Opinion of the person who said this.....

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

With Restitution demanded by blacks and blacks citing slavery as the cause behind their mainstream intelectual shortfallings, we are paying the price.

Oh, boo-hoo. Us whites are so oppressed by the black man and his cruel demands for "restitution".

And that's intellectual, racist.   

what?

[Ebowed]

How is he not.  With Restitution demanded by blacks and blacks citing slavery as the cause behind their mainstream intelectual shortfallings, we are paying the price.

Key word: demanded.  It's not going to happen.  Are white people like us actually paying for any sort of reparations?  No, and we never will.  And they don't cite slavery as the cause behind their poverty (not "intellectual shortfallings", which is simply a racist thing to say), but rather segregation and Jim Crow.  Which, granted, cannot and should not be solved with affirmative action, which I agree is racist and stupid.  But we're not paying a price, we're not being discriminated against, and we don't have it worse off than the blacks.  The sooner we stop playing victim, the quicker we can actually get down to solving the problems with racism that exist.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

How is he not.  With Restitution demanded by blacks and blacks citing slavery as the cause behind their mainstream intelectual shortfallings, we are paying the price.

Key word: demanded.  It's not going to happen.  Are white people like us actually paying for any sort of reparations?  No, and we never will.  And they don't cite slavery as the cause behind their poverty (not "intellectual shortfallings", which is simply a racist thing to say), but rather segregation and Jim Crow.  Which, granted, cannot and should not be solved with affirmative action, which I agree is racist and stupid.  But we're not paying a price, we're not being discriminated against, and we don't have it worse off than the blacks.  The sooner we stop playing victim, the quicker we can actually get down to solving the problems with racism that exist.

They HAVE demanded them.  and intellectually, on AVERAGE, blacks aren't as smart as whites, and yes that has some to do with Jim Crow lawss and segregation, but that was 30 years ago--they could've pulled themselves out by now--and HAVEN't  even Cosby agrees.

[Rob]

what?

Oh, boo-hoo. Us whites are so oppressed by the black man and his cruel demands for "restitution".

Here I was poking fun at your ridiculous assertion that whites are "paying the price" for slavery.

And that's intellectual, racist.

Here I corrected a glaringly ironic misspelling on your part, while pointing out the racist nature of your post (specifically, the line about "intelectual [sic] shortfallings" of African-Americans).   

¿Comprende?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

what?

Oh, boo-hoo. Us whites are so oppressed by the black man and his cruel demands for "restitution".

Here I was poking fun at your ridiculous assertion that whites are "paying the price" for slavery.

And that's intellectual, racist.

Here I corrected a glaringly ironic misspelling on your part, while pointing out the racist nature of your post (specifically, the line about "intelectual [sic] shortfallings" of African-Americans).   

¿Comprende?

OK--kinda hard to follow at first--seeing as I'm in 3 heated debates right now and doing an Advanced Comp. project.

[Ebowed]

They HAVE demanded them.

I acknowledged as much, and countered with the fact that demand does not necessarily meet approval.  Be honest, are we ever going to pay reparations to descendants to slaves?  Of course not.  So their demands don't amount to anything.

and intellectually, on AVERAGE, blacks aren't as smart as whites

Is that because they're inherently inferior or because they're stuck in an economic system that de-emphasizes education, a system that came about due to the segregation and Jim Crow laws of the past?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

They HAVE demanded them.

I acknowledged as much, and countered with the fact that demand does not necessarily meet approval.  Be honest, are we ever going to pay reparations to descendants to slaves?  Of course not.  So their demands don't amount to anything.

With some of our courts, I wouldn't be surprised.

and intellectually, on AVERAGE, blacks aren't as smart as whites

Is that because they're inherently inferior or because they're stuck in an economic system that de-emphasizes education, a system that came about due to the segregation and Jim Crow laws of the past?

It's because they're lazy and wait for whites and welfare programs to fix everything for them.

[Rob]

It's because they're lazy and wait for whites and welfare programs to fix everything for them.

Yeah, you're a racist.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's because they're lazy and wait for whites and welfare programs to fix everything for them.

Yeah, you're a racist.

No.  I commend the blacks who get out of the situations they're in.  And others need to follow their example.

[Ebowed]

With some of our courts, I wouldn't be surprised.

A court cannot just order taxpayer dollars to go towards the redistribution of wealth to descendants of slaves.  Surely, as I am not a descendant of slave-owners, I should not be paying for reparations, but neither should a descendant of slave-owners, for he is not responsible for any form of slavery.

And until your unlikely hypothetical happens, we aren't paying a price.  Face it, white people in general have it better off.

It's because they're lazy and wait for whites and welfare programs to fix everything for them.

I don't really think this dignifies a response.

[dazzleman]

A court cannot just order taxpayer dollars to go towards the redistribution of wealth to descendants of slaves.  

You don't think there are some judges out there who would try if they had the opportunity?

