Is it morally okay for a white person to say the n-word while singing a song?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Write-in: I don't care because I'll never have to worry about this happening with me because I don't listen to any music with it in it.

[Alben Barkley]

I don’t think it’s MORALLY wrong, but god help you if you’re caught on camera doing it. Like that one poor teenage girl who ended up losing her college offers over it.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Depends who it is and how they say it. It's like food with a good chef. It has a context, just not one where white people are involved.

My Nigga

https://youtu.be/MSrTnWDTdwI

Hot Nigga

https://youtu.be/vJwKKKd2ZYE

[LBJer]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

While I agree that it's not automatically immoral for a white person to use the word--like you say, it depends on the context--given that more than a third of voters have voted "no" so far, I wouldn't call that position an "abnormal" opinion on Atlas.  Just because it's not the majority doesn't make it abnormal.  And "abnormal" carries a connotation not just of being unusual (an opinion held by more than a third of people is hardly an unusual viewpoint) but of also being bad in some way.  Even if one disagrees with the "no" option, I certainly wouldn't call it bad in the sense that, for example, saying that the U.S. is a "white man's country" is bad. 

[DaleCooper]

I don’t think it’s MORALLY wrong, but god help you if you’re caught on camera doing it. Like that one poor teenage girl who ended up losing her college offers over it.

I think it's possible that America will start associating the n-word more with arbitrary internet cancellations than they do with actual bigotry and racism. Same thing with what we now have to call "the F slur" and the many other letter-words that Americans have ascribed supernatural powers to. Stripping away this context and saying it's morally wrong to say a word no matter what the intent or situation is will just hurt marginalized people more than anyone because people forget why the word was even hurtful in the first place. If you ask most white people why they shouldn't say the n word (and they were answering honestly), they'd probably say they'd never say it because they don't want a white lady to write an opinion column about how evil they are and get them fired. This is not healthy and it's just an unreasonable way to grapple with language.

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

While I agree that it's not automatically immoral for a white person to use the word--like you say, it depends on the context--given that more than a third of voters have voted "no" so far, I wouldn't call that position an "abnormal" opinion on Atlas.  Just because it's not the majority doesn't make it abnormal.  And "abnormal" carries a connotation not just of being unusual (an opinion held by more than a third of people is hardly an unusual viewpoint) but of also being bad in some way.  Even if one disagrees with the "no" option, I certainly wouldn't call it bad in the sense that, for example, saying that the U.S. is a "white man's country" is bad. 

I disagree that abnormal means inherently bad, but anyway the only reason I was using the word abnormal is because the person I was responding to used it. But you also have to remember that Atlas is a very left-leaning forum. I wouldn't know where to begin when unskewing an Atlas poll, but I'd wager that if only 35% of people here believe it then it must be really fringe amongst the general public.

[LBJer]

I don’t think it’s MORALLY wrong, but god help you if you’re caught on camera doing it. Like that one poor teenage girl who ended up losing her college offers over it.

I think it's possible that America will start associating the n-word more with arbitrary internet cancellations than they do with actual bigotry and racism. Same thing with what we now have to call "the F slur" and the many other letter-words that Americans have ascribed supernatural powers to. Stripping away this context and saying it's morally wrong to say a word no matter what the intent or situation is will just hurt marginalized people more than anyone because people forget why the word was even hurtful in the first place. If you ask most white people why they shouldn't say the n word (and they were answering honestly), they'd probably say they'd never say it because they don't want a white lady to write an opinion column about how evil they are and get them fired. This is not healthy and it's just an unreasonable way to grapple with language.

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

While I agree that it's not automatically immoral for a white person to use the word--like you say, it depends on the context--given that more than a third of voters have voted "no" so far, I wouldn't call that position an "abnormal" opinion on Atlas.  Just because it's not the majority doesn't make it abnormal.  And "abnormal" carries a connotation not just of being unusual (an opinion held by more than a third of people is hardly an unusual viewpoint) but of also being bad in some way.  Even if one disagrees with the "no" option, I certainly wouldn't call it bad in the sense that, for example, saying that the U.S. is a "white man's country" is bad. 

I disagree that abnormal means inherently bad, but anyway the only reason I was using the word abnormal is because the person I was responding to used it. But you also have to remember that Atlas is a very left-leaning forum. I wouldn't know where to begin when unskewing an Atlas poll, but I'd wager that if only 35% of people here believe it then it must be really fringe amongst the general public.

