Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Middle-aged Europe]

Wut?


https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1505084631984611333

[Torie]

Russia suspends grain exports to central Asia, prices do what they do

The Russian government has announced that it intends to extend its ban on the export of grain and sugar to fellow members of a trading bloc until the end of August in a move that has sparked fear of food shortages around the region.

The Economic Development Ministry said on March 10 that the decision was motivated by the need to “ensure the country’s food security and to help protect the domestic market in the current climate.”

All the other member states of the Eurasian Economic Union, or EAEU, which comprise Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan, will be deprived of the opportunity to import wheat, rye, barley, and corn from Russia until that designated date. Officials in Moscow insist that Russia currently has stocks of grain well in excess of its needs, but that the temporary prohibition has been instituted in part to prevent the re-export of crops to third countries.

“EAEU countries have already bought the amounts they need, free of duty, over the current season,” the Economic Development Ministry said in its statement.

Kazakhstan may take a different view, however. Last year, Kazakhs increased their volume of grain purchases from Russia by 77 percent, or around 2.3 million tons, coming behind only Turkey and Egypt as the main global buyers of Russian grain. Industry insiders say the real volume may be even greater, as official Russian data does not account for transactions made in the gray economy.

Reading the name "Belarus" in the list of countries Russia cut loose startled me a bit.

[Storr]

Wut?


https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1505084631984611333

I love it! I doubt it's a coincidence he said they "had to" wear yellow.

""It became our turn to pick a colour," Mr Artemyev said when he was asked about the suits in a live-streamed press conference.

"We had accumulated a lot of yellow material so we needed to use it," he joked. "That's why we had to wear yellow.""

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60804949

[Storr]

Fun fact: Lukashenko is actually two years younger than Putin...but he certainly doesn't look it.

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1505158167751446529?s=20&t=LHnPLA...

[compucomp]

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1504892608660840450
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1504892944867856385

Seems like pretty standard stuff. It doesn't seem like the White House is signaling a major shift in Beijing's position, at least not based on this.

Beijing's position is a lameass "war is bad, but we won't say aloud that Russia is bad too" that probably won't change for quite a while.

Clearly Joe did not have any intention of bargaining to get China to move in his favor but instead tried to browbeat Xi into submission with "freedom and democracy" rhetoric and threatening sanctions. Thus the result is what we see, the Chinese position remains unchanged, we're keeping the option open to supply Russia, and the Americans are disappointed.

A lack of change in Beijing's position is not actually as disappointing to us dastardly foreign devils as you seem to think, since a day or two ago Blinken was implying that the concern was that China might start very overtly aiding Russia's increasingly incoherent war aims (whatever the hell those are), which is not currently happening. Sure, Blinken is an idiot, but he's also the Secretary of State and presumably had somebody's permission to stoke fears (or hopes, if one enjoys unprovoked mass slaughter as much as you keep claiming not to) of that.

the humanitarian and Ukrainian view,

Mask off. Not a clown but the whole circus. Saying the quiet part out loud. Whatever else people are saying these days about this sort of remark.

And we still might start, if the Americans provoke us further. It's clear we refused to rule it out. We're certainly not going to be deterred by American threats, if anything, threats make us more likely to supply Russia.

The coverage of the humanitarian aspect in Western media is heavily slanted in Ukraine's favor, just like every other aspect. Yes, there are civilians dying, and that's a tragedy. But it's a freaking land war between armies of hundreds of thousands, this is to be expected. There's a lot of coverage of Mariupol as some kind of atrocity, but apparently the media is  forgetting that this is how sieges have worked for the entirety of history? I'm pretty sure WW2 generals would fall out of their chairs laughing if you tried discussing with them about "humanitarian corridors." CNN, NYT, etc cover breathlessly bombed apartment buildings, but they overlook the fact that the latest count of civilian deaths is about 1.5K (edit, 850 per UN count from CNN just now) , and this is a minuscule number in comparison to the 15K or so dead combatants. Clearly an effort is being made to minimize civilian casualties, otherwise we would see WW2 strategies of level bombers destroying whole city blocks with napalm and heavy artillery brought up in large numbers to reduce surrounded cities. Not nearly this much effort was spent by CNN/NYT/etc to cover civilian deaths when the Americans invaded Afghanistan and particularly Iraq.

