Has Marijuana Become too Accepted in the West ?

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

While it's clear that Weed isn't the instant addivcitive hard-drug that it was hyped to be, i've noticed a disturbing trend where people seem to treat it as completley harmless despite it's well associated link with schizophrenia with an almost complete refusal by many to consider the harmeful effects of it.

Proponets of Marijuana have routinley overstated the benefits of the drug and in policy terms often overhyped how much tax revenue it generates, legalization in Canada has only generated a fraction of the revenue that was expected with much of the market still in the hands of criminal gangs. Furthmore in places like colorado it has created a large well funded lobby for an addictive drug with negative health effects.

Is creating another tobacco industry really something people want ?

[CumbrianLefty]

Its no more harmful than tobacco or even alcohol, case closed.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Its no more harmful than tobacco or even alcohol, case closed.

Those are quite harmful hasn't legalization simply expanded the amount of people doing one of these. (you can say people were doing even when it's illegal but it's clear more people are doing it now that it's been legalized).

[CumbrianLefty]

Its no more harmful than tobacco or even alcohol, case closed.

Those are quite harmful hasn't legalization simply expanded the amount of people doing one of these. (you can say people were doing even when it's illegal but it's clear more people are doing it now that it's been legalized).

Point is that there is a clear inconsistency.

Which can be dealt with in two basic ways - either make access to alcohol/tobacco more restrictive (up to and including prohibition) or decriminalise/legalise "soft" drugs at least.

I know which one I prefer, and its also where most of the world is (gradually) going.

[parochial boy]

I dare the downsides of criminalising and penalising it far outweigh the upsides of legalising and regulating it. In so far the organised crime, violence, social exclusion and all the rest have generally had worse consequences than the health effects.

I mean, yes, it is bad for you - and the arguments otherwise are mostly disingenuous - but as has been mentioned, it is no worse than alcohol and it is perfectly possible to both consume cannabis and drink in moderation without it having long term health or social effects. And frankly, I'd rather live in a world we're we can recreationally do things that are potentially harmful or dangerous than in one where anything potentially harmful is removed from us as an option.

[Alcibiades]

I think the best solution to dealing with the potential issues raised in the OP is to treat cannabis, when it is legalised, much like we treat tobacco now (not identically obviously: probably less harshly than tobacco in terms of public health measures, but more so in terms of public consumption).

[beaver2.0]

Sort of.  This might be a trend that sorts itself out but in college I'd see more than a few people that relied on marijuana to focus but swore up and down that it was not addictive.  I support having it legalized, but people really do need to realize that it is like any drug and should be used only in moderation.

[Horus]

Its no more harmful than tobacco or even alcohol, case closed.

Far less harmful if I say so myself. I'd be perfectly happy with an all out ban on tobacco and far more limits on alcohol sales but weed just isn't bothersome or deadly. If anything access to it and certain psychedelics should be expanded.

[sting in the rafters]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted? The judicial system, financial institutions, and the prospective employers are all ruining people's lives for chiefing to this day. For example, dentist literally told me she can't say for certain how getting fried impacts my teeth aside from it causing dry mouth (which is a byproduct of smoking/inhaling any non-heated gas and not unique to THC in of itself).


And sure, it can cause schizophrenia if you're genetically predisposed to it and that's a risk factor one needs to be mindful of. Frankly I find it to be a much more acceptable one than the other common societal vices such as drinking, processed foods, gambling, etc. Smoking weed doesn't ruin your life unless you let it.

The fact there are jurisdictions where you can buy all the firearms your heart desires yet a cop finding even a one-hitter's worth of bud can f--- your life tells you all you need to know about the institutional acceptance of weed in this country.

I'd see more than a few people that relied on marijuana to focus but swore up and down that it was not addictive.

Their first problem was using bud to focus lol. But in all seriousness you can develop a dependency on it.  If you're going to work or class baked then yeah you have a problem (except if it's a bottom-of-the-barrel unskilled service job like fast food or movie theater staff, in which case it makes your shift 100x more entertaining).


The main difference I would say is any adverse effects from quitting tend to resolve quickly, it's not like nicotine or alcohol or benzos where you go through phases. Whenever I stop for drug testing or just take a t-break I can't sleep well/get agitated the first few nights but withdrawal symptoms are gone within a week. Which I mean try not going online at all nor eating junk food for a week and you'll probably feel the same way. It's about the reward system in your brain and discipline more than anything else.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted? The judicial system, financial institutions, and the prospective employers are all ruining people's lives for chiefing to this day. For example, dentist literally told me she can't say for certain how getting fried impacts my teeth aside from it causing dry mouth (which is a byproduct of smoking/inhaling any non-heated gas and not unique to THC in of itself).