While Atlas is certainly more left-leaning in general than people as a whole, that's not always reflected in the polls on specific issues.  In a poll a while back about reparations for slavery, 79% voted no, 21% voted yes.  That's at least as anti-reparations as polls of the U.S. public on the issue.  Of course, an Atlas poll doesn't necessarily reflect the views of Atlas members as a whole--unlike a regular public opinion poll, the respondents are only those who feel strongly enough to vote on the issue at hand, and sometimes people with a particular point of view may be disproportionately motivated to vote. 

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

If John Q. Public is singing/rapping along to a song with the word in it, yes.

If a white musician puts out a song with the word in it, no.

[7,052,770]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

I did have a middle school English teacher tell us we should say the word when reading quotes from a book we were reading that took place in the Jim Crow era.  I'm wouldn't be comfortable saying that today even in that context, but I think there should at least be nuance for things like that.

Now, I personally would not say any curse word, even when quoting something or singing a song.  Not even something like the f-word, let alone the n-word.

[DaleCooper]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

People don't like to be treated like children and that's what you're doing when you give people a list of words they're never allowed to say even in a reasonable context. That's why I also brought up the "F slur" and now there's the R word, the C word, the T word, and probably a few others. It's getting to the point where you can't even always tell what word they're trying to reference, and it's just awkward. Assigning letters to bad words is what children do, and forcing adults to act like children is not healthy for society.

[7,052,770]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

People don't like to be treated like children and that's what you're doing when you give people a list of words they're never allowed to say even in a reasonable context. That's why I also brought up the "F slur" and now there's the R word, the C word, the T word, and probably a few others. It's getting to the point where you can't even always tell what word they're trying to reference, and it's just awkward. Assigning letters to bad words is what children do, and forcing adults to act like children is not healthy for society.

The "N-word" isn't the same as retarded or even c*nt (the Atlas software censored that, not me), and I think you know that.

Ironically, it was South Park who said it best, clearly far from a liberal/SJW show -- white people are just inherently incapable of ever understanding what it's like for a black person to hear the "N-word" and should just accept that fact and move on.

[DaleCooper]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

People don't like to be treated like children and that's what you're doing when you give people a list of words they're never allowed to say even in a reasonable context. That's why I also brought up the "F slur" and now there's the R word, the C word, the T word, and probably a few others. It's getting to the point where you can't even always tell what word they're trying to reference, and it's just awkward. Assigning letters to bad words is what children do, and forcing adults to act like children is not healthy for society.

The "N-word" isn't the same as retarded or even c*nt (the Atlas software censored that, not me), and I think you know that.

Ironically, it was South Park who said it best, clearly far from a liberal/SJW show -- white people are just inherently incapable of ever understanding what it's like for a black person to be called the "N-word" and should just accept that fact and move on.

Who said anything about calling anyone the N-word?

[7,052,770]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

People don't like to be treated like children and that's what you're doing when you give people a list of words they're never allowed to say even in a reasonable context. That's why I also brought up the "F slur" and now there's the R word, the C word, the T word, and probably a few others. It's getting to the point where you can't even always tell what word they're trying to reference, and it's just awkward. Assigning letters to bad words is what children do, and forcing adults to act like children is not healthy for society.

The "N-word" isn't the same as retarded or even c*nt (the Atlas software censored that, not me), and I think you know that.

Ironically, it was South Park who said it best, clearly far from a liberal/SJW show -- white people are just inherently incapable of ever understanding what it's like for a black person to be called the "N-word" and should just accept that fact and move on.

Who said anything about calling anyone the N-word?

That was an miswording on my part. I'm referring to using the word at all, as was the South Park classic:

Stan: "Token, I get it now. I don't get it. I've been trying to say that I understand how you feel, but, I'll never understand. I'll never really get how it feels for a black person to have somebody use the N word. I don't get it."
Token: "Now you get it, Stan."

[DaleCooper]

No (...abnormal?? Seriously, Atlas?)

It's not just an abnormal opinion on Atlas. Most people don't understand the no-nuance-allowed attitude that Americans have to this and other slurs. I bet that if you ask a representative sample of the United States if it's okay to say the n-word in a non-insulting context like quoting a song, the vast majority will tell you it's not immoral. The idea that it is immoral to utter a word regardless of context is actually pretty hilarious and even a bit disturbing when you think about it.