[Logical]

Fun fact: Lukashenko is actually two years younger than Putin...but he certainly doesn't look it.

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1505158167751446529?s=20&t=LHnPLAottHP1ydF24rhSiA

Putin appears to be hiding some kind of lameness but I doubt that he is gravely ill or dying.

[Storr]

Because this current war has many similarities to the Winter War of 1939-40, I decided to read more about it. This description of the Soviet diplomatic and media/propaganda campaign in the lead up to the war could easily be describing Russia's actions this year:

"It demonstrated the classic example of modern political-military aggression: the initial "reasonable" demands for bases and border rectifications, the doubtful border incidents, the whipping up of war fever among the people through the press and radio, the proclamation of the aggressive intent of the potential victim, all rising to a well-timed crescendo on the day of the surprise attack."

Hmmm...this seems familiar:

"After such a build-up the average Russian civilian or soldier could have little doubt that the Russian-Finnish conflict would be merely a 'local' war, and that within three days, or at most a week, Finland would be brought to her knees.  

On this note of anticipated success the Russian press concluded its campaign to bestir the Soviet people and prepare them for a war with Finland. They had presented a good excuse for securing control of Finland (to protect Leningrad) and had predicted that any war, given the disparity in
population and strength, would be very short. Unfortunately, they neglected to convince the Finns of these facts. That omission would create great difficulties later on."

More echoes from the past:

"What was more important [in leading the Kremlin to recognize the actual Finnish government instead of the Soviet puppet "Finnish Democratic Republic", and beginning the process which lead to peace negotiations], Moscow was receiving concrete information from London and Paris to the effect that the Allies were seriously considering coming to the aid of the Finns... Moscow began to realize that what was to have been a local war, lasting at most a week, was in danger of becoming a general European war against Russia."

What I've been reading is a 1968 PhD thesis analyzing Soviet Records (newspapers, official histories, etc.) of the Winter War.

https://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/19633

Edit. I'm pretty sure I've seen Russian media (definitely from pro-Russian twitter accounts) use an excuse along the lines of "only the corrupt corporate western media hyped up the idea of a quick victory in order to embarrass Russia!" similar to the excerpt below.

"For instance, by 23 December Russian press bosses came to the interesting conclusion that anyone who had expected a "Blitzkrieg" by the Red Army in Finland must have acted from desire to discredit the Soviet Union and her fighting forces."

[ꙮ]

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1504892608660840450
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1504892944867856385

Seems like pretty standard stuff. It doesn't seem like the White House is signaling a major shift in Beijing's position, at least not based on this.

Beijing's position is a lameass "war is bad, but we won't say aloud that Russia is bad too" that probably won't change for quite a while.

Clearly Joe did not have any intention of bargaining to get China to move in his favor but instead tried to browbeat Xi into submission with "freedom and democracy" rhetoric and threatening sanctions. Thus the result is what we see, the Chinese position remains unchanged, we're keeping the option open to supply Russia, and the Americans are disappointed.

A lack of change in Beijing's position is not actually as disappointing to us dastardly foreign devils as you seem to think, since a day or two ago Blinken was implying that the concern was that China might start very overtly aiding Russia's increasingly incoherent war aims (whatever the hell those are), which is not currently happening. Sure, Blinken is an idiot, but he's also the Secretary of State and presumably had somebody's permission to stoke fears (or hopes, if one enjoys unprovoked mass slaughter as much as you keep claiming not to) of that.

the humanitarian and Ukrainian view,

Mask off. Not a clown but the whole circus. Saying the quiet part out loud. Whatever else people are saying these days about this sort of remark.

