Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Certain people in this thread would do good for what little remains of their reputations if they were to cease posting in it.

[Storr]

The M-14 is an excellent weapon. Wood stocks swell in tropical climates, like Vietnam, and that earned them their poor reputation and led to their early replacement. That won't be an issue in not very tropical Ukraine.

Edit: another issue with the M-14 was that they were difficult to control and inaccurate when in full automatic mode. But I assume these will be used by Territorial Defense units, where they simply need working guns. An M-14 is still far better than a bolt action Mosin-Nagant, which most/many separatist forces have been seen using. 

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1505235699821420548?s=20&t=mD6X2jypiSSR...

[GeorgiaModerate]

The M-14 is an excellent weapon. Wood stocks swell in tropical climates, like Vietnam, and that earned them their poor reputation and led to their early replacement. That won't be an issue in notoriously not very tropical Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1505235699821420548?s=20&t=mD6X2jypiSSR...

That brings back some memories!  We used them in Junior ROTC when I was in high school in the early 1970s.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

Why don’t you move to China if  you like it so much , and given you call China your country instead of the US .


You are literally the best possible example of how immigrants should not act and you are a disgrace to the immigrant community

[Lord Halifax]

Although not much of a division within Latin America and the Caribbean:

But do go on about the West. Fascists of a feather flock together and all that.

You mean condemning Russian invasion? That’s just everyone’s sane position. Even China doesn’t agree with it even if they won’t directly oppose Russia and will rather hide behind neutrality.

One very different thing is supporting this articulation of full isolation of a country and realistically, you cannot deny there isn’t a major geographical divide shaping up. Forget China, there’s also:

- India is working for an alternative exchange way to go around western sanctions
- South Africa publicly saying the war is NATO’s fault
- Brazil joined the countries above in asking for Russia’s claim of US Biological labs to be investigated and wanting Russia partnership for its nuclear subs projects
- Saudi Arabia (!!!!) studying to make payments to Russia in Chinese coin. Even Israel, seen as western ally, behaved more like Iran in this issue lol
- Mexico, Argentina and others positioning against the international institutions being kidnapped to propel an isolation of Russia. And those all are places which condemned the invasion when it started, as you said.

The only non-Anglo and non-European countries that are aligning are Japan and South Korea. You can’t talk about “international community united” without almost all of Asia, all of Africa and Latin America. It’s a divide being stimulated that simply isn’t good for anyone, if you don’t understand the possible consequences.

Okay, assuming you're right (and ignoring that there are more exceptions than the ones you mention), why is "the developing world" IYO unwilling to do anything efficient to stop Russia's agression?

[It’s so Joever]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

Why don’t you move to China if  you like it so much , and given you call China your country instead of the US .


You are literally the best possible example of how immigrants should not act and you are a disgrace to the immigrant community

This…is a bit too far. Immigrants can be supportive of certain policies of their homeland even if there were other reasons they left. The only disgraces to the immigrant community imo are those who rally against immigration in general (not illegal immigration so don’t start there) immediately once they get here.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

Why don’t you move to China if  you like it so much , and given you call China your country instead of the US .


You are literally the best possible example of how immigrants should not act and you are a disgrace to the immigrant community

This…is a bit too far. Immigrants can be supportive of certain policies of their homeland even if there were other reasons they left. The only disgraces to the immigrant community imo are those who rally against immigration in general (not illegal immigration so don’t start there) immediately once they get here.

He has gone far beyond that though, and has said multiple times he is loyal to the government of China not the United States and calls China his country over and over while never doing the same to the US.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

Why don’t you move to China if  you like it so much , and given you call China your country instead of the US .


You are literally the best possible example of how immigrants should not act and you are a disgrace to the immigrant community

This…is a bit too far. Immigrants can be supportive of certain policies of their homeland even if there were other reasons they left. The only disgraces to the immigrant community imo are those who rally against immigration in general (not illegal immigration so don’t start there) immediately once they get here.

It'd be one thing if he just had strong opinions on the politics of the country he immigrated from; that's any immigrant's right, and Lord knows I have strong opinions on Italian (and Russian for that matter!) politics despite my people having immigrated from Italy and Russia a century ago. The issue is that he openly and affirmatively roots for relations between his home country and his current country of residence to worsen, to the point of sneering at the latter's humanitarian concerns about a country that's currently more friendly to the former bombing theaters and hospitals as part of an unprovoked war of conquest. Actively advocating worse relations between two countries one has extensive ties to is bad form, to say the least, without even bringing questions of loyalty into it.

