Argentina 2023 election

[Red Velvet]

Milei sounds like a truly despicable person, and the worst kind of person to run a country.  The way he talks about anyone and anything that is on the left or the center left (I was watching a video where he was saying that right wingers are better looking than left wingers for example) makes me think he could try to become a dictator if he's in danger of losing an election.  I hope Argentina doesn't vote for this clown.

Everyone knows he’s awful but they have no option to pick from. It’s way more dramatic of a situation than anything I’ve ever seen here.

Like, I am quite sure the Argentinian economy is bound to flop no matter who gets elected - which is why I favor Massa either way, their problems are very structural more than political - but that’s not a very inspiring message. People need something to believe in when situation is awful, so they naturally go to whatever outsider is presenting itself as a “savior”.

Granted, I think it’s irresponsible to put a clown with shallow solutions in the exact time you need someone bold but who also happens to responsible instead of promising to destroy everything to build their own thing. But it’s an emotional pick, not rational. And they also lack alternatives that are convincing enough.

I do think Argentina is heading towards hyperinflation circa 2026 or so, the situation will only keep getting worse during Milei’s term, which could or could not add force to the narrative of dropping the Peso for a US currency. The good thing about being an outsider who promises solutions based on destruction of the country is that you can work to make things worse and use that as a validation to why their “change” is necessary. People in times of economic desperation are willing to accept everything, even if the risk of making situation worse exists.

So it will be an interesting dynamic to follow. To me Argentina already looked like a bomb set to explode and it’s like they’re only adding more and more explosives. Everyone knows what is bound to happen when inflation cannot be controlled and it manages to surpass 100%, it was something South American countries all saw in the 80s or early 90s.

In that sense, if I were a Peronist I wouldn’t want to stay in power once the thing explodes at all. It’s kinda inevitable. And considering that in practice I don’t see that much difference between Milei and Bullrich, the former only being crazier and dumber, maybe it’s actually better if Milei takes over now.

It’s a question mark how his government will be though. With the situation getting worse and population pressing for solutions, what is more likely to happen? For JxC to let the thing naturally explode so that Milei can take the heat by himself and political order can return to a place where JxC is the main opposition to Peronism? Or will JxC merge with Milei and align with his crazy agenda, taking the risk that if it backfires (as it’s likely to do) it will only refect negatively on their own political clout and strengthen Peronism naturally?

It’s a very unclear situation that we will only discover more about in the next years. As much Milei is often compared to Bolsonaro because of current global dynamics and trends, the context inevitably reminds me more of Brazil 1989 and I actually somewhat think of Collor’s situation when looking at Milei. Milei is only more unhinged and extreme - the new normal for these days.

Both Collor plans weren’t able to contain inflation, which kept growing until the Plano Real was established by Collor’s sucessors after he was impeached: Itamar Franco and FHC.

Milei is different in how he is dumber and doesn’t even know how or want to contain Argentinian inflation, so he isn’t even proposing structural plans that Argentina needs, only easy solutions like: “End the Peso and adopt the Dollar”, which is naturally something that works for the matter of inflation only but creates tons of other economic limitations of its own, besides not having an easy execution.

I strongly doubt how much an outsider without much partisan backing of his own can do. Generally, 1st year is key to see how much grip on power he’ll actually have, but Argentina is in a different situation where the trend is for situation worsening every year and pressure to rise a lot the longer you stay in power. So he also has limited time to show results with the easy solutions he’s presenting. It will not be an easy government at all imo.

[Red Velvet]

There’s been a big storm after Milei’s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that “the will of the islanders should be respected”. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, Página/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put “self-determination” in scare quotes and talked about “a population of occupiers”. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that “Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.”

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

Most countries either support the Argentinian claim on the Malvinas (blue) or are Neutral about it (grey).

Countries in red support the UK claim.

Considering the amount of global support/sympathy they have on the matter, for a local candidate to be more neutral about it shows how much they really care about his country interests.

