Australia 2022 Election

[GoTfan]

You’re both taking the debate slightly too seriously. It was broadcast on Sky getting their usual anemic ratings. Leader’s debates have never mattered in past elections and there’s no sign of that changing.

That comment about being blessed not to have disabled children is certainly making the rounds, though.

It’s just like any speech a politician gives. If you stay on script nobody cares but if you make a bad gaffe it’ll make the rounds of all the papers. Personally (as someone on the NDIS for Autism) I can see the point he thought he was making, and many would agree with it, but the way he worded it couched in his evangelical holier-than-thou was truly vile.

And then of course we have Hollie Hughes who grabbed the shovel with both hands and started digging even more.

[Ebowed]

Personally (as someone on the NDIS for Autism) I can see the point he thought he was making, and many would agree with it, but the way he worded it couched in his evangelical holier-than-thou was truly vile.

The average person would not see it as a 'holier-than-thou' comment largely because it was clearly not intended as one.  In fact, Morrison and his wife had a lot of difficulty having children and needed to use IVF along with the increased risks that this entails.  The Labor party would be wise not to overplay their hand because it just comes across as insincere finger-wagging.

It's astounding, really.  The attempt to continue to make an issue out of Morrison's religion has got to be some of the stupidest political strategy out there.  Labor has clearly learned nothing from 2019- they only listen to their own circle.

[morgieb]

And perhaps more importantly lockdowns we’re a state government decision with very little input from the Feds. As such if people were angry at lockdowns we would’ve seen it in recent state elections. Which we haven’t.

TBF the two states that actually experienced proper lockdowns haven’t had state elections yet.

[GoTfan]

Personally (as someone on the NDIS for Autism) I can see the point he thought he was making, and many would agree with it, but the way he worded it couched in his evangelical holier-than-thou was truly vile.

The average person would not see it as a 'holier-than-thou' comment largely because it was clearly not intended as one.  In fact, Morrison and his wife had a lot of difficulty having children and needed to use IVF along with the increased risks that this entails.  The Labor party would be wise not to overplay their hand because it just comes across as insincere finger-wagging.

It's astounding, really.  The attempt to continue to make an issue out of Morrison's religion has got to be some of the stupidest political strategy out there.  Labor has clearly learned nothing from 2019- they only listen to their own circle.

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

[Ebowed]

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

Another example of people believing their own propaganda.  Hillsong isn't his church.

[GoTfan]

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

Another example of people believing their own propaganda.  Hillsong isn't his church.

So it's fake news that he's been to Hillsong services multiple times?

[Ebowed]

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

Another example of people believing their own propaganda.  Hillsong isn't his church.

So it's fake news that he's been to Hillsong services multiple times?

Consider employing your critical thinking skills.

Now, we know that politicians attend religious services on a regular basis.  This does not mean that they are members of that congregation, or in any way affiliated with the religious denomination.

All it would take is a simple fact check - you could very easily find out which church Scott Morrison attends in his electorate, and it's not Hillsong - and you would not be spreading misinformation.  Take a moment and consider that if the sitting PM were in any way involved in the cover-up of child abuse at Hillsong church, then the media would be working its very hardest to investigate and expose that link.  This isn't happening because of some conspiracy; it's not happening because Morrison literally is not a member of Hillsong church.

[GoTfan]

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

Another example of people believing their own propaganda.  Hillsong isn't his church.

So it's fake news that he's been to Hillsong services multiple times?

Consider employing your critical thinking skills.

Now, we know that politicians attend religious services on a regular basis.  This does not mean that they are members of that congregation, or in any way affiliated with the religious denomination.

All it would take is a simple fact check - you could very easily find out which church Scott Morrison attends in his electorate, and it's not Hillsong - and you would not be spreading misinformation.  Take a moment and consider that if the sitting PM were in any way involved in the cover-up of child abuse at Hillsong church, then the media would be working its very hardest to investigate and expose that link.  This isn't happening because of some conspiracy; it's not happening because Morrison literally is not a member of Hillsong church.

You severely overestimate Australian media's desire to hold the Liberals accountable forn anything

[AustralianSwingVoter]

You’re both taking the debate slightly too seriously. It was broadcast on Sky getting their usual anemic ratings. Leader’s debates have never mattered in past elections and there’s no sign of that changing.

That comment about being blessed not to have disabled children is certainly making the rounds, though.

It’s just like any speech a politician gives. If you stay on script nobody cares but if you make a bad gaffe it’ll make the rounds of all the papers. Personally (as someone on the NDIS for Autism) I can see the point he thought he was making, and many would agree with it, but the way he worded it couched in his evangelical holier-than-thou was truly vile.

And then of course we have Hollie Hughes who grabbed the shovel with both hands and started digging even more.