[It’s so Joever]

Although not much of a division within Latin America and the Caribbean:

But do go on about the West. Fascists of a feather flock together and all that.

You mean condemning Russian invasion? That’s just everyone’s sane position. Even China doesn’t agree with it even if they won’t directly oppose Russia and will rather hide behind neutrality.

One very different thing is supporting this articulation of full isolation of a country and realistically, you cannot deny there isn’t a major geographical divide shaping up. Forget China, there’s also:

- India is working for an alternative exchange way to go around western sanctions
- South Africa publicly saying the war is NATO’s fault
- Brazil joined the countries above in asking for Russia’s claim of US Biological labs to be investigated and wanting Russia partnership for its nuclear subs projects
- Saudi Arabia (!!!!) studying to make payments to Russia in Chinese coin. Even Israel, seen as western ally, behaved more like Iran in this issue lol
- Mexico, Argentina and others positioning against the international institutions being kidnapped to propel an isolation of Russia. And those all are places which condemned the invasion when it started, as you said.

The only non-Anglo and non-European countries that are aligning are Japan and South Korea. You can’t talk about “international community united” without almost all of Asia, all of Africa and Latin America. It’s a divide being stimulated that simply isn’t good for anyone, if you don’t understand the possible consequences.

Okay, assuming you're right (and ignoring that there are more exceptions than the ones you mention), why is "the developing world" IYO unwilling to do anything efficient to stop Russia's agression?

Because in his mind there is a clear West vs everyone else divide that permeates literally everything else no matter what.
Never mind the fact that this is a serious oversimplification and completely ignores a ton of geopolitical and economic realities.
Never mind the fact that the entire concept of third world is itself a ridiculous assumption. I mean Ukraine is literally poorer than Russia, but go off about how this is some revolt of the poor oppressed richer nuclear state I guess.
It’s also what I dislike about postcolonial IR critical theory, I like the actual critical theory itself, but people seem to mistake this critical theory as something that stands on its own, when really it’s just a valid criticism of mainstream theories that actually can. The world isn’t so simple.

[pppolitics]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

Why don’t you move to China if  you like it so much , and given you call China your country instead of the US .


You are literally the best possible example of how immigrants should not act and you are a disgrace to the immigrant community

Has has gotten too comfortable with Western comforts to work in a sweatshop for a dollar a day.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I also forgot to mention that for someone who claims to be taking a HARD-NOSED UNSENTIMENTAL VIEW OF THINGS based on WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF HIS PEOPLE, there's something very...well, baizuo, in the radlib-identitarian sense, about compucomp's bitching and moaning about how badly done by China is at the hands of whitey. I bet if Xi Jinping were posting on this forum and making these same arguments he wouldn't be nearly as whiny, self-pitying, and weirdly pessimistic about China's status as a rising superpower. Have some self-confidence in these positions if you're going to be flogging them this hard, for crying out loud.

[Storr]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1505262100922478599?s=20&t=gOjZXBd...

[Storr]

Ummm...

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1505264048002240515?s=20&t=rV8M-l...

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1505258123434639360?s=20&t=rV8M-l...

[brucejoel99]

I bet if Xi Jinping were posting on this forum and making these same arguments he wouldn't be nearly as whiny, self-pitying, and weirdly pessimistic about China's status as a rising superpower.

Not to mention that, if Xi's anonymous hobby was Atlas of all things, then it's much more likely that he's hiding amongst the crowd & not invoking outlandish propaganda that's meant for purely domestic consumption or engaging in rhetorical saber-rattling that doesn't serve to benefit the Chinese government's foreign policy success, not just because of the anonymity that he'd presumably be seeking, but also because of the very fact that his role as paramount leader actually provides him with the freedom to anonymously express whatever beliefs he wants to express online if that's what he wants to do, in contrast to the lack of said freedom when it comes to his people... at least, when they're actually forced to be in the country & don't have the opportunity to take advantage of said freedom just to sh*t on it like a person we sadly know.

[lfromnj]

I bet if Xi Jinping were posting on this forum and making these same arguments he wouldn't be nearly as whiny, self-pitying, and weirdly pessimistic about China's status as a rising superpower.

