MD-SEN 2024: Cardin retiring, Hogan IN

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

IIRC the CW was that Sarbanes was likely to run for Governor rather than Senate

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I briefly read this as “Who replaces Ben Carson” and got very confused

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/EricCortellessa/status/1655618032092295187

She's a tad establishment for my liking but is a very good for for Maryland, one of the most establishment states. Unless Raskin jumps in, she has my endorsement.

Not sure what's more than a tad in your book. Alsobrooks is playing the game like Cardin did, waiting your turn, etc. Anyone's better than Trone but she's not great and won't back Bmore. Doubt anyone good is getting elected here.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but what’s wrong with Trone?  I thought he was a pretty generic mainstream progressive.  Alsobrooks is basically the definition of an establishment candidate in Maryland iirc.  Isn’t this just establishment liberal vs. establishment liberal?  I’d far prefer Raskin to either of them, honestly.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/EricCortellessa/status/1655618032092295187

She's a tad establishment for my liking but is a very good for for Maryland, one of the most establishment states. Unless Raskin jumps in, she has my endorsement.

Not sure what's more than a tad in your book. Alsobrooks is playing the game like Cardin did, waiting your turn, etc. Anyone's better than Trone but she's not great and won't back Bmore. Doubt anyone good is getting elected here.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but what’s wrong with Trone?  I thought he was a pretty generic mainstream progressive.  Alsobrooks is basically the definition of an establishment candidate in Maryland iirc.  Isn’t this just establishment liberal vs. establishment liberal?  I’d far prefer Raskin to either of them, honestly.

I don't like Trone solely because i don't like rich people blatantly buying themselves seats

Fair enough

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base.  

Jawano said he'd drop out and run for the House if Raskin runs

I was referring to Trone, not Jawano.  I don’t think Jawano has a path to victory in the Senate primary.  Trone and Alsobrooks both seem like solid mainstream progressives.  I’d be happy with either at this point, although I’d probably vote for Alsobrooks if I lived in Maryland.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base.  

Jawano said he'd drop out and run for the House if Raskin runs

I was referring to Trone, not Jawano.  I don’t think Jawano has a path to victory in the Senate primary.  Trone and Alsobrooks both seem like solid mainstream progressives.  I’d be happy with either at this point, although I’d probably vote for Alsobrooks if I lived in Maryland.

Trone "progressive"!? That's a laugh.

On what major issues isn’t he a mainstream progressive?  Please cite with examples of specific policy positions.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base.  

Jawano said he'd drop out and run for the House if Raskin runs

I was referring to Trone, not Jawano.  I don’t think Jawano has a path to victory in the Senate primary.  Trone and Alsobrooks both seem like solid mainstream progressives.  I’d be happy with either at this point, although I’d probably vote for Alsobrooks if I lived in Maryland.

Trone "progressive"!? That's a laugh.

On what major issues isn’t he a mainstream progressive?  Please cite with examples of specific policy positions.

Israel, (interest-conflicted) regulation, & no less an entity than socialism itself. What "mainstream progressive" is also a New Dem Problem Solver who not only hired a veteran Capitol Hill staffer with a specific reputation for serving moderate-leaning Blue Dog congressmen to be his Chief of Staff, but whose own website can literally be publicly quoted as follows?:

Steve Scully (0:14) - Let me begin with what the new Congress will look like, you will be now in the minority but a very narrow minority for the Democrats, the Republicans only, what a four-seat majority in 2023. So how’s that going to affect the leadership? If he becomes speaker? Kevin McCarthy. And where does that put moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans like you?

David Trone (0:36) - Well, I think it puts, if Kevin McCarthy can get the votes needed, 218 requisite votes needed, which, as we all know, he’s certainly struggling right now with some Freedom Caucus members who are not cooperating. But once he does that, and I think he will, I think the moderates are going to clearly be in a good spot, Republican moderates, Democrat moderates, we’re gonna have a chance to work together, with a agenda that can actually get accomplished. And sometimes in the past, we’ve overreached in our party, and that’s come back to bite us.

[...]

David Trone (2:43) - Well, as I might have noticed, like most folks have noticed, the January 6 Committee, we invited Republicans to be on. They made it crystal clear they didn’t want to be on. And we have two Republicans, both Kinzinger and Liz Cheney on the committee. And it’s been I think, believe, very, very balanced. I’m a moderate, and I’m looking for balance. We’re not looking to score political points. We want to put people over politics every day. And we need oversight. But we don’t need politics, American people are just sick and tired of it.

