Biden to tap oil reserves in coordination with China, South Korea, Japan, India, and the UK

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.

indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

 That's not at all what I said. If you can't figure out that policy and politics intertwine and that short term goals and long term goals have to be balanced and reconciled I don't know what to tell you.

if you want gasoline to stay cheap you don't really care about the environment (or you're a moron), it doesn't matter what excuses you make for the position.  Just know that some of us will remember this next time one of the half wits want to ban some tiny piece of plastic used in places with successful garbage collection systems.

If you want less plastic in the ocean, convince Asia, Africa and S.America to do something with their garbage other than throw it in the river.  If you want less crap getting pumped into the air, pump less crap into the air.  An easy way to do that is let gasoline become slightly more expensive.  No laws need to be passed, no one has to be forced to do something by the authorities*.





*I understand that this is some people's favorite part of the laws they want to pass

I want the world to move on from gasoline. Republican politicians who support drill baby drill with no regulations are not going to get us there. It takes long term planning and welding political power, only a moron doesn't understand this. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.

That's true, but it's mathematically impossible to generate a successful long-term plan without demanding behavior change from working and middle class Americans--starting now. How do you think we can fix climate change if we don't coerce people into consuming less gasoline? Ultimately, you have to move from the politicking phase to the implementing phase or it's all kind of pointless. In 2021, simply being anti drill-baby-drill won't get us that far.

 This is currently not realistic and counter productive, if you lose elections and political power to rivals who are going to move us many steps back. It really is that simple. Look at Trump blowing up CAFE standards that Obama passed. How does that help us reduce gasoline usage?

 When the alternative is so defiantly ignorant and uncaring about the environment trying to bash Biden or look for silly "hypocrisies" is not only dishonest, it's worthy of contempt.

That's cute rhetoric. Unfortunately, it's also totally devoid of policy substance. Show me the cold, hard math on how we can keep warming below 2 degrees Celsius without reducing the amount of gasoline Americans buy. If you can't do that, the consequences of your plans are unacceptable. The thing about climate change is that it's a pass/fail binary with a hard deadline. Moving ahead insufficiently, maintaining the status quo, or even slipping under Republican rule all essentially lead to the same place.

[GP270watch]

That's cute rhetoric. Unfortunately, it's also totally devoid of policy substance. Show me the cold, hard math on how we can keep warming below 2 degrees Celsius without reducing the amount of gasoline Americans buy. If you can't do that, the consequences of your plans are unacceptable. The thing about climate change is that it's a pass/fail binary with a hard deadline. Moving ahead insufficiently, maintaining the status quo, or even slipping under Republican rule all essentially lead to the same place.

 It's not rhetoric because you are starting with the presumption that the reality you understand is accepted by everybody and it's not. Climate predictions can always be worse, with worse policy. Saying Biden's policies are not good enough is a fair enough point but not when you are trying to say liberals are hypocrites and you lean or support conservatives who would literally set this Earth on fire with no regard at all because they don't care. This distinction is important, if you don't think it is, good luck with that.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

That's cute rhetoric. Unfortunately, it's also totally devoid of policy substance. Show me the cold, hard math on how we can keep warming below 2 degrees Celsius without reducing the amount of gasoline Americans buy. If you can't do that, the consequences of your plans are unacceptable. The thing about climate change is that it's a pass/fail binary with a hard deadline. Moving ahead insufficiently, maintaining the status quo, or even slipping under Republican rule all essentially lead to the same place.

 It's not rhetoric because you are starting with the presumption that the reality you understand is accepted by everybody and it's not. Climate predictions can always be worse, with worse policy. Saying Biden's policies are not good enough is a fair enough point but not when you are trying to say liberals are hypocrites and you lean or support conservatives who would literally set this Earth on fire with no regard at all because they don't care. This distinction is important, if you don't think it is, good luck with that.

I don't really care whether other people understand this reality or not. There are not "multiple valid interpretations of reality." I am correct that a certain amount of CO2 emissions will have disastrous medium term consequences and people who disagree are just wrong. Because I do not represent the Democratic Party in any official capacity and have no illusions of affecting how people vote, I don't need to pretend to have patience for those who can't understand simple carbon accounting. I don't "lean or support conservatives who would literally set this Earth on fire" and I remain a strong Biden supporter, even though I disagree with this specific position. Ironically, I am a committed, principled liberal and pointing out that fellow "liberals" are often hypocritical only reinforces that. It's frustrating, because I know we--as a group of people--can be better. I have no time for partisan dogma.