It speaks volumes  that most of the socon foot-in-mouth problems of recent years have come from ScoMo’s centre-right faction rather than the conservative hard right faction. Hilarious that Dutton has got the traditional right go tone down social causes and focus on Law and Order/National Security while the NSW centre-right have taken over as resident bible bashers. Federal Liberal factions are so cursed.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

Another example of people believing their own propaganda.  Hillsong isn't his church.

So it's fake news that he's been to Hillsong services multiple times?

He’s attended Hillsong churches a couple times but it’s not his church. Instead he attends Horizon Church which is more traditional Pentecostal and much more community based. Bit of a shame they renamed from ShireLive which was an obvious red flag they were nutty happy-clappy types (and that they’re aggressively from the shire)

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Other than the fact that his church is now under investigation for child abuse, right?

Another example of people believing their own propaganda.  Hillsong isn't his church.

So it's fake news that he's been to Hillsong services multiple times?

Consider employing your critical thinking skills.

Now, we know that politicians attend religious services on a regular basis.  This does not mean that they are members of that congregation, or in any way affiliated with the religious denomination.

All it would take is a simple fact check - you could very easily find out which church Scott Morrison attends in his electorate, and it's not Hillsong - and you would not be spreading misinformation.  Take a moment and consider that if the sitting PM were in any way involved in the cover-up of child abuse at Hillsong church, then the media would be working its very hardest to investigate and expose that link.  This isn't happening because of some conspiracy; it's not happening because Morrison literally is not a member of Hillsong church.

You severely overestimate Australian media's desire to hold the Liberals accountable forn anything

Yes but not because they’re all Liberal shills (only The Oz is ideologically wedded to the Libs) but rather because holding politicians to account is boring and doesn’t sell newspapers. The Murdoch city tabloids and the West Aus just publish generic lower middle class suburbanite resentment.

[Pulaski]

I actually used to live and work around the corner from Horizon Church, Scott Morrison's church in Sutherland - and just because it's not Hillsong does not mean it's not dodgy. It's a Pentecostal church whose members often believe in laying of hands to heal the sick - my sister was dragged there by a friend once as a teenager, and she was on crutches as she'd recently dislocated her knee. One pastor there laid hands on her, then told her to drop her crutches and walk normally as she'd been healed. Needless to say it didn't go well.

Far more important than that, the church emphasizes the existence of spiritual gifts - the idea that people are rewarded in this life for their faith, and if they don't receive blessings it's because they're not steadfast enough in their faith. Morrison adamantly believes in this - indeed, if you read Sean Kelly's "The Game" you'll read about how he attributes the birth of his daughters to him finally doing enough to please God. When taken in this context, I definitely think that his comments about disabled children are relevant - he and his church believe those who have disabled children have done something to merit that. Moreover, it explains why Morrison and his government don't give a damn about properly funding the NDIS.

[Pulaski]

And perhaps more importantly lockdowns we’re a state government decision with very little input from the Feds. As such if people were angry at lockdowns we would’ve seen it in recent state elections. Which we haven’t.

TBF the two states that actually experienced proper lockdowns haven’t had state elections yet.

WA didn't lock down as such but it hermetically sealed itself off from the rest of the country in order to avoid it, and McGowan won one of the greatest victories for a State government in modern history off the back of it.

The Victorian government is likely to romp home later this year.

The Coalition in NSW will maybe have a tougher time given we're not due for an election until 2023, but the situation's complicated by the fact that Perrottet has taken over from Berejiklian in that time and we've moved on. Berejiklian had high approvals up until her resignation though.

So overall, lockdowns were approved of and widely complied with, and people living in a country that's set to reach 1 million covid deaths don't really have a leg to stand on if they want to lecture us.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I hate when this forum "Americanizes"--you know, overstating the "totalitarianism" of lockdowns.

If you think opposition to totalitarian lockdowns is a purely American phenonenon, it might be you who has an America-centric worldview.

If you genuinely think Australia's lockdowns were totalitarian you're listening to too much Ted Cruz and not enough of us who actually went through them.

Speak for yourself.  Being confined to a 5 kilometre radius for 3 months at a time, repeatedly, under the threat of thousands of dollars of fines, is not an experience that I care to repeat.

It is not an experience I care to repeat either, but it was one that I felt was necessary at the time (along with many health experts).

The Issue is not so much the past lockdown but a consistent push by a loud minority to normalize some aspects of the lockdown permanently, minimize how invasive it was to fundamental rights and perhaps some remnants who want to re-adopt a zero covid approach.

Look at how people have been complaning about the scrapping of vaccine pass systems(despite almost all evidence indicating that they were useless at actualy preventing spread outside of encouraging vaccination) and how some people want to make mask wearing a permenant part of life(treating it as no different from another piece of clothing).