1) Opposing anti-Semitic hate groups like BDS =/= not being progressive
2) The Intercept is about as credible a source as Newsmax.  That said, the prohibition thing is obviously moronic if it’s actually true and not fake news.
3) Performative virtue signaling votes are not major issues.  Ted Lieu and Ruben Gallego voted for the anti-socialism resolution too, I guess that means they’re DINOs too
4) Unaware of the quote on the website.  Don’t love that (to put it mildly), but still not an actual major issue where he’s actually voted against progressive policies.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base.  

Jawano said he'd drop out and run for the House if Raskin runs

I was referring to Trone, not Jawano.  I don’t think Jawano has a path to victory in the Senate primary.  Trone and Alsobrooks both seem like solid mainstream progressives.  I’d be happy with either at this point, although I’d probably vote for Alsobrooks if I lived in Maryland.

Trone "progressive"!? That's a laugh.

On what major issues isn’t he a mainstream progressive?  Please cite with examples of specific policy positions.

Israel, (interest-conflicted) regulation, & no less an entity than socialism itself. What "mainstream progressive" is also a New Dem Problem Solver who not only hired a veteran Capitol Hill staffer with a specific reputation for serving moderate-leaning Blue Dog congressmen to be his Chief of Staff, but whose own website can literally be publicly quoted as follows?:

Steve Scully (0:14) - Let me begin with what the new Congress will look like, you will be now in the minority but a very narrow minority for the Democrats, the Republicans only, what a four-seat majority in 2023. So how’s that going to affect the leadership? If he becomes speaker? Kevin McCarthy. And where does that put moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans like you?

David Trone (0:36) - Well, I think it puts, if Kevin McCarthy can get the votes needed, 218 requisite votes needed, which, as we all know, he’s certainly struggling right now with some Freedom Caucus members who are not cooperating. But once he does that, and I think he will, I think the moderates are going to clearly be in a good spot, Republican moderates, Democrat moderates, we’re gonna have a chance to work together, with a agenda that can actually get accomplished. And sometimes in the past, we’ve overreached in our party, and that’s come back to bite us.

[...]

David Trone (2:43) - Well, as I might have noticed, like most folks have noticed, the January 6 Committee, we invited Republicans to be on. They made it crystal clear they didn’t want to be on. And we have two Republicans, both Kinzinger and Liz Cheney on the committee. And it’s been I think, believe, very, very balanced. I’m a moderate, and I’m looking for balance. We’re not looking to score political points. We want to put people over politics every day. And we need oversight. But we don’t need politics, American people are just sick and tired of it.

1) Opposing anti-Semitic hate groups like BDS =/= not being progressive
2) The Intercept is about as credible a source as Newsmax.  That said, the prohibition thing is obviously moronic if it’s actually true and not fake news.
3) Performative virtue signaling votes are not major issues
4) Unaware of the quote on the website.  Don’t love that (to put it mildly), but still not an actual major issue where he’s actually voted against progressive policies.

1. Tell that to no less of a mainstream progressive organization than the ACLU. BDS &, y'know, Israel & Palestine are pretty complicated topics; just flat-out ruling it anti-Semitic hate like you've just done isn't exactly progressive nor is it, incidentally, particularly Jewish (we're literally religiously taught to be critical & to not accept something blindly for the sake thereof), & I say those things as both a center-leftist &, y'know, as a Jew (who's thus not exactly crazy about anti-Semites!). FWIW, my take is that BDS is pretty clearly not inherently anti-Semitic as a concept for the same reason that not all criticism of the Israeli gov't. is inherently anti-Semitic (or else you & I have some Conversations to start having about Bibi), esp. if the endgame like some center left-to-leftist 2-staters such as myself's would be is just hopefully crossing fingers for outta-nowhere Sharon-style unilateral disengagement a-la de Klerk reversing Botha, but can & has definitely been used as a cover for anti-Semitism in exactly the same way that criticisms of the Israeli gov't. has been.

2. See for yourself (fun fact: the case is literally the only article listed under "See also" on the Trone-owned Total Wine & More's wiki page; incidentally, it's a great store with a great selection & I love shopping there, lol, Trone's still a mod tho)

3. "Performative virtue signaling votes" is literally AZ's Senior Senator rn, pretty major issue! (Getting ahead of you here, that was just a quip; no, Trone isn't Sinema 2.0, but that's not the progressive bar.)

4. To say nothing of the CoS also being something not to love, too, but thankfully it's not like the Senate has recently experienced a high-profile saga involving a CoS purportedly serving as a shadow Senator...