My points that 1. no substantive accomplishments on climate can be made without consumers purchasing less gas and 2. higher gas prices achieve that are just falsifiably true. It is also true that this action, though intended to reduce the price of gas (a bad thing), will not actually achieve that goal in the long term--which still makes it basically a stupid thing to do. It is, in fact, possible to point out that the Biden administration would be better suited to achieve it's goals by not doing one minor action on an obscure politics forum without causing the Republicans to win every election in perpetuity and roll back all climate action. Besides, most political actions have no consequences because voters are ridiculous so nothing we do actually matters.

So will you please actually figure out how we're going to completely solve climate change without inconveniencing the American driver? Or do you just not care about the tangible, unavoidable consequences of public policy and care only about inane point scoring for 2022?

[GP270watch]

So will you please actually figure out how we're going to completely solve climate change without inconveniencing the American driver? Or do you just not care about the tangible, unavoidable consequences of public policy and care only about inane point scoring for 2022?

 You are being disingenuous. I already gave you an example look at Obama CAFE standards vs Trump, how much less gasoline would be used in this scenario? Electrification of vehicles is a policy Biden is aggressively pursuing with his build back better bill, a bill that not a single Republican will vote for. Cars are problematic to begin with but where is the political will to reduce cars and promote public transportation in the United States of America, it doesn't really exist. Politicians have to work within what the public will accept. If Biden and Democrats lose because of high gas prices, The United States and therefore the world will be in a worse position on the climate front. The temporary difference in gas prices won't produce a large enough benefit(if any at all) versus green lighting more drilling, reducing emissions standards, drilling environmentally protected areas, and letting fossil fuel companies totally make our energy policy.  If you can not not understand this, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Vice President Christian Man]

Great way to deplete our oil and make gas even more expensive in the long run, once we run out. If Biden hadn't stopped construction of the oil pipelines and put more red tape on an already fragile industry, we would likely see slightly higher fuel prices because of the dire economic situation compared to 2020, but not the $7 like what we've been seeing in California. Deregulate the energy sector and allow the free market to decide gas prices. That way it would be much cheaper for consumers for fuel and heating. The US was heading towards energy independence, and now Biden has made us reliant on the Saudi's again. Last thing we need is another war for oil.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

So will you please actually figure out how we're going to completely solve climate change without inconveniencing the American driver? Or do you just not care about the tangible, unavoidable consequences of public policy and care only about inane point scoring for 2022?

 You are being disingenuous. I already gave you an example look at Obama CAFE standards vs Trump, how much less gasoline would be used in this scenario? Electrification of vehicles is a policy Biden is aggressively pursuing with his build back better bill, a bill that not a single Republican will vote for. Cars are problematic to begin with but where is the political will to reduce cars and promote public transportation in the United States of America, it doesn't really exist. Politicians have to work within what the public will accept. If Biden and Democrats lose because of high gas prices, The United States and therefore the world will be in a worse position on the climate front. The temporary difference in gas prices won't produce a large enough benefit(if any at all) versus green lighting more drilling, reducing emissions standards, drilling environmentally protected areas, and letting fossil fuel companies totally make our energy policy.  If you can not not understand this, I don't know what to tell you.

If you can't understand that I'm criticizing this as a bad idea on principle, I don't know what to tell you. I'm interested in having a normative conversation of what we should do on a policy front, detached from electoral short-termism. My point, and Dead0's is about the principle of high gas prices being an absolute prerequisite to meaningful CO2 emissions. I don't give a crap about this specific (dumb) action that will have no political consequences. Also, Biden is not losing 2024 because of so-called high gas prices in 2021. That's just dumb.


Also, CAFE has always been bullsh*t.

[GP270watch]

If you can't understand that I'm criticizing this as a bad idea on principle, I don't know what to tell you. I'm interested in having a normative conversation of what we should do on a policy front, detached from electoral short-termism. My point, and Dead0's is about the principle of high gas prices being an absolute prerequisite to meaningful CO2 emissions. I don't give a crap about this specific (dumb) action that will have no political consequences. Also, Biden is not losing 2024 because of so-called high gas prices in 2021. That's just dumb.


Also, CAFE has always been bullsh*t.

 Wrong, and Obama's CAFE standards were very ambitious.

