Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[Pericles]

The political system really is rigged folks, even though the election results aren't.

[Suburbia]

ING BOOM ING NUT

https://twitter.com/marianne_levine/status/1439737579029598209

Progressives will whine but immigration reform is not budgetary and really not something done with reconciliation.

[Suburbia]

What I fear is that Manchin and Sinema will make it be bad to be a moderate or a centrist and moderates will be further wiped out in both parties.

This is why I am a true blue Independent voter with no party affiliation....

[Matty]

Sinema is asking for a primary

The Arizona Democratic base isn’t exactly moderate either

A charismatic challenger could make noise

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I kind of wonder if this isn’t just a favor to Rice and Schrader (in theory Peters too, but California voters decided to make their politician unprimariable because something something both sides)

The prescription drug portion is both overwhelmingly popular in a way very few things are and represent significant savings (if we needed any other confirmation that ‘fiscal responsibility’ isn’t about budgets at all, it’s code for donor service). There is literally no political upside to opposing it if you are a democrat.

The more likely explanation, like for most her off brand boss hog soulmate’s positions, is that she has real idea what’s she’s doing but wants to seen being tough, so she randomly obstructs Democratic policy.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

ING BOOM ING NUT

https://twitter.com/marianne_levine/status/1439737579029598209

Progressives will whine but immigration reform is not budgetary and really not something done with reconciliation.

Reconciliation is just a kludge to get around arbitrary Senate rules that have otherwise effectively paralyzed Congress. It’s silly to argue over what should be a matter for reconciliation, because regular order shouldn’t include a libelum veto.

I mean, strictly on the semantics of parliamentary procedure she’s right, but this is an arbitrary procedure that only exists because parliamentary rules are broken.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Unelected Senate parliamentarians that you could fire but won't are the best scapegoats.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

What I fear is that Manchin and Sinema will make it be bad to be a moderate or a centrist and moderates will be further wiped out in both parties.

This is why I am a true blue Independent voter with no party affiliation....

Yes it would be most terrible if we didn’t have a bizzaro version of plebeian tribunes that intercedes on behalf of patrician interests.

 

[Pres Mike]

All my life, I have heard "Nothing will change, regardless who is in Washington". I have also heard "Voting doesn't really matter"

Me, being the nerdy and politically active highschool/college student and than high school civics teacher, would always argue. Elections matter. Elections have consquences.

But now, I kinda understand that point of view. Because of dumbs rules like the filibuster and poitnless rulings from the senate parlimentarian, nothing important is being done.

The biggest things I hoped from a Democratic trifecta were...

-Immigration reform
-Public Option
-15,000 tax credit for first time home owners
-Ban gerrymandering
-Increase teacher pay

Looks like none of that is going to happen. And the B tier I want like Medicaid expansion, paid leave, Pre-K, EBT increase may be watered down so much

[emailking]

Don't blame the parliamentarian. The ruling is perfectly sensible and it's her job to decide it objectively. The problem is the procedural filibuster which leads us to try and jam all this non budgetary stuff into reconciliation.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Immigration can't be used in Reconciliation is the best news I heard all day, the problem is the Filibuster not the Reconciliation Bill


Where is Brucejoel he was so into immigration reform

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

All my life, I have heard "Nothing will change, regardless who is in Washington". I have also heard "Voting doesn't really matter"

Me, being the nerdy and politically active highschool/college student and than high school civics teacher, would always argue. Elections matter. Elections have consquences.

But now, I kinda understand that point of view. Because of dumbs rules like the filibuster and poitnless rulings from the senate parlimentarian, nothing important is being done.

The biggest things I hoped from a Democratic trifecta were...

-Immigration reform
-Public Option
-15,000 tax credit for first time home owners
-Ban gerrymandering
-Increase teacher pay

Looks like none of that is going to happen. And the B tier I want like Medicaid expansion, paid leave, Pre-K, EBT increase may be watered down so much

Immigration reform is overrated all of Latinos and Asians during Clinton and Bush W jumped over good citizens to get section 8 vouchers due to Dreamers, the more kids you have the easiest to get section 8
Ion share of Afro Americans don't want Immigration reform

So much for immigration reform

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Also, even if you work part time, you qualify for Medicaid, I worked Part time I qualified for Medicaid no need for Public option either if you are unemployment or homeless too you get Medicaid

[free my dawg]

Sinema should be expelled from the caucus if we lose. She's no different from Paul Ryan - use the ladder to get rich and pull the ladder up once she gets to the top.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Sinema should be expelled from the caucus if we lose. She's no different from Paul Ryan - use the ladder to get rich and pull the ladder up once she gets to the top.

It's most likely gonna be an RH and  DS 52/48 anyways, Biden isn't expelling Sinema and he needs her to win AZ in 2024/ Obama with RH 2012/

That's why he appointed Cindy McCain to Ambassador, The ruling against Amnesty makes it that tough to get thru R Gerrymandering in the H

But, in a Pandemic, Biden stopped enforcement of the Border wall anyways, Harris was supposed to do it and she didn't

[roxas11]

https://twitter.com/HansNichols/status/1439691939079770118

This is ****ing ridiculous

Again, I simply do not understand why any Dem in their right mind thinks this is a good idea. Especially after seeing what happened to Obama in 2009 when The Dems also decided to delay passing Affordable Care Act until 2010 and we all know how things played out by the end of that same year....