I bet he’s only not in full favor of UK control (Milei is saying the islands are rightfully Argentinian, but defending a pro-UK compromise) because it would be a complete shot on the foot amongst the Argentinian electorate.

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

There’s been a big storm after Milei’s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that “the will of the islanders should be respected”. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, Página/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put “self-determination” in scare quotes and talked about “a population of occupiers”. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that “Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.”

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

If he wasn’t so wacky otherwise, I’d support him for that alone.

Edit: Truly a broken clock moment for Milei.

[justfollowingtheelections]

I do think Argentina is heading towards hyperinflation circa 2026 or so, the situation will only keep getting worse during Milei’s term, which could or could not add force to the narrative of dropping the Peso for a US currency.

Didn't they do that in the 90s and their economy collapsed?

I get what you're saying about how it might be better if he's the one in power when the economy implodes so that he and his politics are completely delegitimized, I'm just worried that he could become a dictator based on his complete inability/unwillingness to compromise with anyone who disagrees with him.  He seems for more dangerous than Bolsonaro or Trump IMO.

I hope that idiotic comment about the Malvinas kills his campaign.

[CumbrianLefty]

His comments on the Falklands may be "idiotic" in political terms, given how brainwashed and beyond reason 95% of his countrymen are on this topic - but in reality they are almost disconcertingly sane.

(like most Brits, I don't care about them massively - but the idea that the wishes of the locals should be properly taken into account when determining their future, just seems like basic common sense)

[Senator Incitatus]

Las Malvinas son Estadounidenses

[Velasco]

There’s been a big storm after Milei’s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that “the will of the islanders should be respected”. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, Página/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put “self-determination” in scare quotes and talked about “a population of occupiers”. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that “Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.”

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

If he wasn’t so wacky otherwise, I’d support him for that alone.

Edit: Truly a broken clock moment for Milei.

I don't think the problem with Milei is related to his wacky persona. Nobody should have issues with eccentric individuals, as long as they are competent perpforming their duties.  The real problem with Milei is that his proposals are lacking a realistic approach, for they are founded upon magical thinking, infused knowledge and the ultimate anarcho-capitalist dogma: market will provide. Milei will likely add more devastation to an economy already ruined by the incompetence of incumbent and former administrations

As for Malvinas Argentinas. It's clear the defunct military Junta made a terrible decision and paid a high price for it. While I concur the obsession of some Argentinians seems foolish and jingoistic, never forget that the Falklands are a remainder of 19th Century British Colonialism. On the other hand, the 3000 islanders are descendants of British settlers. It's clear the islanders have the right to be heard, but the conflict on the sovereignty of the islands should be negotiated between Argentina and the UK by diplomatic means

[Progressive Pessimist]

Milei reminds me of Blake Masters if he were somehow able to become a national candidate. I feel so sorry for Argentina that he will probably be its next leader.

[Aurelius2]

I do think Argentina is heading towards hyperinflation circa 2026 or so, the situation will only keep getting worse during Milei’s term, which could or could not add force to the narrative of dropping the Peso for a US currency.

Didn't they do that in the 90s and their economy collapsed?

I get what you're saying about how it might be better if he's the one in power when the economy implodes so that he and his politics are completely delegitimized, I'm just worried that he could become a dictator based on his complete inability/unwillingness to compromise with anyone who disagrees with him.  He seems for more dangerous than Bolsonaro or Trump IMO.

I hope that idiotic comment about the Malvinas kills his campaign.

"Idiotic" in what way?

[BigSerg]

There’s been a big storm after Milei’s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that “the will of the islanders should be respected”. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, Página/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put “self-determination” in scare quotes and talked about “a population of occupiers”. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that “Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.”

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

This is a pathetic and ignorant thing to say. According to the UN, the Malvinas are a non-self-governing territory, where it is specified that the British settlers are not a people with the right to self-determination, study resolution 2065, please.

[Aurelius2]

There’s been a big storm after Milei’s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that “the will of the islanders should be respected”. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, Página/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put “self-determination” in scare quotes and talked about “a population of occupiers”. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that “Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.”