Researchers cite that CAFE standards saved $5 trillion in fuel costs and prevented 14 billion metric tons of carbon from being released into the atmosphere

 If you are interested in what you claim start a thread about that. Reconcile how what needs to be done can be achieved in our political environment. Instead you're talking nonsense in a thread about several countries tapping oil reserves(i.e. oil that is already mostly extracted to give temporary relief to consumers). Which doesn't really make any sense when there are much bigger threats to our environment like people using these temporary high gasoline prices to say we should re-start Keystone which would be environmentally disastrous. There is literally a thread on the front page about Manchin suggesting this. Everything has to be viewed in context or you have nothing and you make no sense.

[Big Abraham]

HP move.

[Calthrina950]

HP move.

I've become more disenchanted by this Administration as time moves on.

[jojoju1998]

This is only a temp. Solution to stabilize the economy. This should not be seen as a major policy move.

[Hollywood]

As much I love having conversations about the solutions for Climate Change, I’m not willing to have one at the current time.   No Nation wants to make any substantive changes right now other than securing oil, or preferably, natural gas in expectation of a very harsh winter in Europe and the Northeast.  

2021 Ice extent for this time in November has jumped from 4th lowest to 11th after flirting with the 13th spot.  Arctic Jet is holding cold air nice and tight over the Sea, allowing for cold to build up.  The Cross polar flow has set up from Alaska and NW Canada to Central and Eastern Europe, but will readjust to Siberia and put the Western and Central US in deep freeze as we head into the December 7-11th timeframe.    The area of cold and dry arctic air matches up very nicely with the worst Covid-19 condition in Eastern Europe and the United States.  
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs&region=nhem&pkg=T2ma&runtime=2021112512&fh=0

During the Trump Administration, Green Energy startups and Product Consumption showed steady progress up until February, which is when I left my positions.  The problem is that states are not allowing explorations and extraction of precious metals in the United States due to environmental concerns.  Thus, the supply chain issues preclude the viability of green energy projects.  For example, UAMY has discovered Antimony mines in the United States that is necessary for Green Energy and EV products, but they are continuously hampered by regulations, including the Biden policy to disallow mining operations in the nation.  Biden’s policy forces the United States to continue relying on China, which has 90% of the market share.  Due to the trade war with China, Trump had moved us toward green energy independence by allowing companies to extract from a local source.  Biden F-ed it up once again.  So… I have nothing to say to Democrats on the issue of Global Warming, because Bidden is putting a stop to absolutely necessary projects.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/biden-looks-abroad-electric-vehicle-metals-blow-us-miners-2021-05-25/

At the moment, the Biden Administration is very frustrated in it’s attempt to acquire greater supply of oil for the nation, but he should also worry about the natural gas that the country will need this winter.  As I said, it’s going to be harsh for Europe and the United States cause there’s a good supply of cold air building in the Arctic, and also, the teleconnections (pattern signals) indicate very cold blast that will be focused on the Western United States, but cover the entire country.  The East will warm up due to the SE Ridge pumping up, which is going to cause drastic changes from cold to warm to cold to warm.  Now the US is placed in a terrible position where it has to beg Russia and Saudi Arabia for energy, but the two nations were repudiated by Biden very publicly.  The news about China and India helping out is hogwash, because they don’t have a lot of oil reserves, and it’s not as if they can effect world markets by selling and transporting excess oil overseas.  

It's late not for Biden.  The situation cannot be fixed in time.  

[Vice President Christian Man]

HP move.

I've become more disenchanted by this Administration as time moves on.

Biden has so far proven to match/exceed my lowest expectations, with the exception of avoiding a national lockdown and seeming to move away from neoliberal economics with his infrastructure and BBB plans. However it also seems like we are headed towards becoming a puppet state of our enemies which I feared would happen, which was one of the primary reasons I didn't vote for him.

[DINGO Joe]

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve in Jan 2017--695 million barrels
The Strategic Petroleum Reserve in Jan 2021--638 million barrels

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WCSSTUS1&f=W

Idiots.  What an empty void you are.

[Mr. Illini]

It's a smart decision.

How is this a smart decision? Americans use about 20 million barrels a day. Tapping 50M of oil out of the reserves is barely going to do anything past a few weeks. All this is doing is making us less prepared for a black swan event or a similar emergency. All Joe Biden is doing this for is political gain and will do nothing to reduce long-term costs.