And we still might start, if the Americans provoke us further. It's clear we refused to rule it out. We're certainly not going to be deterred by American threats, if anything, threats make us more likely to supply Russia.

The coverage of the humanitarian aspect in Western media is heavily slanted in Ukraine's favor, just like every other aspect. Yes, there are civilians dying, and that's a tragedy. But it's a freaking land war between armies of hundreds of thousands, this is to be expected. There's a lot of coverage of Mariupol as some kind of atrocity, but apparently the media is  forgetting that this is how sieges have worked for the entirety of history? I'm pretty sure WW2 generals would fall out of their chairs laughing if you tried discussing with them about "humanitarian corridors." CNN, NYT, etc cover breathlessly bombed apartment buildings, but they overlook the fact that the latest count of civilian deaths is about 1.5K (edit, 850 per UN count from CNN just now) , and this is a minuscule number in comparison to the 15K or so dead combatants. Clearly an effort is being made to minimize civilian casualties, otherwise we would see WW2 strategies of level bombers destroying whole city blocks with napalm and heavy artillery brought up in large numbers to reduce surrounded cities. Not nearly this much effort was spent by CNN/NYT/etc to cover civilian deaths when the Americans invaded Afghanistan and particularly Iraq.

Ratio + L + cope + seethe

[Sir Mohamed]

Fun fact: Lukashenko is actually two years younger than Putin...but he certainly doesn't look it.

https://twitter.com/joncoopertweets/status/1505158167751446529?s=20&t=LHnPLA...

Not sure either is true.

That said, Putin actually looks healthy and sporty considering his age. As far as I know, he's doing a lot of physical exercise and is afraid of getting sick. Also explains why he isolated himself over the COVID-pandemic and is still very much concerned of catching the virus.

[compucomp]

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1504892608660840450
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1504892944867856385

Seems like pretty standard stuff. It doesn't seem like the White House is signaling a major shift in Beijing's position, at least not based on this.

Beijing's position is a lameass "war is bad, but we won't say aloud that Russia is bad too" that probably won't change for quite a while.

Clearly Joe did not have any intention of bargaining to get China to move in his favor but instead tried to browbeat Xi into submission with "freedom and democracy" rhetoric and threatening sanctions. Thus the result is what we see, the Chinese position remains unchanged, we're keeping the option open to supply Russia, and the Americans are disappointed.

A lack of change in Beijing's position is not actually as disappointing to us dastardly foreign devils as you seem to think, since a day or two ago Blinken was implying that the concern was that China might start very overtly aiding Russia's increasingly incoherent war aims (whatever the hell those are), which is not currently happening. Sure, Blinken is an idiot, but he's also the Secretary of State and presumably had somebody's permission to stoke fears (or hopes, if one enjoys unprovoked mass slaughter as much as you keep claiming not to) of that.

the humanitarian and Ukrainian view,

Mask off. Not a clown but the whole circus. Saying the quiet part out loud. Whatever else people are saying these days about this sort of remark.

And we still might start, if the Americans provoke us further. It's clear we refused to rule it out. We're certainly not going to be deterred by American threats, if anything, threats make us more likely to supply Russia.

The coverage of the humanitarian aspect in Western media is heavily slanted in Ukraine's favor, just like every other aspect. Yes, there are civilians dying, and that's a tragedy. But it's a freaking land war between armies of hundreds of thousands, this is to be expected. There's a lot of coverage of Mariupol as some kind of atrocity, but apparently the media is  forgetting that this is how sieges have worked for the entirety of history? I'm pretty sure WW2 generals would fall out of their chairs laughing if you tried discussing with them about "humanitarian corridors." CNN, NYT, etc cover breathlessly bombed apartment buildings, but they overlook the fact that the latest count of civilian deaths is about 1.5K (edit, 850 per UN count from CNN just now) , and this is a minuscule number in comparison to the 15K or so dead combatants. Clearly an effort is being made to minimize civilian casualties, otherwise we would see WW2 strategies of level bombers destroying whole city blocks with napalm and heavy artillery brought up in large numbers to reduce surrounded cities. Not nearly this much effort was spent by CNN/NYT/etc to cover civilian deaths when the Americans invaded Afghanistan and particularly Iraq.