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

This is a pathetic and ignorant thing to say. According to the UN, the Malvinas are a non-self-governing territory, where it is specified that the British settlers are not a people with the right to self-determination, study resolution 2065, please.

I don't give a damn what the pansies at the UN say.

[Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!]

The Milei-Tucker interview just passed the Trump-Tucker debate night interview in views and is still going (265M vs 293M and counting)

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1702442099814342725

[CumbrianLefty]

This is a pathetic and ignorant thing to say. According to the UN, the Malvinas are a non-self-governing territory, where it is specified that the British settlers are not a people with the right to self-determination, study resolution 2065, please.

Well....it is certainly interesting to see you treating UN resolutions as holy writ, put it that way

[Conservatopia]

There�s been a big storm after Milei�s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that �the will of the islanders should be respected�. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, P�gina/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put �self-determination� in scare quotes and talked about �a population of occupiers�. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that �Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.�

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

This is a pathetic and ignorant thing to say. According to the UN, the Malvinas are a non-self-governing territory, where it is specified that the British settlers are not a people with the right to self-determination, study resolution 2065, please.

Idiot.

For starters who gives a hoot what the UN thinks.

Secondly the islanders have been there for long enough that they are indigenous.
The indigenous population wants to stay under British rule and that's the end of the argument.
Argies and their clown friends like yourself can get their soggy panties in a twist all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

Also you got triggered when I called for removing Russians from Russian sovereignty? Now here you are whining that the Falklanders shouldn't get a say in their future.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

There�s been a big storm after Milei�s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that �the will of the islanders should be respected�. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, P�gina/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put �self-determination� in scare quotes and talked about �a population of occupiers�. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that �Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.�

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

This is a pathetic and ignorant thing to say. According to the UN, the Malvinas are a non-self-governing territory, where it is specified that the British settlers are not a people with the right to self-determination, study resolution 2065, please.

Idiot.

For starters who gives a hoot what the UN thinks.

Secondly the islanders have been there for long enough that they are indigenous.
The indigenous population wants to stay under British rule and that's the end of the argument.
Argies and their clown friends like yourself can get their soggy panties in a twist all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

Also weren't you the incontinent pansy who got triggered when I called for removing Russians from Russian sovereignty? Now here you are whining that the Falklanders shouldn't get a say in their future.

Not having all Russians everywhere under a Russian ethnostate: bad, horrible, western imperialism
Demanding Britain give up a 100% British pair of islands because they're geographically proximate to another country: good, anti-imperialist, necessary

[Pouring Rain and Blairing Music]

There’s been a big storm after Milei’s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that “the will of the islanders should be respected”. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, Página/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put “self-determination” in scare quotes and talked about “a population of occupiers”. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that “Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.”

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

If he wasn’t so wacky otherwise, I’d support him for that alone.

Edit: Truly a broken clock moment for Milei.

I don't think the problem with Milei is not related to his wacky persona. Nobody should have issues with eccentric individuals, as long as they are competent perpforming their duties.  The real problem with Milei is that his proposals are lacking a realistic approach, for they are founded upon magical thinking, infused knowledge and the ultimate anarcho-capitalist dogma: market will provide. Milei will likely add more devastation to an economy already ruined by the incompetence of incumbent and former administrations

As for Malvinas Argentinas. It's clear the defunct military Junta made a terrible decision and paid a high price for it. While I concur the obsession of some Argentinians seems foolish and jingoistic, never forget that the Falklands are a remainder of 19th Century British Colonialism. On the other hand, the 3000 islanders are descendants of British settlers. It's clear the islanders have the right to be heard, but the conflict on the sovereignty of the islands should be negotiated between Argentina and the UK by diplomatic means

On the first part, I absolutely agree. When I said Milei was wacky, I meant more in terms of policy, though he’s obviously somewhat wacky on a personal level.