Your post is an example of how those outside Australia totally misunderstand its policies. I can tell you definitively that mask wearing is barely required in any normal setting anymore here; hospitals and public transport (and it is not now, nor was it ever, enforced on public transport). Some of you seem to have this picture of Australia as a police state when we have been living fairly normally and lockdown-free for about 6 months now.

I understand quite well what the situation was like in australia and how defacto for much of the population life was pretty normal and is now everywhere pretty normal. My comment is about the long-term political effects and why people are still concerned about them.

Do you live in Singapore or not?

I do live in singapore, but i'm familiar with Australias approach to covid and the reality of what measure were imposed.

[Pericles]

Asides from the border restrictions, and with Melbourne as an unlucky exception, Australia and NZ did comparatively well at minimizing restrictions on the domestic population, as well as doing amazing comparatively at saving lives.

[GoTfan]

You’re both taking the debate slightly too seriously. It was broadcast on Sky getting their usual anemic ratings. Leader’s debates have never mattered in past elections and there’s no sign of that changing.

That comment about being blessed not to have disabled children is certainly making the rounds, though.

It’s just like any speech a politician gives. If you stay on script nobody cares but if you make a bad gaffe it’ll make the rounds of all the papers. Personally (as someone on the NDIS for Autism) I can see the point he thought he was making, and many would agree with it, but the way he worded it couched in his evangelical holier-than-thou was truly vile.

And then of course we have Hollie Hughes who grabbed the shovel with both hands and started digging even more.

It speaks volumes  that most of the socon foot-in-mouth problems of recent years have come from ScoMo’s centre-right faction rather than the conservative hard right faction. Hilarious that Dutton has got the traditional right go tone down social causes and focus on Law and Order/National Security while the NSW centre-right have taken over as resident bible bashers. Federal Liberal factions are so cursed.

Dutton's still a horrible person who wants to create a borderline police state.

[GoTfan]

Albo has tested positive for COVID and going into isolation for the next week. Not sure how this will affect the election, given the fact that campaigns have become increasingly presidential in the last 30-odd years.

[Pulaski]

Albo has tested positive for COVID and going into isolation for the next week. Not sure how this will affect the election, given the fact that campaigns have become increasingly presidential in the last 30-odd years.

Actually may not be the worst thing given his poor start; kind of forces him to revert back to that small target strategy he’s previously employed. Morrison is not a popular man and a week in which the media is forced to focus on him is bound to generate more publicity.

[brucejoel99]

Albo has tested positive for COVID and going into isolation for the next week. Not sure how this will affect the election, given the fact that campaigns have become increasingly presidential in the last 30-odd years.

Hopefully for the better if Labor is smart & uses the next week to highlight the frontbench stars like Chalmers & Wong.

[Pulaski]

Asides from the border restrictions, and with Melbourne as an unlucky exception, Australia and NZ did comparatively well at minimizing restrictions on the domestic population, as well as doing amazing comparatively at saving lives.

Listen, we both know you were forced to post this by your Stalinist masters. Join the resistance, brother; we’re looking to flee to the land of the free, which imprisons its citizens at a greater rate than any other state in the world.

[Pulaski]

Albo has tested positive for COVID and going into isolation for the next week. Not sure how this will affect the election, given the fact that campaigns have become increasingly presidential in the last 30-odd years.

Hopefully for the better if Labor is smart & uses the next week to highlight the frontbench stars like Chalmers & Wong.

I must be one of the few that’s underwhelmed by Chalmers. He’s a likely future leader but just comes across as very bland and mechanic.

She’s probably some way off it, but if the next leader has to be from the Right, then Clare O’Neil is my pick. She’s currently the shadow minister for aged care and presumably is a big player behind the party’s strategy/policy in this area. Very impressive.

[brucejoel99]

Albo has tested positive for COVID and going into isolation for the next week. Not sure how this will affect the election, given the fact that campaigns have become increasingly presidential in the last 30-odd years.

Hopefully for the better if Labor is smart & uses the next week to highlight the frontbench stars like Chalmers & Wong.

I must be one of the few that’s underwhelmed by Chalmers. He’s a likely future leader but just comes across as very bland and mechanic.

She’s probably some way off it, but if the next leader has to be from the Right, then Clare O’Neil is my pick. She’s currently the shadow minister for aged care and presumably is a big player behind the party’s strategy/policy in this area. Very impressive.

She's very good (how can't you be when you're a Fulbright scholar?), if in need of some more time in the political limelight.

If nothing else, Chalmers is an undeniable asset for Labor in Queensland, particularly since he's somehow mastered the art of presenting himself on behalf of Labor as a sensible, well-spoken pragmatist. If anything, as far as campaigning in Queensland is concerned, Labor should be campaigning by treating him as the realist Keating to Albo's idealist Hawke, if only just for those Queenslanders who'll never be able to bring themselves to vote for somebody other than "one of their own" (see: Kevin '07), especially when they honestly hate nothing more than condescending out-of-staters perceived to be telling them what's good for them (which is arguably, if not exactly what lost Shorten's Labor the last election 3 years ago).

