Argentina 2023 election

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Even brief exposition to r/Argentina can cause severe brain damage, be careful.

Huh, what are you going to do, vote for Massa so that Máximo Kirchner can steal your hard earned bitcoin? Dhut up and eat your cornmeal, you commie

[Red Velvet]

Was looking at r/Argentina for fun and it looks like Milei's VP dominated the VP debate... are they of similarly little importance to the ones in the US?

Every community is a select bubble, just because it’s the country reddit makes no difference.

If you read Argentina and Brazil main reddits you would get the idea that Argentina is a way more conservative country than Brazil, with Argentina filled with only economic liberals and anti-Peronists and Brazil with only progressives and left-wing nationalists.

Reality is always greyer but on average, I would 100% say Brazil is in general more conservative than Argentina because of the religious aspect. Reading the countries reddits you wouldn’t get this impression at all though and would think it’s the opposite.

Every online community tends to be a bubble representative more of the people who moderate it, never forget about that. There isn’t one single truth.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

In an interview with Jaime Bayly (the poor man's Vargas Llosa) , Milei cast doubt on the transparency of the elections and said Massa cheated and will do it again. I saw people saying that stuff online (whitout any proof, of course) , and to hear the man himself encourage that is unsurprising but still very worrying, given what that kind of rethoric caused in the US and Brazil.

Also he said he wouldn't meet with the "communist and corrupt" Lula Da Silva. I don't know what kind of foreign policy he has in mind, but to piss off our two largest trading partners Brazil and China because of some cold war mentality, is just plain braindead.

"Poor man's Vargas Llosa" made me lol. Bayly is fun but he's off the rails with Argentina.

[Peeperkorn]

Even brief exposition to r/Argentina can cause severe brain damage, be careful.

Huh, what are you going to do, vote for Massa so that Máximo Kirchner can steal your hard earned bitcoin? Dhut up and eat your cornmeal, you commie

I just realized that polenta is cornmeal.

[Peeperkorn]

In an interview with Jaime Bayly (the poor man's Vargas Llosa) , Milei cast doubt on the transparency of the elections and said Massa cheated and will do it again. I saw people saying that stuff online (whitout any proof, of course) , and to hear the man himself encourage that is unsurprising but still very worrying, given what that kind of rethoric caused in the US and Brazil.

Also he said he wouldn't meet with the "communist and corrupt" Lula Da Silva. I don't know what kind of foreign policy he has in mind, but to piss off our two largest trading partners Brazil and China because of some cold war mentality, is just plain braindead.

"Poor man's Vargas Llosa" made me lol. Bayly is fun but he's off the rails with Argentina.

Bayly has his moments but he's not as brilliant as he thinks he is. Living in Miami for too long is detrimental for any kind of intellectual development.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Even brief exposition to r/Argentina can cause severe brain damage, be careful.

Huh, what are you going to do, vote for Massa so that Máximo Kirchner can steal your hard earned bitcoin? Dhut up and eat your cornmeal, you commie

This is definitely a sentence of all time.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

If you read Argentina and Brazil main reddits you would get the idea that Argentina is a way more conservative country than Brazil, with Argentina filled with only economic liberals and anti-Peronists and Brazil with only progressives and left-wing nationalists.

Reality is always greyer but on average, I would 100% say Brazil is in general more conservative than Argentina because of the religious aspect. Reading the countries reddits you wouldn’t get this impression at all though and would think it’s the opposite.

But taking into account Reddit’s age skew, is it really unfair to say that young Argentinias are far more neoliberal and anti-Peronist than the Lulismo of the Brazilian youth? Especially now given how Millei’s voters skew extremely young.

[Red Velvet]

If you read Argentina and Brazil main reddits you would get the idea that Argentina is a way more conservative country than Brazil, with Argentina filled with only economic liberals and anti-Peronists and Brazil with only progressives and left-wing nationalists.

Reality is always greyer but on average, I would 100% say Brazil is in general more conservative than Argentina because of the religious aspect. Reading the countries reddits you wouldn’t get this impression at all though and would think it’s the opposite.

But taking into account Reddit’s age skew, is it really unfair to say that young Argentinias are far more neoliberal and anti-Peronist than the Lulismo of the Brazilian youth? Especially now given how Millei’s voters skew extremely young.