Not to mention that, if Xi's anonymous hobby was Atlas of all things, then it's much more likely that he's hiding amongst the crowd & not invoking outlandish propaganda that's meant for purely domestic consumption or engaging in rhetorical saber-rattling that doesn't serve to benefit the Chinese government's foreign policy success, not just because of the anonymity that he'd presumably be seeking, but also because of the very fact that his role as paramount leader actually provides him with the freedom to anonymously express whatever beliefs he wants to express online if that's what he wants to do, in contrast to the lack of said freedom when it comes to his people... at least, when they're actually forced to be in the country & don't have the opportunity to take advantage of said freedom just to sh*t on it like a person we sadly know.

I highly doubt China is shutting down speech online over Ukraine.

[It’s so Joever]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1505262100922478599?s=20&t=gOjZXBd...

Wait where did they use it?

[WMS]

Let’s snip the quote trees a bit.

You mean condemning Russian invasion? That’s just everyone’s sane position. Even China doesn’t agree with it even if they won’t directly oppose Russia and will rather hide behind neutrality.

Actually, then 52 countries of the world are insane by your logic. They’re not exactly a pleasant lot for the most part:

A few statistics from comparing UNGAR ES-11/1 (condemning Russia) with the -4 to 100 Freedom Scale by Freedom House.

Median FH Scores, to avoid Mean/Average skewing:

No Votes: 3 out of 100

Abstain Votes: 30 out of 100

Absent Votes*: 20 out of 100 (gee who would they have voted for, you think?)
*Turns out Venezuela can’t vote in the UNGA because they haven’t paid their UN dues in two years…just Venezuela…

Yes Votes: 79 out of 100

bUt MuH bOtH sIdEs…yeah, piss off, Russia stans

One very different thing is supporting this articulation of full isolation of a country and realistically, you cannot deny there isn’t a major geographical divide shaping up. Forget China, there’s also:

- India is working for an alternative exchange way to go around western sanctions
- South Africa publicly saying the war is NATO’s fault
- Brazil joined the countries above in asking for Russia’s claim of US Biological labs to be investigated and wanting Russia partnership for its nuclear subs projects
- Saudi Arabia (!!!!) studying to make payments to Russia in Chinese coin. Even Israel, seen as western ally, behaved more like Iran in this issue lol
- Mexico, Argentina and others positioning against the international institutions being kidnapped to propel an isolation of Russia. And those all are places which condemned the invasion when it started, as you said.

It’s not geographic, it’s based mostly on power tier levels in the world mixed with the autocratic-democratic ideological divide. Second-tier powers want to weaken the first-tier power so they can do whatever they want to their neighbors. This appears to override considerations of democracy and autocracy because power corrupts and all that.*

China is the current second-tier primary rival to the U.S. That’s right compucomp, second-tier; China isn’t at the U.S. level at this time. Plus they’re all in favor of a world of autocracies.
India is another second-tier power, which has a long tradition of hardline anti-Americanism mostly rooted in the independence leaders choosing so on their own - while I disagree with Nixon’s 1971 policies it is a lie to say that is the cause of those attitudes. The rise of Hindutuva nationalism has increased the aggressiveness of India, while also increasing their authoritarianism.
South Africa is another second-tier power, and while the ruling ANC still has the hardline left tendencies from years before I have my doubts on how exactly that matches the popular will - that is a Hashemite question since he is an expert on South Africa.
Brazil, or Bolsonaro? Supporting Russia’s biolabs claim is characteristic of the extreme right and the extreme left. But Brazil is another second-tier power with all that entails, plus it is fair to say that Jair Bolsonaro, ah, has authoritarian tendencies?
Saudi Arabia is clearly moving in support of autocracy worldwide because gee, that’s what it is. The personal dislike between MBS and Biden contributes. But 1)the Saudis can’t actually follow through on that threat without great difficulty and 2)using Saudi Arabia as a point in favor of something is err unusual also 3)the breaking of the U.S.-Saudi relationship is something most people think is good.
Israel is being put in the spotlight on this one although if you think they’re going to pick Russia over the U.S. well that’s a lot of aid to give up for Russia. And I thought you supported the Palestinians?! Gloating about any Israeli opposition to Western sanctions seems a bit ideologically inconsistent.
Mexico, Argentina, etc hmm let’s see there sure is a lot of Russian money flowing around corrupting politicians all over the world and that is already evident in Mexico as indicated earlier in this very thread:

Mexico won't sanction Russia in order to maintain good relations

exico will not join the U.S. and several European countries that are imposing economic sanctions on the Russian government in response to the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador said Tuesday that his country will not place sanctions on Russia due to his desire to maintain "good relations with all governments in the world," according to Reuters.