[Pulaski]

Albo has tested positive for COVID and going into isolation for the next week. Not sure how this will affect the election, given the fact that campaigns have become increasingly presidential in the last 30-odd years.

Hopefully for the better if Labor is smart & uses the next week to highlight the frontbench stars like Chalmers & Wong.

I must be one of the few that’s underwhelmed by Chalmers. He’s a likely future leader but just comes across as very bland and mechanic.

She’s probably some way off it, but if the next leader has to be from the Right, then Clare O’Neil is my pick. She’s currently the shadow minister for aged care and presumably is a big player behind the party’s strategy/policy in this area. Very impressive.

She's very good (how can't you be when you're a Fulbright scholar?), if in need of some more time in the political limelight.

If nothing else, Chalmers is an undeniable asset for Labor in Queensland, particularly since he's somehow mastered the art of presenting himself on behalf of Labor as a sensible, well-spoken pragmatist. If anything, as far as campaigning in Queensland is concerned, Labor should be campaigning by treating him as the realist Keating to Albo's idealist Hawke, if only just for those Queenslanders who'll never be able to bring themselves to vote for somebody other than "one of their own" (see: Kevin '07), especially when they honestly hate nothing more than condescending out-of-staters perceived to be telling them what's good for them (which is arguably, if not exactly what lost Shorten's Labor the last election 3 years ago).

Your characterisations of Hawke and Keating are interesting. I doubt I'd class either of them as an idealist, but if I had to I'd be more inclined to place Keating in that category over Hawke, especially as Hawke was famously not really focused on policy.

Your point is interesting though, and I suppose it's not a coincidence that Keating is one of Chalmers' major mentors. I agree he is likely to be an electoral asset due to being from Queensland. Never understood people who are swayed by leaders coming from the same area as them (MPs are fine - you want your local representative to truly be from your community, I can see that).

Then again maybe I'm spoiled since Morrison was my previous MP, Plibersek is my MP now and Albanese is just next door. Maybe I'll pop over to see him in Marrickville while he's housebound.

[tik 🪀✨]

Asides from the border restrictions, and with Melbourne as an unlucky exception, Australia and NZ did comparatively well at minimizing restrictions on the domestic population, as well as doing amazing comparatively at saving lives.

Luck had little to nothing to do with what we were subjected to here. It was all very deliberate (although also very haphazard and reckless) and has left a scar in many ordinary people in ways that will impact their voting behaviour for years.

You also leave out that restrictions in Melbourne and Sydney, interstate and overseas travel restrictions, etc impacted regional Australia economically and socially too. People in states without restrictions themselves had impacts cascading to them. Whether or not this is a net good when factoring in theoretical worst case death toll scenarios is irrelevant when it's what actually defined the last few years for you: not seeing family and friends, plans being ruined, losing income, just ballooning uncertainty everywhere.

Luckily for Labor the Australian population seem to be largely docile. There's no strong tradition of standing up for human rights. It's not something that activates a majority of people, unfortunately. However, there is still a portion of people who ought to be labor-leaning who have gone a little nutty because of the abuse they've endured. It is what it is.

[adma]

Asides from the border restrictions, and with Melbourne as an unlucky exception, Australia and NZ did comparatively well at minimizing restrictions on the domestic population, as well as doing amazing comparatively at saving lives.

Luck had little to nothing to do with what we were subjected to here. It was all very deliberate (although also very haphazard and reckless) and has left a scar in many ordinary people in ways that will impact their voting behaviour for years.

You also leave out that restrictions in Melbourne and Sydney, interstate and overseas travel restrictions, etc impacted regional Australia economically and socially too. People in states without restrictions themselves had impacts cascading to them. Whether or not this is a net good when factoring in theoretical worst case death toll scenarios is irrelevant when it's what actually defined the last few years for you: not seeing family and friends, plans being ruined, losing income, just ballooning uncertainty everywhere.

Luckily for Labor the Australian population seem to be largely docile. There's no strong tradition of standing up for human rights. It's not something that activates a majority of people, unfortunately. However, there is still a portion of people who ought to be labor-leaning who have gone a little nutty because of the abuse they've endured. It is what it is.

TBH, Australia isn't alone in being what it was being subjected to.  As they used to say during wartime, it was "for the duration".

And if you want to know what leads people to be voluntarily docile, it's because they're left with the unflattering impression that this kind of "standing up for human rights" is, in practice, kinfolk to something like Christian conservative or men's rights types claiming to "stand up for human rights".