Ratio + L + cope + seethe

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

[Boobs]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

[ꙮ]

You get low effort responses because that’s all you deserve. You are, by your own admission, a shill with no capacity for thought beyond parroting the CCP party line. What could possibly be gained through “high effort” discussion with you?

[compucomp]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

[Middle-aged Europe]

The coverage of the humanitarian aspect in Western media is heavily slanted in Ukraine's favor, just like every other aspect. Yes, there are civilians dying, and that's a tragedy. But it's a freaking land war between armies of hundreds of thousands, this is to be expected. There's a lot of coverage of Mariupol as some kind of atrocity, but apparently the media is  forgetting that this is how sieges have worked for the entirety of history? I'm pretty sure WW2 generals would fall out of their chairs laughing if you tried discussing with them about "humanitarian corridors." CNN, NYT, etc cover breathlessly bombed apartment buildings, but they overlook the fact that the latest count of civilian deaths is about 1.5K (edit, 850 per UN count from CNN just now) , and this is a minuscule number in comparison to the 15K or so dead combatants.

The civilian death count is estimated to be considerably higher than just 800, because the UN number is only the confirmed deaths.

But that's besides the point, really. Because the real question is how many would have died if Putin hadn't decide to invade Ukraine? That's right.... ZERO. You make it sound like the invasion of Ukraine was some kind of inevitable natural disaster negating the fact that Vladimir Putin still possesses something like a free will. He made a CHOICE. And due to this choice people die.

[Red Velvet]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Why do you argue so much with the westerners here? lol

There’s never going to be any type productive discussion because it’s a direct conflict of interests, different sides and backgrounds. It’s better to talk about this between people closer, although I can understand the importance of establishing a clear international stance that makes clear the position to others.

Their position here is against the interests of developing countries in general and yours is against the West. There’s never going to be a common ground because each has the other as an enemy/adversary. That’s how they see you and that’s how you see them as well, let’s be real.

Now, regarding what will come out of this war and who will be prejudiced more on the long term, no one knows yet. What it has done is to divide more clearly the line between West vs Developing World and the consequences of that are still to be seen in the years to come.

[John Dule]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

The CCP has bought the loyalty of a majority (but not an overwhelming majority) of its citizens with economic growth. When growth slows, or Xi dies and causes a chaotic succession that spooks investors, I'll be interested to see if the Chinese people continue to show loyalty to a regime that has failed to keep its side of the bargain. I have nothing but love and respect for the people of China, and I have no doubt that when the time comes they will not hesitate to exact merciless retribution against a government that has lost its mandate (as they have done so many times in the past).

[It’s so Joever]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Speaking of non sequiturs, lol.

Anyway, clearly the biggest L was taken by your parents, whose only child, I presume, ended up being, well, you.

LMAO, they are quite proud that despite being constantly exposed to Western propaganda,  I remain loyal to my people and my country. This is after all a common Western mistake; you love to think that Chinese people are all brainwashed by their government and would overthrow it if they were just informed, does it kill you to know that most Chinese people genuinely support the government and the party, especially when the USA is held up as an alternative?

The CCP has bought the loyalty of a majority (but not an overwhelming majority) of its citizens with economic growth. When growth slows, or Xi dies and causes a chaotic succession that spooks investors, I'll be interested to see if the Chinese people continue to show loyalty to a regime that has failed to keep its side of the bargain. I have nothing but love and respect for the people of China, and I have no doubt that when the time comes they will not hesitate to exact merciless retribution against a government that has lost its mandate (as they have done so many times in the past).

