Biden administration finally does something good

[Old Man Willow]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/menthol-cigarettes-biden-fda-ban/

The Biden administration announced its intention Thursday to ban menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars, including menthol.

The FDA pointed to studies suggesting that a menthol ban would help people quit smoking, noting that menthol makes tobacco more palatable and "facilitates progression to regular smoking, particularly among youth and young adults."

"One study suggests that banning menthol cigarettes in the U.S. would lead an additional 923,000 smokers to quit, including 230,000 African Americans in the first 13 to 17 months after a ban goes into effect," the FDA statement said.

The tobacco industry is responsible for millions of deaths. Ideally sale of tobacco would be illegal and its usage considered a form of self harm, but baby steps.

[It’s so Joever]

F**K YES!
Down with big tobacco!

[Del Tachi]

How could Biden do this?  This is just going to create an illicit tobacco market that will result in more over-policing against POC communities (a whopping 85% of Black smokers smoke methols, FWIW.) 

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.   

[vitoNova]

Nicotine addiction is a myth.  What isn't a myth, however, are addictive personalities.  A vital difference.

Obsessive consumption of, say, bacon cheeseburgers is equally damaging to one's health.  But banning the sale of bacon cheeseburgers to anyone under the age of 21 is just as silly as banning tobacco.  Which is just a plant. Like the devil's lettuce.   

The real issue is why people are prone to self-destructive behaviors in the first place.   They'll just find something else to abuse. 

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Nicotine addiction is a myth.  What isn't a myth, however, are addictive personalities.  A vital difference.

I'm not an expert, but I'm almost certain chemical dependency has been confirmed by lab studies.

And as a smoker, you wouldn't want to tell me addiction isn't real at 6 am.

[John Dule]

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.   

This is fine until we have to pay for those people's healthcare.

[7,052,770]

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.   

This is fine until we have to pay for those people's healthcare.

Exactly. A single treatment of chemotherapy for a Medicare patient costs the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars. Multiply that by the number of times a typical cancer patient gets chemo and the number of 65+ people with cancer (not just lung), as well as all sorts of other health problems caused by smoking.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.  

This is fine until we have to pay for those people's healthcare.

This is why you tax the industry. Moving it into the black market does not solve this problem.

[dead0man]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

[ProudModerate2]

Nicotine addiction is a myth.  What isn't a myth, however, are addictive personalities.  A vital difference.

I'm not an expert, but I'm almost certain chemical dependency has been confirmed by lab studies.
And as a smoker, you wouldn't want to tell me addiction isn't real at 6 am.

I knew a number of people where their body would wake-them-up in the middle of the night, multiple times, because their body was craving the nicotine and other crap in cigarettes.
It's 2021 (not 1980) and I can't believe people are still creating excuses for the addictive qualities of cancer-sticks.

[It’s so Joever]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Last time I check, second hand obesity isn’t much of a thing, unless the CATO medical institute has discovered a new type of disease.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.   

This is fine until we have to pay for those people's healthcare.

Most smokers actually have lower aggregate healthcare spending because they die younger. Draw your own policy conclusions.

[President Johnson]

The thread title is hilarious and should be changed on and refer to the actual subject.

[7,052,770]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Not that I doubt the result necessarily, but that article is 20 years old and at least in your link doesn't make it clear whether it's measuring commercial or Medicare health costs.

In the 0-65 population, my understanding of prevailing studies is that smoking increases costs by less than 10% but is way higher in the 65+.

[Ferguson97]

I disagree with Biden's decision here. This will result in over-policing of minorities. A more effective solution would be a sin tax.

[Alcibiades]

How could Biden do this?  This is just going to create an illicit tobacco market that will result in more over-policing against POC communities (a whopping 85% of Black smokers smoke methols, FWIW.) 

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.   

It’s almost impossible to look at the public health-oriented policies towards smoking by Western governments over the past few decades and conclude that they have been anything but a resounding success.

[GeneralMacArthur]

When are we going to ban Tik Tok?

[dead0man]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Not that I doubt the result necessarily, but that article is 20 years old and at least in your link doesn't make it clear whether it's measuring commercial or Medicare health costs.

In the 0-65 population, my understanding of prevailing studies is that smoking increases costs by less than 10% but is way higher in the 65+.

"Health care costs associated with obesity and smoking are substantial, about $1,360 and $1,046 per person per year, respectively," said University of Illinois kinesiology and community health professor Ruopeng An, who conducted the analysis. These numbers reflect the added costs of obesity and smoking above the average annual health care expenditures of non-obese and nonsmoking Americans, he said.

and this one

Obesity has a similar impact on life expectancy. But while smoking certainly carries numerous and substantial health risks, obesity poses even more.
A 2019 study of nearly 450,000 people in PLoS Genetics linked excessive weight to coronary artery disease, stroke, type 1 and 2 diabetes, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), chronic liver disease, renal failure, and lung cancer.
According to a Lancet review of 57 studies, obese people ages 40 to 45 can expect an eight to 10 year loss of life expectancy.