The Mexican president also criticized what he considered to be censorship of Russian state-owned media, as Facebook, Twitter, Google, Reddit and YouTube have all taken steps in recent days to combat misinformation or propaganda regarding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, including halting advertising revenue from being distributed to several Russian state-owned outlets.

"We're not going to take any kind of economic reprisal because we want to have good relations with all the governments in the world, and we want to be able to talk with the parties in conflict," López Obrador said when asked about his stance on the sanctions from other countries.

"We do not consider that it corresponds to us, and we think that the best thing is to promote dialogue to achieve peace," he was quoted by CNN.

The announcement from López Obrador came just a day after he and the Mexican tourism minister said that Mexico would not follow the EU in blocking Russian airlines from landing at airports in the country, according to Mexico News Daily. Over the weekend, Tourism Minister Miguel Torruco also posted a widely criticized series of tweets showcasing various statistics about Russian tourism in Mexico and the money that has come into the country related to tourism from Russia.

A bit more to that story.

Also not an opinion unanimous across Mexico.

I wonder how much the corrupt leftist Kirchnerists in Argentina have? And also what popular opinion thinks about it? Country experts on the Forum would know that one. Let’s not forget how much Obrador and Trump got along either.

The “kidnapping of international institutions”? Say what? Which ones? Seems like they’re functioning as expected, unless you consider any actions against Russia to be evidence of ‘kidnapping’. The Western-aligned institutions are shockingly not in favor of anti-Western countries, especially ones violating every international principle and rule there is. I find it heartwarming how only the Western-aligned institutions have imploded Russia’s economy, even with the at times inconsistent enforcement of sanctions.

The only non-Anglo and non-European countries that are aligning are Japan and South Korea. You can’t talk about “international community united” without almost all of Asia, all of Africa and Latin America. It’s a divide being stimulated that simply isn’t good for anyone, if you don’t understand the possible consequences.

You forgot Taiwan. But umm let’s see that’s quite a claim of non-alignment. I have made no claims about the “international community united” although the weight of opinion is clearly on one side. As the UNGA vote indicates there was no hesitation in abstaining amongst the Russian and Chinese clients out there.

The international divide is and has been for decades been stimulated by the likes of Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, and so on and so forth. Or do you think all that Russian and Chinese and Saudi and etc. investment in the Developing World is being done on humanitarian impulses? Autocracy, Inc., on the move.

And since you like % so much…



This is Brazilians opinion on the matter btw. Even if most sympathize with Ukraine being invaded and disagree with the war, they still defend neutrality on the matter lol

And it’s a bipartisanship position as evidenced by the poll above. 91% of Bolsonaro voters agree with his neutrality, but also 70% of Lula voters lol. And this isn’t surprising position at all.

When agreeing with Bolsonaro voters is considered virtuous.

From the Brazilian thread the patterns match what I’ve observed in general: the more extreme one is the more they support Russia, either outright or indirectly.

Anyway, have fun screaming here in your bubble, because I’m not going to be like compcomp and argue with people whose sympathy is limited to specific locations. There was no coordinated pressure to isolate US for invading Iraq, there shouldn’t be one for Russia either. Everyone knows the reasons behind on WHY this is happening just in this case, people aren’t stupid.

My bubble? Jajaja jajaja jajaja jajaja! Oh sorry, my sympathy is for, you know, fellow humans and extends to the critters as well, regardless of their “specific location”. And you are still parroting the same intellectually dishonest whataboutism and accusations of bigotry you did before. Since your grasp of history is shaky at best, here are a few corrections: 1) there was an attempt to isolate the U.S. over Iraq, led by Jacques Chirac, Gerhard Schroeder and Vladimir Putin. It just kinda failed; 2) a democracy invading to topple a totalitarian regime that was violating U.N. sanctions, even with all the many flaws inherent in it, is not comparable to a totalitarian regime invading a democracy to annex parts of it and subjugate the rest; 3) there’s kind of a difference between how they conducted themselves as well.

Only those blind to what’s going on actually believe your tripe about the current crisis. That, or they enthusiastically support autocracy and brutality. Which is it for you, Red Fascist?