Thank you, finally someone who understands the actual situation in China.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1504892608660840450
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1504892944867856385

Seems like pretty standard stuff. It doesn't seem like the White House is signaling a major shift in Beijing's position, at least not based on this.

Beijing's position is a lameass "war is bad, but we won't say aloud that Russia is bad too" that probably won't change for quite a while.

Clearly Joe did not have any intention of bargaining to get China to move in his favor but instead tried to browbeat Xi into submission with "freedom and democracy" rhetoric and threatening sanctions. Thus the result is what we see, the Chinese position remains unchanged, we're keeping the option open to supply Russia, and the Americans are disappointed.

A lack of change in Beijing's position is not actually as disappointing to us dastardly foreign devils as you seem to think, since a day or two ago Blinken was implying that the concern was that China might start very overtly aiding Russia's increasingly incoherent war aims (whatever the hell those are), which is not currently happening. Sure, Blinken is an idiot, but he's also the Secretary of State and presumably had somebody's permission to stoke fears (or hopes, if one enjoys unprovoked mass slaughter as much as you keep claiming not to) of that.

the humanitarian and Ukrainian view,

Mask off. Not a clown but the whole circus. Saying the quiet part out loud. Whatever else people are saying these days about this sort of remark.

And we still might start, if the Americans provoke us further. It's clear we refused to rule it out. We're certainly not going to be deterred by American threats, if anything, threats make us more likely to supply Russia.

Please own America so much by pissing of all of Europe. We are owned so much by Germany finally spending its 2% . Please own us further .

Even from the most Machiavellian perspective you can stop shilling for Russia you know? There's no reason to hurt relatively lukewarm European China relations when Chinese Russia relations are already high enough.

[ugabug]

https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1505179345643520000

[Middle-aged Europe]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Why do you argue so much with the westerners here? lol

There’s never going to be any type productive discussion because it’s a direct conflict of interests, different sides and backgrounds. It’s better to talk about this between people closer, although I can understand the importance of establishing a clear international stance that makes clear the position to others.

Their position here is against the interests of developing countries in general and yours is against the West. There’s never going to be a common ground because each has the other as an enemy/adversary. That’s how they see you and that’s how you see them as well, let’s be real.

Now, regarding what will come out of this war and who will be prejudiced more on the long term, no one knows yet. What it has done is to divide more clearly the line between West vs Developing World and the consequences of that are still to be seen in the years to come.

That's just a load of horsesh**t and you know it.

Do you want to know what my "interests" are?? Every time I happen to came by or through Berlin Central Station during the last couple of weeks, I stand a good chance of seeing a couple of dozen Ukrainian refugees. My "interest", as you so nonchalantly call it, is that these people don't have to suffer and don't have to flee their home and their children don't have to be traumatized. Now, am I to understand your post in the manner that it is in the "interest of the developing countries" that these people are suffering?

[WMS]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Why do you argue so much with the westerners here? lol

There’s never going to be any type productive discussion because it’s a direct conflict of interests, different sides and backgrounds. It’s better to talk about this between people closer, although I can understand the importance of establishing a clear international stance that makes clear the position to others.

Their position here is against the interests of developing countries in general and yours is against the West. There’s never going to be a common ground because each has the other as an enemy/adversary. That’s how they see you and that’s how you see them as well, let’s be real.

Now, regarding what will come out of this war and who will be prejudiced more on the long term, no one knows yet. What it has done is to divide more clearly the line between West vs Developing World and the consequences of that are still to be seen in the years to come.

Hmm…seems more like a division within the Developing World.

Although not much of a division within Latin America and the Caribbean:

Much to unpack from the UNGA vote, but…

Latin America and the Caribbean:
Yes: 28
Antigua & Barbuda, Argentina, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica,
Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Saint Kitts-Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent & the Grenadines, Suriname, Trinidad & Tobago, Uruguay.

Abstain or Cowards who didn’t vote at all to hide their Abstain: 5
Bolivia (finally made up their damn minds), Cuba, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Venezuela.