There could be an age element to these bubbles yeah, but I wouldn’t say that youth in Argentina is necessarily more neoliberal.

What happens is that youth tends to be more open towards anti-establishment new ideas when situation is bad and this far-right populist brand is still very new in Argentina indeed, while Brazil has already “survived” through it.

Btw, Milei sucking up Bolsonaro’s dick to provoke Lula is analogue to Bolsonaro doing the same thing towards Trump and getting backlash from Biden lol

Brazil’s government sees Milei’s provocations as a trap to stimulate an emotional response from Brazil so that Milei can use this domestically as evidence of Brazil intervening on Argentinian affairs (like say an open public support for Massa that has been kept in private so far) and drive up nationalism in his favor inside Argentina.

It’s just weird that he has picked Lula for this purpose but then again, far-right crazies are very much of tribal beings and not quite smart. It’s not shocking if Milei just happens to be extremely loyal towards Jair Bolsonaro because he sees himself as part of the same “global movement” or whatever.

[oldtimer]

Was looking at r/Argentina for fun and it looks like Milei's VP dominated the VP debate... are they of similarly little importance to the ones in the US?

Every community is a select bubble, just because it’s the country reddit makes no difference.

If you read Argentina and Brazil main reddits you would get the idea that Argentina is a way more conservative country than Brazil, with Argentina filled with only economic liberals and anti-Peronists and Brazil with only progressives and left-wing nationalists.

Reality is always greyer but on average, I would 100% say Brazil is in general more conservative than Argentina because of the religious aspect. Reading the countries reddits you wouldn’t get this impression at all though and would think it’s the opposite.

Every online community tends to be a bubble representative more of the people who moderate it, never forget about that. There isn’t one single truth.

If we go by general stereotype, all of South America is a form of Populism (left and right) vs White Oligarchs:

 "Zoro with smartphones"

[kaoras]

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

[Red Velvet]

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

[buritobr]

La Nacion interviewed some young female voters at the Taylor Swift concert about their vote. 3 Taylor Swift fans will vote for Massa, 1 for Milei, and the majority didn't decide yet or decided for blank vote
https://twitter.com/LANACION/status/1722718689580003659

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

67% of Brazilians want to see Putin tried for war crimes. Less than 30% have a negative view of NATO.

POLL LINK

[Bilardista]

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

Didn't all the right wingers left r/brasil and made their own subreddits? At least thats what happened with r/argentina, everyone left of center left that sub years ago, what you see now is an echo chamber of mostly male, white, middle or upper class, hateful gorilas. I used to browse it for the non politcal memes, but got tired of all the classism and racism that would contaminate every discussion in that cesspool.

[wnwnwn]

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

Didn't all the right wingers left r/brasil and made their own subreddits? At least thats what happened with r/argentina, everyone left of center left that sub years ago, what you see now is an echo chamber of mostly male, white, middle or upper class, hateful gorilas. I used to browse it for the non politcal memes, but got tired of all the classism and racism that would contaminate every discussion in that cesspool.

Reactionarism is not something done only by whites.
In Peru, there are a lot of poor / working class brown right wingers only (some support Milei, some support Laje). I'm pretty sure some of those right wing argentinian trolls are brown too. Now, what I have seen more is people being agaisnt welfare and shoplifters. I know those post has some classist and racist connotaciones, but it's more than that.
Argentinians are desperate, every social class is affected by inflation.
Now, Milei (an ally of Laje), won't solve social problems, but peronists have also failed at it. Even the current president is famous for a racist "gaffe".

[Bilardista]

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

Didn't all the right wingers left r/brasil and made their own subreddits? At least thats what happened with r/argentina, everyone left of center left that sub years ago, what you see now is an echo chamber of mostly male, white, middle or upper class, hateful gorilas. I used to browse it for the non politcal memes, but got tired of all the classism and racism that would contaminate every discussion in that cesspool.