And sure, it can cause schizophrenia if you're genetically predisposed to it and that's a risk factor one needs to be mindful of. Frankly I find it to be a much more acceptable one than the other common societal vices such as drinking, processed foods, gambling, etc. Smoking weed doesn't ruin your life unless you let it.

The fact there are jurisdictions where you can buy all the firearms your heart desires yet a cop finding even a one-hitter's worth of bud can f--- your life tells you all you need to know about the institutional acceptance of weed in this country.

I'd see more than a few people that relied on marijuana to focus but swore up and down that it was not addictive.

Their first problem was using bud to focus lol. But in all seriousness you can develop a dependency on it.  If you're going to work or class baked then yeah you have a problem (except if it's a bottom-of-the-barrel unskilled service job like fast food or movie theater staff, in which case it makes your shift 100x more entertaining).


The main difference I would say is any adverse effects from quitting tend to resolve quickly, it's not like nicotine or alcohol or benzos where you go through phases. Whenever I stop for drug testing or just take a t-break I can't sleep well/get agitated the first few nights but withdrawal symptoms are gone within a week. Which I mean try not going online at all nor eating junk food for a week and you'll probably feel the same way. It's about the reward system in your brain and discipline more than anything else.

I think the above reply illustrated what I find very difficult to accept about weed legalization, there are almost no argument that attempt to justify it on it's own. It's all a bunch of whataboutism about how this or that other legal thing is more harmful and attempts to write off the negative effects of it's usage rather than try to make a consistent argument about why another vice should be accepted into society.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

I dare the downsides of criminalising and penalising it far outweigh the upsides of legalising and regulating it. In so far the organised crime, violence, social exclusion and all the rest have generally had worse consequences than the health effects.

I mean, yes, it is bad for you - and the arguments otherwise are mostly disingenuous - but as has been mentioned, it is no worse than alcohol and it is perfectly possible to both consume cannabis and drink in moderation without it having long term health or social effects. And frankly, I'd rather live in a world we're we can recreationally do things that are potentially harmful or dangerous than in one where anything potentially harmful is removed from us as an option.

Decriminalisation and legalisation are 2 different policies, I find arguments that criminalisation of marrijua usage  is useless and socialy detrimental very convincing and do think that it is a good policy. I am completely opposed to Singapore's treatment of weed as a hard drug and it's execution of weed smugglers.I don't really find the argument that the best solution is to create a legal industry and accept it as a normal habit in society convincing.

[parochial boy]

I dare the downsides of criminalising and penalising it far outweigh the upsides of legalising and regulating it. In so far the organised crime, violence, social exclusion and all the rest have generally had worse consequences than the health effects.

I mean, yes, it is bad for you - and the arguments otherwise are mostly disingenuous - but as has been mentioned, it is no worse than alcohol and it is perfectly possible to both consume cannabis and drink in moderation without it having long term health or social effects. And frankly, I'd rather live in a world we're we can recreationally do things that are potentially harmful or dangerous than in one where anything potentially harmful is removed from us as an option.

Decriminalisation and legalisation are 2 different policies, I find arguments that criminalisation of marrijua usage  is useless and socialy detrimental very convincing and do think that it is a good policy. I am completely opposed to Singapore's treatment of weed as a hard drug and it's execution of weed smugglers.I don't really find the argument that the best solution is to create a legal industry and accept it as a normal habit in society convincing.

Principally legalisation means legal distribution channels, the possibility to regulate the product that is sold to consumers, quality control... all of that stuff that means a safer product and less violent trade

[sting in the rafters]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted? The judicial system, financial institutions, and the prospective employers are all ruining people's lives for chiefing to this day. For example, dentist literally told me she can't say for certain how getting fried impacts my teeth aside from it causing dry mouth (which is a byproduct of smoking/inhaling any non-heated gas and not unique to THC in of itself).


And sure, it can cause schizophrenia if you're genetically predisposed to it and that's a risk factor one needs to be mindful of. Frankly I find it to be a much more acceptable one than the other common societal vices such as drinking, processed foods, gambling, etc. Smoking weed doesn't ruin your life unless you let it.

The fact there are jurisdictions where you can buy all the firearms your heart desires yet a cop finding even a one-hitter's worth of bud can f--- your life tells you all you need to know about the institutional acceptance of weed in this country.

I'd see more than a few people that relied on marijuana to focus but swore up and down that it was not addictive.