With regards to the Falklands, I just don’t find the argument that Argentina has a legitimate claim to be compelling in the face of the Falkland Islanders having lived there for over 150 years and desiring the right to stay as a colony if they do please. Most of the world is a remainder of 19th century (and earlier) colonialism from one country or another. Argentina itself is itself both a remainder of earlier colonization by the Spanish as well as southward expansion as an independent nation in the 19th century.

It would be very much different if Britain had taken over the Falklands in living memory (or even in living memory of 1982).

[Lumine]

I mean, they can keep whining - and they will at every diplomatic level - but the Falklands are British. It is regrettable that the continent - my country included - has to indulge Argentina on the matter in the name of supposed solidarity (particularly when there is no reciprocity whatsoever).

Certainly bad politics for Milei given the absurd amount of obsessive jingoism the Argentinians display about the islands, but still.

[Edu]

[Bilardista]

Yeah yeah, we get it, we are dumb and pathetic and evil and all that, can you guys stop circlejerking about it and return the thread to it's original subject?

[Velasco]

With regards to the Falklands, I just don’t find the argument that Argentina has a legitimate claim to be compelling in the face of the Falkland Islanders having lived there for over 150 years and desiring the right to stay as a colony if they do please. Most of the world is a remainder of 19th century (and earlier) colonialism from one country or another. Argentina itself is itself both a remainder of earlier colonization by the Spanish as well as southward expansion as an independent nation in the 19th century.

It would be very much different if Britain had taken over the Falklands in living memory (or even in living memory of 1982).

Argentina has a legitimate claim over the sovereignty of the Malvinas, even though the islands are British since 1833 and the islanders have been there for 150 years. There are no remainders left of the Spanish Empire saving the Canary Islands (their conquest in the XV century predated the colonization of the Americas). Argentina is a sovereign nation that inherited the islands from Spain, according to the official version in the Argentinian government website

 https://www.argentina.gob.ar/noticias/dia-de-la-afirmacion-de-los-derechos-argentinos-sobre-las-islas-malvinas-georgias-del-sur-0#:~:text=Las%20Malvinas%20son%20argentinas%20por,y%20amistad%20con%20nuestro%20pa%C3%ADs%E2%80%93.

 
The Malvinas are Argentine for reasons of International Law. Since the Treaty of Tordesillas and by successive treaties they belonged to Spain until 1811 and, consequently, Argentina inherited, occupied and exercised its sovereignty until 1833, when they were usurped by Great Britain – in a time of peace and friendship with our country. The light blue and white flag was raised on Falkland Islands soil on November 6, 1820 by Marine Colonel David Jewett (Google translation)

See, I know this forum is anglo and I don't even think this problem is serious compared to others faced by Argentina nowadays. I have criticized myself certain jingoism on the Argentinian side, but certainly such feelings are not absent in Brit folks and friends. I would ask everyone commenting here to respect the other side. Argentinians have their reasons and also their feelings and their dignity

Let's continue discussing Argentinian elections,  please

[Velasco]

Very interesring, quoting Elon Musk

It's Happenning!!! (Insert Ron Paul GIF)

https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1702079713622299100?t=Z9fdZszP1eyBtfV-L...

[Aurelius2]

Friendly reminder that this thread is about Argentina.

[Red Velvet]

There�s been a big storm after Milei�s proposed Foreign Minister said about Falklands that �the will of the islanders should be respected�. Much of Argentine media (especially left-wing, P�gina/12 and such) reacted by writing articles full of fire-breathing ethnic nationalism seemingly straight out of 1990s Balkans that put �self-determination� in scare quotes and talked about �a population of occupiers�. The Secretary of Falklands (an actual government position!) said that �Milei wants to impose the desires of 3,000 islanders on 46 million Argentinians.�

Really, this confirms that the Argentinian obsession with Falklands is just a hilariously pathetic attempt to imitate 19th century European imperialism.

This is a pathetic and ignorant thing to say. According to the UN, the Malvinas are a non-self-governing territory, where it is specified that the British settlers are not a people with the right to self-determination, study resolution 2065, please.

Idiot.