Joe Manchin idiotic plan will not only kill the reconciliation bill it will also kill the bipartisan bill that he claims he wants to pass. Moderate Dems is fooling themselves if they think doing something like this this is actually good for their party. Kyrsten Sinema especially needs a wake up call because if she thinks that helping to further weaken the president of her party is a good idea then she needs look at what happened to all those blue dog Dems who actually believed that voters were going to reward them for voting against Obamacare in 2010 lol

They still ended up getting wiped out during those midterms and make no mistake, if kyrsten sinema and other moderate Dems ends up killing Biden's agenda than they will suffer the same fate

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://twitter.com/HansNichols/status/1439691939079770118

This is ****ing ridiculous

Again, I simply do not understand why any Dem in their right mind thinks this is a good idea. Especially after seeing what happened to Obama in 2009 when The Dems also decided to delay passing Affordable Care Act until 2010 and we all know how things played out by the end of that same year....

Joe Manchin idiotic plan will not only kill the reconciliation bill it will also kill the bipartisan bill that he claims he wants to pass. Moderate Dems is fooling themselves if they think doing something like this this is actually good for their party. Kyrsten Sinema especially needs a wake up call because if she thinks that helping to further weaken the president of her party is a good idea then she needs look at what happened to all those blue dog Dems who actually believed that voters were going to reward them for voting against Obamacare in 2010 lol

They still ended getting wiped out during those midterms and make no mistake, if kyrsten sinema and other moderate Dems ends up killing Biden's agenda than they will suffer the same fate

.
D's aren't gonna lose the Senate, D's lead in every 304 state aside from NV and and NH and those states will comeback to us but the House and the defeat of immigration reform is most likely to flip R since Biden can't defend the Border wall and gerrymandering

It's most likely an RH and 52/48S, our DGovs WI, MI and PA should be Reelected, Shapiro, Whitmer and Evers, SISOLAK, Hobbs etc defend the blue Wall

Obama got Reelected in 2012 with an RH, so can Biden in 2024

[MT Treasurer]

Joe Manchin is a brave man, a good man.

Country over party, people.

remember that.

country over party

manchin cares about fiscal health. He is looking at the inflation charts.

It almost makes me tear up thinking of his profile in courage right now.

It also almost makes me tear up realizing how many people (like you) still get conned by Manchin's act.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The immigration reform being dropped from Reconciliation has more of a devestating impact than Manchin not siding with D's on 3.5T, it was to get thru the R gerrymandering of districts in R FL and TX, without VR, it's almost impossible for D's to get thru the House Elections and win the H

It was a chance that Manchin would eventually side with D's on a lesser amount in the Final bill

But, Biden didn't secure the border when he needed to and now illegals have no pathway to citizenship without going thru normal channeks

Letting illegals get a free pathway to citizenship by jumping over others, ridiculous

Just like immigrants hopped over people to get Section 8 vouchers because they had Dreamer kids, right

Immigrant activist was so glad Biden became Prez, not they don't have that anymore

[Hope For A New Era]

It also almost makes me tear up realizing how many people (like you) still get conned by Manchin's act.

You're the one conning yourself. There's no act. That much has been made clear.


At this point we might as well swear in Gallagher and get it over with.

[UncleSam]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

[Torie]

Insane or not, this article claims that Biden told Manchin that the infrastructure bill is being held hostage to reconciliation. Are the Dems really prepared to let both die, if they don't get both?

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/19/kyrsten-sinema-biden-drug-pricing-prescription-plan-512907

I know what I would have told Biden right then and there if I were Manchin. In that case, Mr. President, I will cease my discussions on reconciliation unless and until the infrastructure bill is passed, and if that is not possible, to pass infrastructure on a stand alone basis, you should consider that both bills are dead. Nice to see you again Mr. President.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

[UncleSam]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

LMFAO you’re so delusional

You actually think that the 3.5T was in any way connected to the bipartisan negotiations. That’s amazing.

The entire point of the bipartisan deal was to show that Biden could work with congressional Rs. Ds tanking it only reflects poorly on Ds but if the hard left wants to throw a hissy fit to spite the rest of the party then it can most likely do so successfully.

The only result will be fewer moderate Ds and more hardcore Rs masquerading as centrists representing swing districts come 2023. Personally I prefer the former but the hard left is consistently delusional so why bother trying to explain basic game theory.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

LMFAO you’re so delusional

You actually think that the 3.5T was in any way connected to the bipartisan negotiations. That’s amazing.

The entire point of the bipartisan deal was to show that Biden could work with congressional Rs. Ds tanking it only reflects poorly on Ds but if the hard left wants to throw a hissy fit to spite the rest of the party then it can most likely do so successfully.

The only result will be fewer moderate Ds and more hardcore Rs masquerading as centrists representing swing districts come 2023. Personally I prefer the former but the hard left is consistently delusional so why bother trying to explain basic game theory.

Believe what you want, but the idea that the bills weren’t joined at the hip from day one is blatantly ridiculous.