85% versus 15%.

I believe there’s a Latin American and the Caribbean consensus on this.

But do go on about the West. Fascists of a feather flock together and all that.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Btw, this must be peak Boris Johnson


https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1505205349317550083

[Red Velvet]

Although not much of a division within Latin America and the Caribbean:

But do go on about the West. Fascists of a feather flock together and all that.

You mean condemning Russian invasion? That’s just everyone’s sane position. Even China doesn’t agree with it even if they won’t directly oppose Russia and will rather hide behind neutrality.

One very different thing is supporting this articulation of full isolation of a country and realistically, you cannot deny there isn’t a major geographical divide shaping up. Forget China, there’s also:

- India is working for an alternative exchange way to go around western sanctions
- South Africa publicly saying the war is NATO’s fault
- Brazil joined the countries above in asking for Russia’s claim of US Biological labs to be investigated and wanting Russia partnership for its nuclear subs projects
- Saudi Arabia (!!!!) studying to make payments to Russia in Chinese coin. Even Israel, seen as western ally, behaved more like Iran in this issue lol
- Mexico, Argentina and others positioning against the international institutions being kidnapped to propel an isolation of Russia. And those all are places which condemned the invasion when it started, as you said.

The only non-Anglo and non-European countries that are aligning are Japan and South Korea. You can’t talk about “international community united” without almost all of Asia, all of Africa and Latin America. It’s a divide being stimulated that simply isn’t good for anyone, if you don’t understand the possible consequences.

[Storr]

Note that these appear to be Ukrainian Army engineers, not Azov. I haven't seen Azov members wearing blue arm bands.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1505233928872935433?s=20&t=oK-EAEnDq_m36d...

[Red Velvet]

Back to the low effort non sequitur responses again? Who takes the W or L is still to be decided; I will say that if the US and China end up in a trade war, the US will suffer historic inflation and supply shortages among other economic consequences and the Democrats will be utterly destroyed in November.

Why do you argue so much with the westerners here? lol

There’s never going to be any type productive discussion because it’s a direct conflict of interests, different sides and backgrounds. It’s better to talk about this between people closer, although I can understand the importance of establishing a clear international stance that makes clear the position to others.

Their position here is against the interests of developing countries in general and yours is against the West. There’s never going to be a common ground because each has the other as an enemy/adversary. That’s how they see you and that’s how you see them as well, let’s be real.

Now, regarding what will come out of this war and who will be prejudiced more on the long term, no one knows yet. What it has done is to divide more clearly the line between West vs Developing World and the consequences of that are still to be seen in the years to come.

Hmm…seems more like a division within the Developing World.

Although not much of a division within Latin America and the Caribbean:

Much to unpack from the UNGA vote, but…

Latin America and the Caribbean:
Yes: 28
Antigua & Barbuda, Argentina, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica,
Dominica, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Grenada, Guatemala, Guyana, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Saint Kitts-Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent & the Grenadines, Suriname, Trinidad & Tobago, Uruguay.

Abstain or Cowards who didn’t vote at all to hide their Abstain: 5
Bolivia (finally made up their damn minds), Cuba, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Venezuela.

85% versus 15%.

I believe there’s a Latin American and the Caribbean consensus on this.

But do go on about the West. Fascists of a feather flock together and all that.

And since you like % so much…



This is Brazilians opinion on the matter btw. Even if most sympathize with Ukraine being invaded and disagree with the war, they still defend neutrality on the matter lol

And it’s a bipartisanship position as evidenced by the poll above. 91% of Bolsonaro voters agree with his neutrality, but also 70% of Lula voters lol. And this isn’t surprising position at all.

Anyway, have fun screaming here in your bubble, because I’m not going to be like compcomp and argue with people whose sympathy is limited to specific locations. There was no coordinated pressure to isolate US for invading Iraq, there shouldn’t be one for Russia either. Everyone knows the reasons behind on WHY this is happening just in this case, people aren’t stupid.