Biden infrastructure/tax increase megathread

[roxas11]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

LMFAO you’re so delusional

You actually think that the 3.5T was in any way connected to the bipartisan negotiations. That’s amazing.

The entire point of the bipartisan deal was to show that Biden could work with congressional Rs. Ds tanking it only reflects poorly on Ds but if the hard left wants to throw a hissy fit to spite the rest of the party then it can most likely do so successfully.

The only result will be fewer moderate Ds and more hardcore Rs masquerading as centrists representing swing districts come 2023. Personally I prefer the former but the hard left is consistently delusional so why bother trying to explain basic game theory.

You are naive if honesty believe that there is no connection between these two bills.

Also the fact that Kevin McCarthy has still yet come out in favor of a bipartisan bill that even Mitch McConnell voted for should be a huge warning sign to moderate Dems who think they can pass the bill without progressive Dem support. Not a single Republican in the House voted for the $1.9 trillion COVID-19 relief packages yet moderate Dems think there are enough so called centrist Republicans who will help them pass the bipartisan deal

Lets be very clear about this McCarthy and most house republicans are going to vote against the bipartisan bill. Anybody who actually thinks that there are enough Republicans in the house who are willing to defy Trump and vote for it anyway, just to masquerade as a centrist representing swing districts in 2023 is going to be in for a very rude awakening.

As far as I'm concerned moderate Dems are the ones who are delusional for thinking that Kevin McCarthy of all people is going to come to their rescue if the progressive Dems don't vote for the bipartisan bill

[wbrocks67]

This is all getting exhausting. If Ds actually want to have a chance at winning next year, they need to get their sh**t together and just pass this sh**t.

[Cyrusman]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

Most democrats don’t give a rats ass about new bridges, roads, tunnels, and broadband Internet? That’s pretty unfortunate

[roxas11]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

Most democrats don’t give a rats ass about new bridges, roads, tunnels, and broadband Internet? That’s pretty unfortunate

I dont know about Most democrats but I do care about new bridges, roads, tunnels, broadband and if moderate democrats acually had the votes to get it done than I would be supporting them right about now.

but as things currently stand they don't have the votes without progressive Dems and I am simply not convinced that the house GOP is going to actually help them pass the bipartisan bill if the progressive Dems don't vote for it

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Leader McConnell said Rs are gonna let US Default on Debt Ceiling, a 4.7T spending packing isn't gonna pass unless the Debt Ceiling isn't raised

[henster]

The House reconciliation bill may not even be ready to vote on next week, they haven’t even added in the SALT cap removal and the CBO hasn’t even scored portions of the bill. The bigger issue is the Senate hasn’t even begun work on their version of the reconciliation bill. The progressives demand is the House and Senate vote on a reconciliation bill on 27th or they kill the infrastructure bill. Neither is happening especially on the Senate side, I think the progs are being the most unreasonable here.

[roxas11]

Leader McConnell said Rs are gonna let US Default on Debt Ceiling, a 4.7T spending packing isn't gonna pass unless the s Debt Ceiling isn't raised

Well if that is the case it looks like McConnell plan is already failing      

Since Democrats just announced that their plan for the debt limit will also include relief money for a recent string of natural disasters

This breaking news even forced Sen. John Kennedy, R-La so say that he is now inclined to back the funding bill for the debt ceiling because it includes “critical” relief funding for his state, which was recently battered by Hurricane Ida.

You know things are not going well for Mitch McConnell and the GOP when somebody as far to the right as John Kennedy of Louisiana is now saying he is going to vote with the Dems to Raise the Debt Ceiling

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Let's wait until a Debt Ceiling increase has actually passed they were supposed to pass it in July and the Treasury had to use extraordinary measures to extend the deadline 3 mnths

[emailking]

The House reconciliation bill may not even be ready to vote on next week, they haven’t even added in the SALT cap removal and the CBO hasn’t even scored portions of the bill. The bigger issue is the Senate hasn’t even begun work on their version of the reconciliation bill. The progressives demand is the House and Senate vote on a reconciliation bill on 27th or they kill the infrastructure bill. Neither is happening especially on the Senate side, I think the progs are being the most unreasonable here.