Their first problem was using bud to focus lol. But in all seriousness you can develop a dependency on it.  If you're going to work or class baked then yeah you have a problem (except if it's a bottom-of-the-barrel unskilled service job like fast food or movie theater staff, in which case it makes your shift 100x more entertaining).


The main difference I would say is any adverse effects from quitting tend to resolve quickly, it's not like nicotine or alcohol or benzos where you go through phases. Whenever I stop for drug testing or just take a t-break I can't sleep well/get agitated the first few nights but withdrawal symptoms are gone within a week. Which I mean try not going online at all nor eating junk food for a week and you'll probably feel the same way. It's about the reward system in your brain and discipline more than anything else.

I think the above reply illustrated what I find very difficult to accept about weed legalization, there are almost no argument that attempt to justify it on it's own. It's all a bunch of whataboutism about how this or that other legal thing is more harmful and attempts to write off the negative effects of it's usage rather than try to make a consistent argument about why another vice should be accepted into society.

Justifications for legalization without referencing any other vices:

-A proven pain relief alternative to opioids
-Stress relief. S--- hits so nice after a long shift.
-Treatment of eating disorders
-Spurring creativity.
-Economic development via the demand for paraphernalia
-It's fun lol (c'mon, what isn't clear about pursuit of happiness?)
-Need for federally funded research so doctors can provide their patients with accurate info concerning their usage
-Criminalization has ruined more lives than the plant itself


Moreover, the default should be decriminalization, not the status quo; The burden of proof is not on cannabis advocates for why it should be legalized, it's on prohibitionists for why it should be banned. This thread's supposed to be about if weed has become too accepted in the West when it clearly isn't accepted by most large-scale institutions.

[Former President tack50]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted? The judicial system, financial institutions, and the prospective employers are all ruining people's lives for chiefing to this day. For example, dentist literally told me she can't say for certain how getting fried impacts my teeth aside from it causing dry mouth (which is a byproduct of smoking/inhaling any non-heated gas and not unique to THC in of itself).

I mean, assuming you smoke the marijuana, it's still smoking, which has fairly obvious bad effects?

Plus idk how people smoke in the US; but here every person I know that smokes marijuana usually mixes it with a bit of tobacco, so you add all the bad effects of tobacco (perhaps to a lesser extent but it is still there!); and the impact of tobacco on your teeth is more than obvious and well-studied.

[Horus]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted? The judicial system, financial institutions, and the prospective employers are all ruining people's lives for chiefing to this day. For example, dentist literally told me she can't say for certain how getting fried impacts my teeth aside from it causing dry mouth (which is a byproduct of smoking/inhaling any non-heated gas and not unique to THC in of itself).

I mean, assuming you smoke the marijuana, it's still smoking, which has fairly obvious bad effects?

Plus idk how people smoke in the US; but here every person I know that smokes marijuana usually mixes it with a bit of tobacco, so you add all the bad effects of tobacco (perhaps to a lesser extent but it is still there!); and the impact of tobacco on your teeth is more than obvious and well-studied.

This is why edibles are a better alternative. 90% of complaints about weed have to do with the smoke, not the actual substance. Though mixing weed with tobacco is very much a European thing.

[sting in the rafters]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted? The judicial system, financial institutions, and the prospective employers are all ruining people's lives for chiefing to this day. For example, dentist literally told me she can't say for certain how getting fried impacts my teeth aside from it causing dry mouth (which is a byproduct of smoking/inhaling any non-heated gas and not unique to THC in of itself).

I mean, assuming you smoke the marijuana, it's still smoking, which has fairly obvious bad effects?

Plus idk how people smoke in the US; but here every person I know that smokes marijuana usually mixes it with a bit of tobacco, so you add all the bad effects of tobacco (perhaps to a lesser extent but it is still there!); and the impact of tobacco on your teeth is more than obvious and well-studied.

Hence the reiteration of any heated gas being a detriment to your oral health/respiratory tract. That said, unlike tobacco where nicotine itself is harmful to dental health because of its vaso-constrictive effects and promotion of osteomylitis, there's very little research on the adverse effects of THC itself. Therefore the effects of edibles, topical applications, etc are unknown.


As for your 2nd question, personally the only times I do are with blunts (tobacco cigar gutted out and stuffed with marijuana). Spliffs (Js with tobaccy in them) and mole-bowls are common here but a lot less common than overseas. More often than not it's smoked straight. Personally I'm not a fan, far too much of a head rush.

[Former President tack50]

Anyways, back to the OP question; I would argue that marijuana is in a very weird position.

From a legal point of view it is definitely not accepted enough; especially not in Europe (and Spain is actually one of the more lenient countries on marijuana I believe*). I would personally legalize smoking it and selling it in stores and what not; just like multiple US states have.