The courts have issued outrageous rulings and seriously overstepped their bounds.  I wouldn't rule this out at all.

[dazzleman]

How is he not.  With Restitution demanded by blacks and blacks citing slavery as the cause behind their mainstream intelectual shortfallings, we are paying the price.

Key word: demanded.  It's not going to happen.  Are white people like us actually paying for any sort of reparations?  No, and we never will.  And they don't cite slavery as the cause behind their poverty (not "intellectual shortfallings", which is simply a racist thing to say), but rather segregation and Jim Crow.  Which, granted, cannot and should not be solved with affirmative action, which I agree is racist and stupid.  But we're not paying a price, we're not being discriminated against, and we don't have it worse off than the blacks.  The sooner we stop playing victim, the quicker we can actually get down to solving the problems with racism that exist.

They HAVE demanded them.  and intellectually, on AVERAGE, blacks aren't as smart as whites, and yes that has some to do with Jim Crow lawss and segregation, but that was 30 years ago--they could've pulled themselves out by now--and HAVEN't  even Cosby agrees.

I'm not sure 30 years is long enough to undo hundreds of years of history.

What Cosby says, correctly, is that many don't seem to be going in the right direction.  Our policies on welfare have encouraged behavior that takes things in the wrong direction, and that is tragic.

In a sense, both blacks and whites are the 'victims' of bad policies on race.  Truth be told, we've never had good policies.  We didn't have them during the Jim Crow era, and we don't have them now.

The poor state of some segments of the black community affects society as a whole in a negative way.  Having been nearly victimized in a major way by two people from this underclass, I can attest to that.

[dazzleman]

It's because they're lazy and wait for whites and welfare programs to fix everything for them.

I think you go too far with this statement.

Most blacks go to work every day, just like most other people.  So I think this is a very unfair statement to make in such a general sense.

It is true, I think, that the sad remnants of the 'civil rights' movement encourage passive thinking among those they claim to be representing, and encourage people to think that it is up to others to fix their problems.  Those who listen to them tend not to do well, but there are some blacks who disdain that thinking.  Most blacks do not listen to this thinking in a day-to-day sense, since only a relatively small percentage are on welfare, contrary to some people's perceptions.  However, I think in a broader sense, this type of thinking does undermine an uncomfortably high percentage of blacks from reaching their full potential.

There is a hard knot of persistent unemployment in the black community that we have to find some way to address.  It involves a certain percentage of black men, and is caused, I believe, largely by fatherlessness and the shortage of good male role models.

When I think of what has happened to the black family since large-scale welfare programs were introduced, I could cry.  It has been so incredibly destructive.  The only real solution is a rebuilding of the black family.

A real solution to this problem will require some change in thinking among both whites and blacks.  Right now, there is a bad cycle in race relations, whereby some blacks simply blame whites for all their problems (and in fairness, this is the official line of the 'civil rights' movement), while some whites use the resultant black behavior that they witness (which in some respects only involves a minority of blacks) to justify continued prejudice against blacks as a whole.

Many blacks are afraid to own up to the problems in their communities for fear that this will only encourage white racists.  I think this is a false fear, since white racists have already taken those problems into account.  I think the black community would earn a lot more respect if it did acknowledge its problems (and the 70% illegitimacy rate is the biggest one I can think of) and tried to solve them.  Those who are seen as trying to help themselves usually attract a lot more assistance from outsiders than those who aren't trying.

OTOH, many whites need to let go of their blind and knee-jerk prejudices, and recognize that many blacks are highly intelligent, good people with a potential just as high as any other type of person, and we should welcome them as assets to society rather than trying to push them down.  Pushing people down never, never ends up being beneficial to society as a whole.  It's incredibly stupid.

[Joe Republic]

Here comes Dazzle with the apologist excuses for Lincoln...suprising.

What about your apologist excuses for the Founding Fathers owning slaves, which you provided just the other day?  Dazzleman said that Lincoln's quote shouldn't be judged by today's moral standards, because the context in which it was given was entirely different then.  That is pretty much exactly what you said the other day about the Fathers and their slaves.

[??????????]

Here comes Dazzle with the apologist excuses for Lincoln...suprising.

What about your apologist excuses for the Founding Fathers owning slaves, which you provided just the other day?  Dazzleman said that Lincoln's quote shouldn't be judged by today's moral standards, because the context in which it was given was entirely different then.  That is pretty much exactly what you said the other day about the Fathers and their slaves.

Go back and read what I responded to him later, about the myths surrounding Lincoln. That's mainly why I made that comment.

But in a way I agree with Dazzle and Inks. The black community does have a different attitude towards work and family life then whites do. I agree with Dazzle on the fact that the majority of blacks are hard working individuals, which is very true, however their is also a mindset that they should be "set up" in case anything goes wrong because "the white man owes it to us". And I've seen this attitude from time to time personally.

[dazzleman]

Here comes Dazzle with the apologist excuses for Lincoln...suprising.