Or the moderates were for insisting on a hard deadline to vote on the infrastructure bill whether or not the companion bill was ready.

[henster]

The progressives are seriously overestimating their leverage over moderates and Manchin. I think Manchin and Sinema are perfectly content with nothing passing at all if the progressives sink the infrastructure bill. The progressives clearly value the reconciliation bill more than the moderates value the infrastructure bill so obviously the stakes are not even.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

The House reconciliation bill may not even be ready to vote on next week, they haven’t even added in the SALT cap removal and the CBO hasn’t even scored portions of the bill. The bigger issue is the Senate hasn’t even begun work on their version of the reconciliation bill. The progressives demand is the House and Senate vote on a reconciliation bill on 27th or they kill the infrastructure bill. Neither is happening especially on the Senate side, I think the progs are being the most unreasonable here.

The September deadline was forced on everyone by the Lieberman caucus.  The selective amnesia on things that happened less than a month ago and were covered in this very thread makes me assume that posters aren't discussing this in good faith and just want to reflexively punch left.   

[roxas11]

The progressives are seriously overestimating their leverage over moderates and Manchin. I think Manchin and Sinema are perfectly content with nothing passing at all if the progressives sink the infrastructure bill. The progressives clearly value the reconciliation bill more than the moderates value the infrastructure bill so obviously the stakes are not even.

I agree that may be very well but the case for someone like Manchin since he is in a very red state but I dont feel that way about Sinema at all

She is up for reelection and its clear that she definitely wants that bipartisan bill that she worked on to pass. She may pretend to be as right wing as Manchin, but ultimately I don't for 1 second believe that she wants to go into 2022 telling her voters that she failed to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Manchin isn't the only problem did you hear Sinema on the View she will never get rid rid of Filibuster in a million yrs, if D's ever get back in the minority, if you look at Biden Approvals now, they can be in the Minority before 2024/ try 2022/ losing in 2022 and the Ds need the Filibuster in the Minority
.Sinema agrees with Manchin on everything

Biden allowing the Taliban to takeover and then he throws it off and said we should get fveneed the war anyways

I am not saying D's are gonna lose, but Covid will dictate the Election not Biden and Rs can takeover both Houses since Biden didn't Eradicate Covid and Prosecute Trump that he said he would do

D's did not expect Covid to last well into the Midterms they expected Covid over when everyone got vaccinated

Biden said I'd we elected him we would be out of masks and we still in them, what a disappointment

[henster]

The progressives are seriously overestimating their leverage over moderates and Manchin. I think Manchin and Sinema are perfectly content with nothing passing at all if the progressives sink the infrastructure bill. The progressives clearly value the reconciliation bill more than the moderates value the infrastructure bill so obviously the stakes are not even.

I agree that may be very well but the case for someone like Manchin since he is in a very red state but I dont feel that way about Sinema at all

She is up for reelection and its clear that she definitely wants that bipartisan bill that she worked on to pass. She may pretend to be as right wing as Manchin, but ultimately I don't for 1 second believe that she wants to go into 2022 telling her voters that she failed to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill

Well if she were actually up in 2022 and not in 2024 then she’d probably be acting a lot differently. She doesn’t have to answer to voters until 3 years from now. Right now she’s arrogant and living in the glow of her 2018 win thinking she’s an Arizona institution and some electoral juggernaut.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

If D's wind up in the the Minority in 2023/25 they might need the Filibuster, it's ironic that D's are pressing so hard to End the Filibuster and due to Biden Approvals after he gotten Taliban back in control might wind them up in the Minority

D's weren't supposed to lose in 2014/ I have the map to prove it Landrieu, Pryor, whom had Beebe leading, Michelle Nunn were all leading and a weekend before the Election it fell apart, D's aren't a shoe in anymore after AFGHANISTAN to win 2022

Biden is now at 39% in MI

[emailking]

The progressives are seriously overestimating their leverage over moderates and Manchin. I think Manchin and Sinema are perfectly content with nothing passing at all if the progressives sink the infrastructure bill. The progressives clearly value the reconciliation bill more than the moderates value the infrastructure bill so obviously the stakes are not even.