However from a societal point of view, at least for young people, one could argue that the OP is slightly correct. There is a sense among certain young people that marijuana is completely harmless and has no negative sideffects whatsoever, which is obviously very wrong. Of course this depends a lot on your particular group of friends and it definitely does not help that everyone in my circles of friends smokes other than myself**

Of course, among anyone beyond a certain age (I think the cutoff is somewhere around 40 years old) there is certainly not enough societal acceptance; this is an issue with very high age gaps.

In any case this is something that would be solved with better education on marijuana. Just like how everyone understands to "drink responsibly" or how tobacco packets have lots of warnings; education would easily solve this. Do not demonize marijuana; just make sure that people are aware of its negative effects and smoke responsably.



<sup>*: Marijuana is technically illegal in Spain, but our laws have more holes than French cheese, to the point that there are tons of "cannabis associations" where it is legal to smoke; thanks to (from a legal point of view) the marijuana magically appearing there or something like that.

In any case while illegal, possession is decriminalized so it doesn't carry jail time. However the fines are quite harsh. Only 600€ fine for the first offence; but multiple time offenders get fined 10000€! That is absolutely insane to me.

**: And yes, I have tried marijuana multiple times. And I've always hated the effect, makes me quite paranoid and nervous and it is not pleasant at all. But if other people like it, good for them. Like I say I am in favour of legalization</sup>

[Alben Barkley]

Life's too short to pearl-clutch and hand-wring about the possible potential future health effects of things like weed and booze, let alone to impose draconian measures restricting people from accessing these things. People should be free to make their own decisions about what they put in their own bodies, knowing the risks. All I know is that my risk of dying in a car crash is probably at least as high as my risk of dying from alcohol-related complications, but that's not gonna stop me from driving. At a certain point you just have to accept the fact that there is inherent risk in life and you simply cannot control everything. You can be the most cautious, clean-living person in the world and still die young in some freak accident or of some genetic disease. Or conversely you can be a hard-drinking, drug-using risk taker who lives fast and hard and yet make it to 90 with no major health complications. It's impossible to know which group you are in until it happens. Sure you can do certain things in an attempt to minimize risks, but you can't eliminate them, and attempting to do so seems like insanity to me. Live the life you have now to the fullest because it's all you know for sure you'll ever have. And even if you don't want to do so, it's wrong to try to stop others from doing it.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Life's too short to pearl-clutch and hand-wring about the possible potential future health effects of things like weed and booze, let alone to impose draconian measures restricting people from accessing these things. People should be free to make their own decisions about what they put in their own bodies, knowing the risks. All I know is that my risk of dying in a car crash is probably at least as high as my risk of dying from alcohol-related complications, but that's not gonna stop me from driving. At a certain point you just have to accept the fact that there is inherent risk in life and you simply cannot control everything. You can be the most cautious, clean-living person in the world and still die young in some freak accident or of some genetic disease. Or conversely you can be a hard-drinking, drug-using risk taker who lives fast and hard and yet make it to 90 with no major health complications. It's impossible to know which group you are in until it happens. Sure you can do certain things in an attempt to minimize risks, but you can't eliminate them, and attempting to do so seems like insanity to me. Live the life you have now to the fullest because it's all you know for sure you'll ever have. And even if you don't want to do so, it's wrong to try to stop others from doing it.

But all those things have a negative health effect and the recent dive straight into marrijuna legalizaition seems to have ignored that.

[Mechavada]

Here's an important question: Why do you care?

[CEO Mindset]

Not accepted enough. There needs to be no taxation, no age restrictions on purchase/use, no laws against public usage or usage in buildings.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Here's an important question: Why do you care?

Because drugs like Alcahol and Tobacco have ended many lives and spread mass-suffering for millions by negativley impacting society.

[Thank you for being a friend...]

I have no idea why it was even popular to begin with - the stuff smells like death

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I have no idea why it was even popular to begin with - the stuff smells like death

It's possible to take it in edible or tincture form which doesn't have a smell.

[beaver2.0]

Lmfaooooo this the perfect thread to see coming in from my morning bowl. You're trying to tell me that a substance which federal research/commercial banking are still prohibited for and usage can bar one from a good amount of jobs in most states has become too accepted?

This is a good point, and I think it's hard to give an answer on marijuana's acceptance simply because it varies so much.  Of people my age, opinions range from "I wouldn't smoke it, but who cares if others do" to people advocating full legalization. 

It's hard to give an answer to the initial question without taking into account the massive differences in opinion by age group.