What about your apologist excuses for the Founding Fathers owning slaves, which you provided just the other day?  Dazzleman said that Lincoln's quote shouldn't be judged by today's moral standards, because the context in which it was given was entirely different then.  That is pretty much exactly what you said the other day about the Fathers and their slaves.

Go back and read what I responded to him later, about the myths surrounding Lincoln. That's mainly why I made that comment.

But in a way I agree with Dazzle and Inks. The black community does have a different attitude towards work and family life then whites do. I agree with Dazzle on the fact that the majority of blacks are hard working individuals, which is very true, however their is also a mindset that they should be "set up" in case anything goes wrong because "the white man owes it to us". And I've seen this attitude from time to time personally.

States, I don't think you should link what I said with what Inks said.  Inks was way too absolute in his negative statement.  I acknowledge the negative impact of an entitlement mentality (and believe me, many non-black people suffer from this mentality also), but dispute the idea that it can be applied to even a majority of blacks in their day-to-day life.

Some people would read what I said and call me a racist.  But I think political correctness is, in its own way, the worst form of racism in practice.  To get past a problem, you must acknowledge the truth, but do it in such a way that it doesn't condemn innocent people, or make it too much of a black-and-white issue, if you'll pardon the pun.

[Ebowed]

A court cannot just order taxpayer dollars to go towards the redistribution of wealth to descendants of slaves.  

You don't think there are some judges out there who would try if they had the opportunity?

The courts have issued outrageous rulings and seriously overstepped their bounds.  I wouldn't rule this out at all.

Nobody in a position of power supports slavery reparations.  If, somehow, any sort of judge imposed a reparations program on the country, it would get struck down by a higher court.

Besides, Inks and I are just discussing DownWifDuhLeft's claim that he is paying the price of an ex-slave owner.  Until slavery reparations arrive, which all hinges on your ridiculous hypothetical, we're not paying a "price."

[Nym90]

You guys fell right into the trap that States set.....

Every person must be evaluated in the context of his times.  While that quote sounds terrible today, at the time it was given, it was quite a bit more 'progressive' than what most other people thought.

My thoughts exactly. Lincoln was of course far from perfect, but far better than any other major political leader at the time.

[??????????]

You guys fell right into the trap that States set.....

Every person must be evaluated in the context of his times.  While that quote sounds terrible today, at the time it was given, it was quite a bit more 'progressive' than what most other people thought.

My thoughts exactly. Lincoln was of course far from perfect, but far better than any other major political leader at the time.

So then you approve of suspending Habeaus Corpus, throwing political opponents in jail with no trial date and for an indefinite period of time and you agree with shutting down the free presses. Ok, don't every call Bushs' very minor offenses "bad" ever again.

[Joe Republic]

So then you approve of suspending Habeaus Corpus, throwing political opponents in jail with no trial date and for an indefinite period of time and you agree with shutting down the free presses. Ok, don't every call Bushs' very minor offenses "bad" ever again.

If you support the ongoing use of Guantanamo Bay, and agree with Ann Coulter's views on how to deal with the 'liberal media', then I fail to see how you can use that as an argument against Lincoln.

[??????????]

So then you approve of suspending Habeaus Corpus, throwing political opponents in jail with no trial date and for an indefinite period of time and you agree with shutting down the free presses. Ok, don't every call Bushs' very minor offenses "bad" ever again.

If you support the ongoing use of Guantanamo Bay, and agree with Ann Coulter's views on how to deal with the 'liberal media', then I fail to see how you can use that as an argument against Lincoln.

Um, their are legitimate POWs at Guantanomo Bay and they AREN'T American citizens, therefore they do not have constitutional rights like Americans. Try again. I do agree with the way the media was handled during WW2 and I think that's the appropriate course to take. I don't believe however in throwing reporters who disagree with me in jail however.

[Joe Republic]

Alright, what about the Presidential Military Order of November 13th 2001, which allows for the indefinite detainment of any American citizen who the government feels like declaring as an 'enemy combatant', which contravenes habeas corpus and certain parts of the Bill of Rights?

Also, if you have a problem with Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus (which obviously I do as well), then you should feel exactly the same way about Jefferson Davis doing the same thing in the CSA.

[J. J.]

"I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races. I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. ... And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Sounds like Lincoln around 1858.

[??????????]

Alright, what about the Presidential Military Order of November 13th 2001, which allows for the indefinite detainment of any American citizen who the government feels like declaring as an 'enemy combatant', which contravenes habeas corpus and certain parts of the Bill of Rights?

I disagree with that order if it involves American citizens.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yes, actually I do. And I have condemned it in the past, not on this board but I have indeed condemned it.

[Alcon]

It's because they're lazy and wait for whites and welfare programs to fix everything for them.

Yeah, you're a racist.

No.  I commend the blacks who get out of the situations they're in.  And others need to follow their example.

Yeah, anyone who can't get out of poverty is lazy.

And next time, don't generalise it to every black person, thanks.