There's no harm done in stringing it along though to see if they can be moved at all. If not, oh well. They can pass the infrastructure bill in the House anytime in the next 15 months.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I've noticed Brucejoel since Immigration reform has been struck down, he wanted Immigration reform along with Prez Johnson has been missing on this thread, he loved this thread

D's promise to appeal but it's probably not gonna work

[henster]

The progressives are seriously overestimating their leverage over moderates and Manchin. I think Manchin and Sinema are perfectly content with nothing passing at all if the progressives sink the infrastructure bill. The progressives clearly value the reconciliation bill more than the moderates value the infrastructure bill so obviously the stakes are not even.

There's no harm done in stringing it along though to see if they can be moved at all. If not, oh well. They can pass the infrastructure bill in the House anytime in the next 15 months.

The infrastructure bill includes funding for the Highway Trust Fund which runs out of money on 10/1. A bunch of federal highway projects shut down if it doesn’t pass and funding lapses. It can’t be strung out for months, this is part of the reason the moderates wanting it voted on ASAP.

[emailking]

Ok yes there is harm done in that sense but the entire bill is much bigger than those things, which could be passed separately. But I am skeptical that's why moderates want it passed. I think they want it passed so it's out of the way and they don't have to negotiate upwards on the reconciliation.

[Hindsight was 2020]

The progressives are seriously overestimating their leverage over moderates and Manchin. I think Manchin and Sinema are perfectly content with nothing passing at all if the progressives sink the infrastructure bill. The progressives clearly value the reconciliation bill more than the moderates value the infrastructure bill so obviously the stakes are not even.

There's no harm done in stringing it along though to see if they can be moved at all. If not, oh well. They can pass the infrastructure bill in the House anytime in the next 15 months.

The infrastructure bill includes funding for the Highway Trust Fund which runs out of money on 10/1. A bunch of federal highway projects shut down if it doesn’t pass and funding lapses. It can’t be strung out for months, this is part of the reason the moderates wanting it voted on ASAP.

Then Manchin and Sinema needed to stop being douchebags and pass the reconciliation bill

[free my dawg]

If the election was between Phil Scott and Kyrsten Sinema, catch me at the frat house voting Republican.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://news.yahoo.com/fears-us-government-shutdown-debt-080030551.html

4.7T package won't pass without Debt Ceiling increase and Pelosi won't put it into the budget only Kennedy with Sid to LA is gonna vote for Debt Ceiling increase 9 votes short, because without Reconciliation, it's subject to Filibuster, D's have the votes in H

Either Manchin n and Sinema told her not to or she doesn't have the votes in the H either to support Debt Ceiling in Reconciliation, otherwise she would have done it.

They say child tax credits would be delayed and Govt employees would be furl, again since 2019, for up to 30 days there won't be a Govt shutdown longer.

Where is Cookie Damage or Brucejoel this is their thread, they disappeared when Stimulus apparently won't pass or Immigration reform denied

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I mean the notion that a bipartisan agreement is held hostage by a partisan Bill is insane.

If Ds scuttle their own legislation they agreed to with Rs that kind of kills Biden’s only significant accomplishment since taking office. Everything else about his presidency has been more or less a disaster outside of a few executive orders reversing Trump’s prior odious ones.

As soon as Pelosi declared they were gonna hold the bipartisan Bill hostage Biden should’ve stepped in and put an end to it. The bill could’ve gotten majority support without a single progressive caucus vote at that point, which is in fact the entire point of a compromise deal in the first place - you get chunks of both sides to agree on something, and the more extreme elements of both hate it.

Biden will just continue slipping and slipping right up to the midterms if they can’t pass something that supposedly everybody agreed to. As for the 3.5T bill - that should’ve been an obvious non-starter from the get-go. They never should’ve even announced a bill publicly without getting Manchin and Sinema’s signoff first, and if that means cutting it to 1.5T (which is still a massive bill) then so be it. At least you get something done and can take aim at the other issues you would’ve addressed with the remaining 2T.