*Several of the democracies that voted to Abstain are of the “democracy is fine as long as the ruling party always wins”. If the ruling party’s position is threatened the authoritarianism comes out.

[AndyHogan14]

Interesting thread. Whenever this ends, unless Russia repents in the same way that Germany eventually did after the Second World War, the Ukrainian hate towards Russia will last generations.
https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1505265888563453959?s=20&t=u_0KwyStN12...

[Hindsight was 2020]

Interesting thread. Whenever this ends, unless Russia repents in the same way that Germany eventually did after the Second World War, the Ukrainian hate towards Russia will last generations.
https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1505265888563453959?s=20&t=u_0KwyStN12...

I came into the thread to post the same tweet lol

[Frodo]

Some Russians are breaking through Putin’s digital iron curtain — leading to fights with friends and family

[AndyHogan14]

Soooo...the Russians are planning on attacking western diplomats in Lviv.
https://twitter.com/kyivindependent/status/1505289250387943425?s=21

[brucejoel99]

I bet if Xi Jinping were posting on this forum and making these same arguments he wouldn't be nearly as whiny, self-pitying, and weirdly pessimistic about China's status as a rising superpower.

Not to mention that, if Xi's anonymous hobby was Atlas of all things, then it's much more likely that he's hiding amongst the crowd & not invoking outlandish propaganda that's meant for purely domestic consumption or engaging in rhetorical saber-rattling that doesn't serve to benefit the Chinese government's foreign policy success, not just because of the anonymity that he'd presumably be seeking, but also because of the very fact that his role as paramount leader actually provides him with the freedom to anonymously express whatever beliefs he wants to express online if that's what he wants to do, in contrast to the lack of said freedom when it comes to his people... at least, when they're actually forced to be in the country & don't have the opportunity to take advantage of said freedom just to sh*t on it like a person we sadly know.

I highly doubt China is shutting down speech online over Ukraine.

It's not about China shutting down online speech over Ukraine. It's about whether the Chinese people, like us, have the freedom to anonymously express whatever beliefs they wanna express online if that's what they wanna to do. What is every American's constitutional right - as well as compucomp's, by virtue of his residency here, in spite of his evident hatred of the very freedom he invokes to express said hatred - is held within China only by Xi & whomever else he likes.

[Cashew]

Mexico, Argentina, etc hmm let’s see there sure is a lot of Russian money flowing around corrupting politicians all over the world and that is already evident in Mexico as indicated earlier in this very thread:

Russian money is a tiny pittance compared to the soft power the west wields in business and finance. And that's without the west even trying, and when they do try there is the US dollar to provide more leverage. I expect there to be far more closeted pro Russia politicians self censoring to maintain good relationships with western institutions than than previously pro western corrupt politicians bribed by Russia's tiny economic influence. The way it looks to me there are plenty of countries doing just that, going through as many motions as needed to avoid negative media attention from the west without actually doing anything against Russia.

[Red Velvet]

It’s not geographic, it’s based mostly on power tier levels in the world mixed with the autocratic-democratic ideological divide. Second-tier powers want to weaken the first-tier power so they can do whatever they want to their neighbors. This appears to override considerations of democracy and autocracy because power corrupts and all that.*

Lol that’s the typical “bringing freedom and democracy to the savages” world police exceptionalism that it’s pointless to argue with. Not that different from Putin fabricating moral argument bs that validates HIS interventions with the “denazification” thing.

As if the West was democratic pinnacle to act like that, the main difference there is that corruption is sold as “entrepreneurship” and elections with two parties only are treated as example to others to follow. You’re not changing your mind and neither am I on this.

Regarding the Brazilian poll, that’s not the “Bolsonaro” or “Lula” view. Neutrality is a consensus. The “Nem-Nem” voters are people who will vote for other options and they’re 73% so… not an ideological thing at all. You can bet the Lula voter would be even higher than 70% if it wasn’t Bolsonaro pushing for neutrality.

Again, that doesn’t mean support for Russia at all (I think people sympathize with Ukraine), but show that people disagree with taking a position and not just buying the simplistic good vs evil narrative. NYT already reported on this geographic divide:

In some parts of the world, the war in Ukraine seems justified

And yes, your bubble, everyone should always realize they’re in one and their views are related to many different backgrounds and experiences.

But cool that you mention that attempts to isolate US for Iraq war failed while this one went unquestioned for a reason. Thanks for backing my point?