I couldn’t care less what the ACLU thinks about BDS.  Speaking as a Jewish-American who considers Netanyahu an irredeemable, corrupt, racist, fascistic aspiring dictator and as someone who supports a two state solution, I’d argue BDS is pretty clearly a hate group animated largely by anti-Semitism.  So we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.  
____________________
Edit: Setting aside the issue itself, your torrent of incredibly condescending comments was unnecessary and frankly, pretty obnoxious.  Also, I didn’t blatantly misrepresent your views with obvious bad-faith straw men.  Kindly show me the same courtesy.
__________________
All I could find about his CoS is that he previously worked for Chris Pappas and Joe Cunningham.  Maybe he sucks for some other reason, but the guy’s prior congressional employment doesn’t bother me.  

However, Total Wine’s nonsense about the 21st amendment is moronic.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base.  

Jawano said he'd drop out and run for the House if Raskin runs

I was referring to Trone, not Jawano.  I don’t think Jawano has a path to victory in the Senate primary.  Trone and Alsobrooks both seem like solid mainstream progressives.  I’d be happy with either at this point, although I’d probably vote for Alsobrooks if I lived in Maryland.

Trone "progressive"!? That's a laugh.

On what major issues isn’t he a mainstream progressive?  Please cite with examples of specific policy positions.

Israel, (interest-conflicted) regulation, & no less an entity than socialism itself. What "mainstream progressive" is also a New Dem Problem Solver who not only hired a veteran Capitol Hill staffer with a specific reputation for serving moderate-leaning Blue Dog congressmen to be his Chief of Staff, but whose own website can literally be publicly quoted as follows?:

Steve Scully (0:14) - Let me begin with what the new Congress will look like, you will be now in the minority but a very narrow minority for the Democrats, the Republicans only, what a four-seat majority in 2023. So how’s that going to affect the leadership? If he becomes speaker? Kevin McCarthy. And where does that put moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans like you?

David Trone (0:36) - Well, I think it puts, if Kevin McCarthy can get the votes needed, 218 requisite votes needed, which, as we all know, he’s certainly struggling right now with some Freedom Caucus members who are not cooperating. But once he does that, and I think he will, I think the moderates are going to clearly be in a good spot, Republican moderates, Democrat moderates, we’re gonna have a chance to work together, with a agenda that can actually get accomplished. And sometimes in the past, we’ve overreached in our party, and that’s come back to bite us.

[...]

David Trone (2:43) - Well, as I might have noticed, like most folks have noticed, the January 6 Committee, we invited Republicans to be on. They made it crystal clear they didn’t want to be on. And we have two Republicans, both Kinzinger and Liz Cheney on the committee. And it’s been I think, believe, very, very balanced. I’m a moderate, and I’m looking for balance. We’re not looking to score political points. We want to put people over politics every day. And we need oversight. But we don’t need politics, American people are just sick and tired of it.

1) Opposing anti-Semitic hate groups like BDS =/= not being progressive
2) The Intercept is about as credible a source as Newsmax.  That said, the prohibition thing is obviously moronic if it’s actually true and not fake news.
3) Performative virtue signaling votes are not major issues
4) Unaware of the quote on the website.  Don’t love that (to put it mildly), but still not an actual major issue where he’s actually voted against progressive policies.

Snip

EDIT:

Ted Lieu and Ruben Gallego voted for the anti-socialism resolution too, I guess that means they’re DINOs too

Yes, all 263 Democrats in Washington should be chad Lizzie Fletcher clones, except for the Maryland delegation, which should just be alternating clones of Raskin, Mfume, freakin' Sarbanes, & God (formerly known as Steny Hoyer)

Are you okay?  Sorry for the double post, but I literally can’t tell what you’re even talking about with this bit.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

I don’t think that means a whole lot.  Shontel Brown is a member of the New Democrat and Progressive Caucuses, for example.  These Caucus memberships are little more than empty virtue-signaling imo.  I care far more about how folks actually vote rather than branding.  In any case, as I’ve said, I’d prefer Alsobrooks.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

I don’t think that means a whole lot.  Shontel Brown is a member of the New Democrat and Progressive Caucuses, for example.  These Caucus memberships are little more than empty virtue-signaling imo.  I care far more about how folks actually vote rather than branding.  In any case, as I’ve said, I’d prefer Alsobrooks.

Trone still isn't a member of the Progressive Caucus even for "virtue-signaling" reasons, though, and he hasn't supported mainstream progressive policies like Medicare For All (which Brown cosponsored in the last Congress). Trone isn't really a progressive in any meaningful sense, and he has never branded himself as such.