For starters who gives a hoot what the UN thinks.

Secondly the islanders have been there for long enough that they are indigenous.
The indigenous population wants to stay under British rule and that's the end of the argument.
Argies and their clown friends like yourself can get their soggy panties in a twist all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

Also weren't you the incontinent pansy who got triggered when I called for removing Russians from Russian sovereignty? Now here you are whining that the Falklanders shouldn't get a say in their future.

I will take the logic of this bolded line to myself whenever discussing with a Portuguese online telling him to return our stolen gold and he says “You’re Portuguese colonizer descendant bitch” looool

But I don’t believe in the logic anyways, so Malvinas are still Argentinian btw

[Libertas Vel Mors]

I will say, for a more Argentina/LatAm related topic, that I suspect a lot of the strange Falklandsism found in Argentina/various related colonial "upsets" that you will sometimes hear in third world politics (ie Red Velvet complaining about how Portugal "stole" Brazil's gold) would go away in a flash if these countries weren't poor. I have little evidence for this save the vaguely comparable (but rich) examples of former British colonies in North America and Oceania not expressing these sentiments despite the far longer lasting and to this day more interconnected relationships there, as well as more broadly the lack of these complaints from developed Middle Eastern/East Asian countries and the observation that the Falklands were not an issue of similar prominence when Argentina was a (by the standards of the time) wealthy country.

[Red Velvet]

I will say, for a more Argentina/LatAm related topic, that I suspect a lot of the strange Falklandsism found in Argentina/various related colonial "upsets" that you will sometimes hear in third world politics (ie Red Velvet complaining about how Portugal "stole" Brazil's gold) would go away in a flash if these countries weren't poor. I have little evidence for this save the vaguely comparable (but rich) examples of former British colonies in North America and Oceania not expressing these sentiments despite the far longer lasting and to this day more interconnected relationships there, as well as more broadly the lack of these complaints from developed Middle Eastern/East Asian countries and the observation that the Falklands were not an issue of similar prominence when Argentina was a (by the standards of the time) wealthy country.

I’m not complaining about anything, it’s just a common meme (based on historical facts) we say to provoke them online lmaoooo

And it works, this youtube gringo couple visited Paraty city here for exemple - which was used as a port town where the gold got out - and was only telling the story and a bunch of Portuguese people appeared in the comments offended at the gringos for implying they were thieves. When it’s just, well, history. But the gringos had to pin a comment to “calm down” the Portuguese attacking them lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAtVB9Y5YQE&t=246s&pp=ygUNUGFyYXR5IHRyYXZlbA%3D%3D

But back to the argument point, if people who live for too long in a place are rightfully considered Indigenous, then I would be “Indigenous Brazilian”, which makes absolutely no sense since there are actual Indigenous people sharing the land with me lol

I was simply making lightly fun of the comment in order to expose how it made no sense because if a Portuguese responded to the gold meme by saying I’m a colonizer descendant, they would be 100% right. But IF I were Indigenous like your logic suggested, then I would be able to use victim card to claim to be entitled to any stolen gold.

And because of that I think it’s weird to call anyone living in Malvinas “Indigenous”, regardless if they speak English or Spanish. They would be colonizer descendants regardless of the language spoken or their nationality lol

It all just screams very nationalist British talk to try to morally justify somehow having control of South American territories tons of miles away from them. But since France still didn’t give up French Guyana - a much bigger deal than Malvinas IMO - then I guess it’s even less motivation for them to abandon it.

Milei’s proposals of a Hong Kong type of deal with the UK are stupid anyway lol. That he even thinks that this is a possibility shows how naive and pathetically subservient the Latin American right always is when seeing themselves as part of the “Western” club. It’s always through their perspective only because actual westerners don’t see them as equal partners at all.

But Milei types are always SURE they can cancel relations with major partners (which are Brazil and China in Argentina’s case) and that if they suck western balls enough they will get good treatment, only to be later humiliated. It’s constantly ridiculous, but still impressive how these people find new ways of degrading themselves.