Nuance is lost on people, I agree. While in general the idea that a word can always be offensive no matter what seems ridiculous, in the particular case of the "n-word" the historical context is so horrendous that it's never acceptable for a white person to use it, with the exception of telling a child who's never heard it what it means and why it can't ever be said.

People don't like to be treated like children and that's what you're doing when you give people a list of words they're never allowed to say even in a reasonable context. That's why I also brought up the "F slur" and now there's the R word, the C word, the T word, and probably a few others. It's getting to the point where you can't even always tell what word they're trying to reference, and it's just awkward. Assigning letters to bad words is what children do, and forcing adults to act like children is not healthy for society.

The "N-word" isn't the same as retarded or even c*nt (the Atlas software censored that, not me), and I think you know that.

Ironically, it was South Park who said it best, clearly far from a liberal/SJW show -- white people are just inherently incapable of ever understanding what it's like for a black person to be called the "N-word" and should just accept that fact and move on.

Who said anything about calling anyone the N-word?

That was an miswording on my part. I'm referring to using the word at all, as was the South Park classic:

Stan: "Token, I get it now. I don't get it. I've been trying to say that I understand how you feel, but, I'll never understand. I'll never really get how it feels for a black person to have somebody use the N word. I don't get it."
Token: "Now you get it, Stan."

I don't watch South Park. And I also consider those other slurs to be less offensive than the n word, but by the way certain people on the left act, you wouldn't know it. I've encountered plenty of people that have had meltdowns over the "f slur" or "r word" even if used in a reasonable context. What can I say? I have very little interest in this issue, but I don't think Americans have a healthy relationship with words these days. I don't think we should act like children about it, and I think it's childish to say it's "immoral" to use a word even in the context of singing a song. It's the song part of this discussion that I think I have the most issue with. I'm sympathetic to people who say the word is the most horrible word in human history, but if that's the case then we shouldn't be using it in multi-billion dollar industries and mass marketing it to young audiences.

[John Dule]

[KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸]

I am not going to pretend to be an authority on when it is and isn't acceptable to say that word, and honestly, a giant chunk of people in this thread should stop pretending they're authorities on it, too.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Of course BLUE COLLAR MR Alpha Dog Justin Timberlake and 8 mile MR Marshall Mathers can and John Cena was a Rapper too

Of course not Heavy Metal, Rock or Country singers

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

If John Q. Public is singing/rapping along to a song with the word in it, yes.

If a white musician puts out a song with the word in it, no.

Marshall Mathers can put out a so g and so can Timberlake out N word in it and we won't mind

[Leroy McPherson fan]

[dead0man]

Write-in: I don't care because I'll never have to worry about this happening with me because I don't listen to any music with it in it.

Holiday in Cambodia?

[If my soul was made of stone]

Write-in: I don't care because I'll never have to worry about this happening with me because I don't listen to any music with it in it.

Holiday in Cambodia?

I find it hard to believe that BRTD has never heard "Romeo's Distress" by Christian Death either.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Write-in: I don't care because I'll never have to worry about this happening with me because I don't listen to any music with it in it.

Holiday in Cambodia?

The one exception. Which I kind of forgot about because I only remember the chorus of that off hand and the "Pol...Pot" part.

Write-in: I don't care because I'll never have to worry about this happening with me because I don't listen to any music with it in it.

Holiday in Cambodia?

I find it hard to believe that BRTD has never heard "Romeo's Distress" by Christian Death either.

No I actually haven't...and what the hell this sounds like The Cure or something. Nothing like what I listen to. Also the band name alone sucks (more due to being try-hard edgelordy than anything else.)

[Hope For A New Era]

morally okay yes, since it's not being used in a derogatory way and they're "quoting someone else" rather than "saying it themselves," but it seems society has decided otherwise and I'm just not really interested in fighting it. It's just not something worth making a big deal about.

[Pro-Israel, anti-Bibi]

If John Q. Public is singing/rapping along to a song with the word in it, yes.

If a white musician puts out a song with the word in it, no.

Marshall Mathers can put out a so g and so can Timberlake out N word in it and we won't mind

Marshall Mathers maybe, but what context would Justin Timberlake have to drop the N bomb in a song? He mostly sings about sex and doing his hair.

[dead0man]

Since The Cure has been brought up, and we're talking about songs white people may or may not want to sing a long to, I give you the catchy Cure song, Killing an Arab.