Dems are in a rough spot now and I don’t see them getting out of the corner anytime soon. At this point the midterm season is gonna roll around with no significant legislation passed.

Most Democrats don’t give a rat’s *** about Sinemanchin’s pet pile of crap, we don’t care if it gets tanked if we’re not getting what we were promised anyway.  The deal was that Sinemanchin got their dumb little piece of crap and non-DINOs get the 3.5 trillion reconciliation bill.  That was the compromise and without it, there’s no reason to give Sinemanchin a win.  They’ve acted in bad faith toward congressional Democrats at every turn and are far more interested in accommodating scumbags like Collins and Portman than they are in working with actual Democrats.  

Most democrats don’t give a rats ass about new bridges, roads, tunnels, and broadband Internet? That’s pretty unfortunate

I dont know about Most democrats but I do care about new bridges, roads, tunnels, broadband and if moderate democrats acually had the votes to get it done than I would be supporting them right about now.

but as things currently stand they don't have the votes without progressive Dems and I am simply not convinced that the house GOP is going to actually help them pass the bipartisan bill if the progressive Dems don't vote for it

I should’ve been more clear, I mean most don’t give a rat’s *** about the mess of an infrastructure bill that made it through the Senate, especially relative to the reconciliation bill.  The reconciliation bill is a far higher priority.  Better infrastructure legislation or even a bill with some meaningful progressive input/without Sinemanchin doing everything in their power throughout the process to the thumb their noses at progressives would likely generate a bit more enthusiasm.  The bill that got through the Senate could’ve and should’ve been a lot better.

[Torie]

I appreciate that posters have different priorities and agendas on all of this, but a couple of things.

The Sept 27 deadline date came to be in order for the Dems to round up enough votes to win the procedural vote to start the reconciliation process in the first instance, because some "rogue" Dems were insisting on a vote on the infrastructure bill on a stand alone basis. The Sept 27 thing was the finesse. Let us get going on reconciliation and you agree to a delay on the infrastructure bill until Sept 27, at which time, reconciliation bill or no, you get your vote on the infrastructure bill.

How will it work out politically for the Dems if they kill the infrastructure bill because they did not get their way on reconciliation? Is that really a creditable threat for them to make vis a vis the "rogue Dem" caucus? That seems like a bluff to me, and if the Dems really go there, I think the rogue Dems will call it.

We shall see. I see on my screen "Sept 21" (how time flies), so six more days to go - until this coming Monday! I guess the only people playing on the congressional golf course this weekend will be Pubs.

Addendum: Things seem to be devolving into a clown car smash up for the Dems.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/21/democrats-biden-domestic-agenda-implode-513218

Who is in charge over there anyway? Yeah, I know, nobody. That's why so many folks are rushing to the microphones to say what seem to me to be rather unwise and foolish things. If someone were in charge, they would all be told to shut up.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

I appreciate that posters have different priorities and agendas on all of this, but a couple of things.

The Sept 27 deadline date came to be in order for the Dems to round up enough votes to win the procedural vote to start the reconciliation process in the first instance, because some "rogue" Dems were insisting on a vote on the infrastructure bill on a stand alone basis. The Sept 27 thing was the finesse. Let us get going on reconciliation and you agree to a delay on the infrastructure bill until Sept 27, at which time, infrastructure or no, you get your vote.

How will it work out politically for the Dems if they kill the infrastructure bill because they did not get their way on reconciliation? Is that really a creditable threat for them to make vis a vis the "rogue Dem" caucus? That seems like a bluff to me, and if the Dems really go there, I think the rogue Dems will call it.

We shall see. I see on my screen "Sept 21" (how time flies), so six more days to go - so until this coming Monday! I guess the only people playing on the congressional golf course this weekend will be Pubs.

There won't be a 4=7T dollar spending Bill unless the Govt is fully funded and Debt Ceiling is increased and Mcconnell said he is set to Fillibuster it