body. Criminal law is by definition the government telling you what you can and cannot do.

[fhtagn]

Goodbye Roe! This should have happened decades ago!

Why? Are you a female? Do you want the government telling you how to manage your body? Truly?

Or, if you are not a female, how come you think you have a right to tell women how to manage their bodies? Would you like the government to tell you how to manage yours? Truly?

Good thing saying you can't kill your offspring you consented to help creating isn't the government telling you how to manage your body.

I mean, even if you consider abortion to be killing your offspring, abortion bans are still the government telling you how to manage your body. Criminal law is by definition the government telling you what you can and cannot do.

You have the choice in managing your body by choosing whether or not to engage in acts that naturally lead to pregnancy.

[fhtagn]

Should Government be involved in abortion?  This issue is never going to be "won", and the moral debate over it will last forever - and it's a particularly religious issue.  

You can't talk about the history of the abortion debate in the United States without talking about religion.

The issues of abortion, contraceptives, and a new issue- hormones for trans kids - are all linked - it's about whether people have the right to be imposing their religious beliefs on other people... and controlling what those people and those families decide is best for them.  It's about CONTROL.

I say no.  A person deserves complete autonomy over their own body, and if that right's not going to be respected, then we might as well forget about every other right because it doesn't matter anymore.  

You cannot say you live in a free country when you do not have rights over what is yours - and no one else's.

Well said. I agree with all you said here. Great post. I guess it all boils down to the fact that we are a Puritan nation. We came from Puritans and how are we going to possibly shake those kinds of roots? We are probably never going to be able to shake them until some enlightened era of time in the far distant future.

But that is not to say that we shouldn't keep fighting for equality and clarity in the here and now.

Men and women would both not be allowed to get an abortion. That's equality.