[DrScholl]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Seriously, how old are you? To say something like this is completely immature.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Not that I doubt the result necessarily, but that article is 20 years old and at least in your link doesn't make it clear whether it's measuring commercial or Medicare health costs.

In the 0-65 population, my understanding of prevailing studies is that smoking increases costs by less than 10% but is way higher in the 65+.

"Health care costs associated with obesity and smoking are substantial, about $1,360 and $1,046 per person per year, respectively," said University of Illinois kinesiology and community health professor Ruopeng An, who conducted the analysis. These numbers reflect the added costs of obesity and smoking above the average annual health care expenditures of non-obese and nonsmoking Americans, he said.

and this one

Obesity has a similar impact on life expectancy. But while smoking certainly carries numerous and substantial health risks, obesity poses even more.
A 2019 study of nearly 450,000 people in PLoS Genetics linked excessive weight to coronary artery disease, stroke, type 1 and 2 diabetes, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), chronic liver disease, renal failure, and lung cancer.
According to a Lancet review of 57 studies, obese people ages 40 to 45 can expect an eight to 10 year loss of life expectancy.

There is also the fact that coronavirus becomes about three times more deadly. The lack of focus on healthy eating/exercise and anti-obesity measures in the pandemic has been shocking and speaks to the short-sightedness of most countries' coronavirus responses.

Lockdowns that damaged most sectors of the economy and made people more sedentary were implemented based on mortality rates. In a sense, we were effectively subsiding McDonalds. The game will have to be up for reckless consumerism soon.

[John Dule]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Seriously, how old are you? To say something like this is completely immature.

Is he wrong?

[有爭議嘅領土 of The Figgis Agency]

How could Biden do this?  This is just going to create an illicit tobacco market that will result in more over-policing against POC communities (a whopping 85% of Black smokers smoke methols, FWIW.)   

From Wiki:

Race-specific advertising exacerbated small (a few percent) racial differences in menthol cigarette preferences into large (tens of percent) ones.[14] It has been proposed that menthol cigarettes, which are more addictive but no less harmful,[15] should be banned, partially on grounds that race-specific marketing for a more addictive product is a social injustice.[16]

Despite it being illegal at the time, tobacco marketers gave out free menthol cigarette samples to children in black neighborhoods in the U.S.[17][18] Similar practices continue in Sub-Saharan Africa, where a 2016 study found over 12% of South African students had been given free cigarettes by tobacco company representatives.[19]

In addition to high use by African Americans, menthol cigarettes are used disproportionately by adolescents, women, and lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) Americans.[20] Americans identifying as LGBT are twice as likely to use menthol cigarettes, according to CDC research.[21] Where these demographics overlap, menthol use is especially high: most female LGBT smokers use menthols, as do 80% of African American youth smokers and 70% of LGBT youth smokers.[22] Tobacco companies have targeted the LGBT community with advertising for menthol cigarettes, most notably through Project SCUM.[22]

A 2020 US Surgeon General Report, Smoking Cessation, concluded that there is not enough evidence to support banning menthol as a way to reduce smoking.[41]

I disagree with Biden's decision here. This will result in over-policing of minorities. A more effective solution would be a sin tax.

This seems like one of those issues where it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm a S019/Forumlurker161-style nanny-statist at heart on public health issues, but I understand that these types of policies can backfire in the real world.

[darklordoftech]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Seriously, how old are you? To say something like this is completely immature.

Is he wrong?

Since when does being fat cause someone to smell?

[Oregon Eagle Politics]

for the 7th time, fat people cost us more in medical services than smokers, ex-smokers, or the elderly

and they smell worse too, also dumber.

Seriously, how old are you? To say something like this is completely immature.

Is he wrong?

Since when does being fat cause someone to smell?

being fat doesn't mean you smell bad, but it might mean that others think that you smell bad
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-obesity-psychology/study-measures-the-foul-smell-of-fat-bias-idINKBN0MG2D120150320

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

How could Biden do this?  This is just going to create an illicit tobacco market that will result in more over-policing against POC communities (a whopping 85% of Black smokers smoke menthols, FWIW.) 

Jokes aside, I'm increasing of the opinion that "public health" advocacy is the worst form of nanny-statism.  Let people have their vices, life sucks enough for most people as is, sheesh.   

It may cause an increase in people rolling cigarettes as it would be quite easy to buy menthol (or peppermint oil) to loose tobacco. So people who insist on smoking menthol cigarettes could still do so as it would only be a manufacturing ban. It just wouldn't be as convenient as buying pre-mentholated cigarettes. Anything more aggressive than a manufacturing ban would require Congressional or State action, which is extremely unlikely to happen anytime this decade.