Reactionarism is not something done only by whites.
In Peru, there are a lot of poor / working class brown right wingers only (some support Milei, some support Laje). I'm pretty sure some of those right wing argentinian trolls are brown too. Now, what I have seen more is people being agaisnt welfare and shoplifters. I know those post has some classist and racist connotaciones, but it's more than that.
Argentinians are desperate, every social class is affected by inflation.
Now, Milei (an ally of Laje), won't solve social problems, but peronists have also failed at it. Even the current president is famous for a racist "gaffe".

I was talking only about that specific subreddit, it's users are not representative of our society or  argentine social media as a whole (which in general leans pretty right but is not as extreme or bigoted as reddit)

Also they're not trolls, they genuinely hate poor people.

[wnwnwn]

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

Didn't all the right wingers left r/brasil and made their own subreddits? At least thats what happened with r/argentina, everyone left of center left that sub years ago, what you see now is an echo chamber of mostly male, white, middle or upper class, hateful gorilas. I used to browse it for the non politcal memes, but got tired of all the classism and racism that would contaminate every discussion in that cesspool.

Reactionarism is not something done only by whites.
In Peru, there are a lot of poor / working class brown right wingers only (some support Milei, some support Laje). I'm pretty sure some of those right wing argentinian trolls are brown too. Now, what I have seen more is people being agaisnt welfare and shoplifters. I know those post has some classist and racist connotaciones, but it's more than that.
Argentinians are desperate, every social class is affected by inflation.
Now, Milei (an ally of Laje), won't solve social problems, but peronists have also failed at it. Even the current president is famous for a racist "gaffe".

I was talking only about that specific subreddit, it's users are not representative of our society or  argentine social media as a whole (which in general leans pretty right but is not as extreme or bigoted as reddit)

That's obvious. Everybody here knows that "the dark sides of internet" doesn't representa average people.
What I was saying is that the world is more complex than stereotypical american progressive social science student analysis, even if that type of thinking have some true.

[Red Velvet]

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

Didn't all the right wingers left r/brasil and made their own subreddits? At least thats what happened with r/argentina, everyone left of center left that sub years ago, what you see now is an echo chamber of mostly male, white, middle or upper class, hateful gorilas. I used to browse it for the non politcal memes, but got tired of all the classism and racism that would contaminate every discussion in that cesspool.

Yeah, they’ve all gone to r/brasilivre cuz apparently the moderation in the main forum was too “left-wing” for them even it’s really only against the more inappropriate stuff they would say sometimes instead of letting the place be the wild west like they wanted lol

The main forum ideology these days runs from the Liberal Center all the way to the more “Radical” Left. So the most heated discussion you can find there is about stuff where’s big disagreement and fight exists between these camps, like Ukraine for instance (these topics used to get LOTS of responses). Otherwise, domestically everyone there is against Bolsonaro though, some were going to the Argentinian sub to try to understand why they were voting for Milei and to warn them of the risks of an anti-democratic candidate. And Lula can be more often criticized for not being lefty enough than for not being conservative enough.

That’s why I said I think moderation defines how these bubbles are shaped. Probably the Argentinian reddit has a moderation team with a more “free” approach that’s maybe even sympathetic towards the harsher language these far-right types like to use, which opened space for them to take over and dominate presence there. Moderation seems to be less strict towards that specific kind of poster while stuff like racism is considered unacceptable by the mods in the brazil sub.

[Peeperkorn]

If we go by general stereotype, all of South America is a form of Populism (left and right) vs White Oligarchs:

That may be the case in countries where wealth and power are concentrated in the hands of a white elite originated in colonial times (Mexico and Peru being the most notorious cases, where the native/mestizo majority usually embrace a mix of left economic populism and social conservativism (a set of values derived from their pre-Columbian native social structures)).

But other Latin American countries have completely different racial/social dynamics.

Colombia and Brazil are true melting pots where race isn't that relevant (well, the Brazilian North East could be the exception). And in Uruguay and central Argentina most of the poor can look very "white" (a friend of mine that was raised in Mexico always joke that Uruguayan slums look like Bulgaria or Moldova because of that).


One of my school best friends has been living in Chile for the last 10 years, and he says that what he most misses about Uruguay is that wealth and race are not correlated as in Chile. He's a "numbers" guy (engineer) so I don't know if this is actually true or just his perception.

So, it's really difficult to make this kind of generalization in Latin America. Every country is different and often every region within a country is different too.

