January 6th legal proceedings and investigations megathread

[GeorgiaModerate]

The guy today said they left the Capitol when Trump tweeted that they should leave (hours later) and said if he tweeted that earlier they would have left then. So that's on Trump then for not telling them to leave immediately after the breach.

Leaving the Capitol is immaterial. Pence's treason had already taken place by that point.

Do look up the Constitutional definiton of treason. It's in Article III.

[BG-NY]

Neither of them can give unlawful orders you turnip, and the orders Trump gave were unlawful. That is why they returned him to the White House. That and that alone, not any sort of instruction from Pence.

If Pence gave the order to the Secret Service to head back to the White House, how does that change your view of the situation?

[emailking]

What does it matter since, if Pence did that, then the moment Trump orders them to take him to the Capitol, Pence's orders are cancelled.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Neither of them can give unlawful orders you turnip, and the orders Trump gave were unlawful. That is why they returned him to the White House. That and that alone, not any sort of instruction from Pence.

If Pence gave the order to the Secret Service to head back to the White House, how does that change your view of the situation?

It doesn't change it at all. If Trump ordered the Secret Service to take part in a crime, then they ignore that order. If Trump did not give them any other orders that were not illegal, then they would logically follow the most senior *lawful* order that had been given to them, and if that was from the Vice President then so be it.

If Trump had *at literally any point* given the Secret Service an order that would not have made them an accessory to a crime, then yes, that order would have superseded any order from Pence. The fact that Trump *only gave them unlawful orders and nothing else* is the reason he was returned to the White House.

[Yoda]

Why are you guys engaging with his nonsensical, gaslighting BS? I've had him blocked for months now I think, and this thread's past couple pages is a perfect encapsulation of why I was right to do so.

[emailking]

It's emotionally engaging I guess. :shrug:

[BG-NY]

It doesn't change it at all. If Trump ordered the Secret Service to take part in a crime, then they ignore that order. If Trump did not give them any other orders that were not illegal, then they would logically follow the most senior *lawful* order that had been given to them, and if that was from the Vice President then so be it.

If Trump had *at literally any point* given the Secret Service an order that would not have made them an accessory to a crime, then yes, that order would have superseded any order from Pence. The fact that Trump *only gave them unlawful orders and nothing else* is the reason he was returned to the White House.

Who elected the S Service? They don't get to decide laws.

[BG-NY]

I very well may vote for Biden in 2024 -- especially if DeSantis is the nominee. But there is no question that his ascension needs to be investigation, as do the perpetrators.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Why are you guys engaging with his nonsensical, gaslighting BS? I've had him blocked for months now I think, and this thread's past couple pages is a perfect encapsulation of why I was right to do so.

Yeah, I think that's the right course of action at this point.

[GeorgiaModerate]

And now back to real news...

https://twitter.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1547006546781130753

[7,052,770]

The Secret Service is under no obligation to carry out instructions that would aid and abet criminal activity - indeed they are obliged to ignore any such instructions. The president is not a dictator, and he does not have the authority to turn the Secret Service into a Praetorian Guard as part of a plot to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.

This is not a difficult concept.

In this case, whisking Trump away to the White House caused chaos. If Trump was at the Capitol, no way people enter and trespass in the building.

What are you even talking about? He would have personally led way more people inside if he'd been there.

[emailking]

Good news about DOJ. I get the Committee's point about separation of powers, but I think this is too important not to give DOJ everything ASAP.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

And now back to real news...

https://twitter.com/ZcohenCNN/status/1547006546781130753

Why is the the DOJ needing to ask Congress for it's own investigation results eighteen months after the coup attempt in question?

[emailking]

One reason is they investigate from the ground up and are only now getting to the higher ups. The committee went top down. Yeah maybe they should have gone faster but that's how they do it.

Another reason is that they are prosecuting Oath Keepers and Proud Boys for conspiracy and they are obligated to turn over any exculpatory evidence, even if it was gathered by Congress. They don't know what's there until they receive it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

If you and your friends plan a robbery on a 7/11 and somebody ends up dead, you can all be charged with murder, even if it's one of your accomplices. How can you plan to overthrow the damn government, riot, and yet so many people are getting light charges or no charges.

Trump especially should be in prison.

It's starting to feel like the Democratic establishment quietly decided that the response to Trump's coup needs to be at least as stupid as the coup itself was. (Probably because something, something, bipartisan.) Next thing you know they'll be saying that charging Trump for his involvement in his coup before the 2024 elections would be prejudicial.

[BG-NY]

What are you even talking about? He would have personally led way more people inside if he'd been there.

We have what actually happened in reality (people trespassed).

Why assume it goes in one direction vs the other? Either Trump is a coward or is the bravest American since General Washington -- pick one.

[Torie]

What are you even talking about? He would have personally led way more people inside if he'd been there.

We have what actually happened in reality (people trespassed).

Why assume it goes in one direction vs the other? Either Trump is a coward or is the bravest American since General Washington -- pick one.

Who broke what laws and when does not turn on your speculation or the speculation of others as to what Trump would have done, and others would have done, if Trump had gone to the Capitol. Such speculation is an entirely entropic exercise, as is arguing about the plausibility of such speculation.

That said, it would from this particular quarter be a sweet and indeed most delicious irony if Trump gets tagged for a felony for what he did after Jan 6, rather than on or before, including without limitation witness tampering. That is what can happen to talented con artists who keep testing the legal limits of their unethical conduct. Any given solar flare can take them down.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1547289576586129408

[Progressive Pessimist]

I find it interesting that it took years for the ex-Oath Keeper to recognize that the group held antisemitic views he found disturbing. I'm sorry, but what did he think he was getting into?

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/1547390376763445249

[BG-NY]

I remember when breaking news was breaking, or news, or both.

[Koharu]

I find it interesting that it took years for the ex-Oath Keeper to recognize that the group held antisemitic views he found disturbing. I'm sorry, but what did he think he was getting into?

It's likely that he was happy to be a bigot when he signed up, but life experiences or things he saw changed his view and he was no longer comfortable with the bigotry he had previously been ok with. People can change for the better.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/1547390376763445249

While there are plenty of other deserving things he's done, can someone in the DOJ please bring charges against this flagrant repeat criminal? (And then ideally declare him a flight risk and deny bail until his competency hearing.)

[emailking]

From everything I've heard, you couldn't get a witness tampering conviction on this single missed call. But it could play into a bigger picture if there are other examples of him doing this that they could uncover.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/1547390376763445249

Maybe it's just because I'm coming off a long day and my brain is tired, but that tweet's wording is absolutely awful.