This is easily one of the worst moves the Biden administration has done.

“The amount he’s releasing is so small it won’t make a difference, but it also leaves us grossly unprepared in event of an emergency.”

Ok

[DINGO Joe]

The Strategic Petroleum Reserve stopped being "strategic" when we went from getting oil from the Middle East and Venezuela to getting oil from Canada and the US.  The oil stored in the SPR isn't particularly liked by refiners on the gulf coast living off a diet of fracked oil and can't reach refiners in the Midwest who get their oil from Canada.  It would take quite the Black Swan event to make Canadian oil unavailable. 

[Holy Unifying Centrist]

It's a smart decision.

How is this a smart decision? Americans use about 20 million barrels a day. Tapping 50M of oil out of the reserves is barely going to do anything past a few weeks. All this is doing is making us less prepared for a black swan event or a similar emergency. All Joe Biden is doing this for is political gain and will do nothing to reduce long-term costs.

This is easily one of the worst moves the Biden administration has done.

“The amount he’s releasing is so small it won’t make a difference, but it also leaves us grossly unprepared in event of an emergency.”

Ok

Notice how I didn’t say the second part of your sentence. Don’t put words in my mouth if you’re too brain dead to read.

[Former President tack50]

I'm not bashing specifically Biden for anything.  I'm flatty stating that wanting cheap gas and fewer greenhouse gases is moronic.  Expensive (or at least non-cheap) gasoline is an excellent way to create fewer greenhouse gases, and does it the world over.  It makes electric vehicles a viable alternative way faster than any CAFE standard could.  It makes people use less gasoline.  It makes people purchase more efficient vehicles.  These are good things.

It is worth noting that while what you say is true, demand for gasoline is very inelastic and high gas prices just means more people pissed off, especially in the short term

[dead0man]

I'm not bashing specifically Biden for anything.  I'm flatty stating that wanting cheap gas and fewer greenhouse gases is moronic.  Expensive (or at least non-cheap) gasoline is an excellent way to create fewer greenhouse gases, and does it the world over.  It makes electric vehicles a viable alternative way faster than any CAFE standard could.  It makes people use less gasoline.  It makes people purchase more efficient vehicles.  These are good things.

It is worth noting that while what you say is true, demand for gasoline is very inelastic and high gas prices just means more people pissed off, especially in the short term

it's just going to be our political enemies (those that aren't worried about climate change) that are pissed off, why do we care about those people all of a sudden?  No one who is actually worried about climate change is going to be pissed off.  I suppose it does shine a light on those that lie about being worried about climate change, but don't we want to find out who the fakers are?  The pointing and laughing at them is fun, plus maybe a couple of them learn something.

[Mr. Illini]

It's a smart decision.

How is this a smart decision? Americans use about 20 million barrels a day. Tapping 50M of oil out of the reserves is barely going to do anything past a few weeks. All this is doing is making us less prepared for a black swan event or a similar emergency. All Joe Biden is doing this for is political gain and will do nothing to reduce long-term costs.

This is easily one of the worst moves the Biden administration has done.

“The amount he’s releasing is so small it won’t make a difference, but it also leaves us grossly unprepared in event of an emergency.”

Ok

Notice how I didn’t say the second part of your sentence. Don’t put words in my mouth if you’re too brain dead to read.

Is your defense that you didn’t say “grossly”? Because you said it “is making us less prepared for a black swan event or a similar emergency.”

[DINGO Joe]

Oil is down about 12% today, so y'all should rush out and load up your trash cans.

[DINGO Joe]

Oil is now down 25% from their recent highs.  Fill up your bathtubs people

[dead0man]

well thank Og the large truck market didn't crash and people didn't start buying small, efficient cars again, that would have been horrible   Also thank you reds for giving the rest of us an excellent "excuse me, but" next time you clowns want to ban grocery bags.

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

Oil is now down 25% from their recent highs.  Fill up your bathtubs people

Is it time to break out the trash bags yet?

[FT-02 Senator A.F.E. 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

Oil is now down 25% from their recent highs.  Fill up your bathtubs people

Is it time to break out the trash bags yet?

Sure, I just need some Styrofoam pellets

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

Oil is now down 25% from their recent highs.  Fill up your bathtubs people

Is it time to break out the trash bags yet?

Sure, I just need some Styrofoam pellets

I love the smell of napalm in the morning