[Red Velvet]

I was in Santos recently, a city in litoranean São Paulo State and one homeless guy was Blonde with Blue Eyes lol

Still mostly “uncommon” though, at least compared to my surroundings in Rio. Usually the large majority of homeless people that I see tend to be Black or Pardo yeah. However, it does seem to me that the Southern you go in Brazil, the number of Poor Whites tends to go up very visibly, probably because the number of Whites in general goes up too. Also the wealth inequality is somewhat less than in the Poorer North/Northeast, which naturally spills into racial gaps too.

In Uruguay and maybe Argentina, I do imagine it’s way more common.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

From the extremely fair and democratic province of Jujuy: Radical turned Massa supporter Gerardo Morales sent a dozen cops to intimidate some ladies making pastries at the local LLA branch.

https://twitter.com/therealbuni/status/1707143902518497522

Really they should be thankful because if they lived in Santiago del Estero they'd have their water cut off and they'd be fired from their jobs for even suggesting the possibility of not voting for the government, let alone volunteering for dangerous authoritarian Javier Milei. Really, the fact that such desperate measures have to be taken to protect Argentine democracy are yet more evidence of why Milei cannot be allowed to win.

The thing with reddit in Latin American countries isn't that it skews young, it's young people that are fluent in English AND are very exposed to US culture which is a very narrow demographic within young people.

As a young Chilean, I would say that 2/3 of my friends have no idea what reddit is or have never used it.

And yet, Brazil and Argentina reddits couldn’t be more different from each other. So the education and cultural level explanation still doesn’t fully work.

Brazil reddit is half center-left “woke” progressives and half “old-school” leftists who are nationalists and say basically the same stuff I do around here. I am just reading there right now and there are people criticizing Lula for not being harsher against Israel, comparing him to US democrats level of weakness lmaaaao. Some few users are actual communists, not just left-wing.

Argentina reddit is the complete opposite and it does feel like I’m in a Bolsonarist bubble from 2018 when I enter there. From 2018 because I can notice that what motivates MANY of these people isn’t agreeing with what Milei says, but an extreme and irrational level of hate for the Peronists or anyone even close to that.

The nature of reddit is that a small majority for one side can completely take over a comment section and blam any contrary opinions with downvotes. It's usually representative of a pretty particular crowd.

/r/argentina is less of a bastion of Milei supporters than of liberal Millennials from Buenos Aires. Before the PASO they tended to be more pro-Bullrich or especially pro-Espert. There's always been plenty of grumbling about how he's pro-life or too extreme over there, they just hate Peronism even more. The real hardcore Mileistas are on TikTok.

It's kind of funny that Milei and Bullrich are pretty similar in terms of policies but their supporters are demographically almost exactly the opposite. They both held rallies in Salta but Bullrich's crowd and Milei's crowd almost look like they're from different countries entirely. Bullrich supporters aren't exactly friendly to "Jujuyes"

https://twitter.com/Efra_vivers/status/1712273468899672220

[Peeperkorn]

The debate will start in one hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e8Iw3Frf1A

[Aurelius2]

Take a drink each time Massa says "convivencia democratica".

My Spanish is only good enough to understand about half of what they're saying (a bit less for Milei, whose accent is a bit harder for me to follow). Still been kind of interesting to listen though. A minute ago they were shouting at each other about Macri. Been surprised how calm it's been overall though.

[Aurelius2]

Closing statements just happened. Disclaimer: my Spanish is terrible - I'd probably be like an A2 or low B1 if I tested. Take this all with a huge grain of salt until we hear from one of the Argies or other actual Spanish speakers.

I didn't catch Massa's entire statement, but he talked a lot about a "crack in society" (there's probably a better translation of "grieta"?) between the north of Argentina and the richer parts. Said there is a choice between a path of violence and a forward-looking vision and he offers the latter. Said the government needs to work for the whole people and uplift everyone.

Milei called it the most important election in 100 years, said Argentina has an opportunity to reject the path of poverty and indigence it's been on for far too long, and I think said something about choosing between the same old populism and a stronger economy for a better future. Said Argentina can become a model of freedom and prosperity but first the people need to vote to free it.

[wnwnwn]

Massa trounced Milei in the debates.