I didn’t know he opposes Medicare for all.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

That's like saying former Congressman Ike Skelton (MO-04, 1977-2011) wasn't really a moderate Democrat because he never joined the Blue Dog group.

Sure, but Trone still hasn't identified with progressives as a member of the House and doesn't support signature policies that the progressive wing of the party in Congress endorses (putting caucus membership aside). He is not a progressive, period.

I assume what Mr. X meant was that Trone votes the Democratic party line on most major issues, but that is not the same thing as being progressive or championing progressive policies. It may seem like a small point, but many of us on the progressive left would find that equivalence pretty ignorant.

I meant that from what I knew of him, he struck me as a generic progressive/liberal backbencher who could generally be safely relied upon to vote for progressive policies.  However, the more I’ve learned about him, the less inclined I am to stick by that initial assessment.  I don’t think he’s some ConservaDem DINO nor do I think opposing a hate group like BDS disqualifies someone from being a progressive (as BruceJoel suggested), but I will concede that my initial assessment of him appears to have been incorrect.  I never claimed to be an expert on the man

In any case, all the more reason to support Alsobrooks (whom I’ve consistently indicated would be preferable imo).  I still hope Raskin doesn’t run because while I’d far prefer him to Alsobrooks, I don’t think he has a path to victory with another major Montgomery County candidate in the race.  It’d suck to lose him, especially when he’s in line to chair the House Oversight Committee whenever the House flips.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Titanium Safe D -> Titanium Safe D

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

[https://twitter.com/AlsobrooksForMD/status/1757009620755689659?t=dc6XJWHppfy43SO...

This is Alsobrooks's first ad, as weird as that sounds.  Did Hogan entering the race light a fire under her campaign to get this out ahead of schedule,  or did she always intend to start now rather than closer to the primary as it initially seemed?Only her campaign can say.

There's putting political opponents' faces on your ads, and then there's putting every single Senate Republican's face on there lol

Hopefully that race-baiter loses to Trone

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I imagine Hogan would rather run against Alsobrooks than Trone but I don’t know enough about her or about Maryland swing voters to say for sure.

I read a single Politico article on the situation so I'm now basically an expert. Gonna go out on a limb and declare this race only lean D if Alsobrooks wins the D nomination, moving to lean R if Hogan can capture some moderate Murkowski energy instead of seeming as much of a generic R as he has been.

There is no reason aside from Trone’s self-funding to assume Alsobrooks is weaker than Trone. Alsobrooks does not present like a #Squad member at all if that’s the insinuation. She’s very much part of the Dem establishment.

She’s not a squad member, but she ran a pretty gross anti-white race-baiting ad.  And more importantly, she’s run a pretty incompetent campaign so far.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It would also be asshaty of Trone to not give Alsobrooks a decent chunk of money if he looses. Not saying he has to open the vaults but he’d look like a sore loser if he keeps his wallet closed.

Why should he?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It would also be asshaty of Trone to not give Alsobrooks a decent chunk of money if he looses. Not saying he has to open the vaults but he’d look like a sore loser if he keeps his wallet closed.

Why should he?

Well, presumably he’s a Democrat…

The state party heavily put its finger on the scale for his opponent and frankly it is his money.  He doesn’t owe Alsobrooks anything.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It would also be asshaty of Trone to not give Alsobrooks a decent chunk of money if he looses. Not saying he has to open the vaults but he’d look like a sore loser if he keeps his wallet closed.

Why should he?

Well, presumably he’s a Democrat…

The state party heavily put its finger on the scale for his opponent and frankly it is his money.  He doesn’t owe Alsobrooks anything.

He’s financed plenty of races across the country, to turn up his nose cause he lost an election is just a bad look, but for him it would make it hard to get support if he ever wants to run for office again.

People don’t like sore losers

No one will care.  If I were him, I certainly wouldn’t spend one red cent to help Alsobrooks if she won the primary.  Obviously, he should still endorse her, but it seems extremely entitled to demand he spend his own money to finance the campaign of the person who beat him in a primary earlier that year if he doesn't want to do so.  At the end of the day, it’s Trone’s money.  In any case, Trone is currently more likely than Alsobrooks to be the nominee, so this may all be moot.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Why does this race have to be between a racist-stupid politician with immoral business sense, a negligent-stupid politician with vapid positions, and a smart woman with about as much name recognition among the general public as Dave Leip? WHY? Can we please drag some random shop attendant or trash collector off the street and ask them to run?

Trone is not a racist

He very clearly misspoke.