A Living Wage in Dallas County, TX is $12.50 an hour

[DrScholl]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

[lfromnj]

It's amazing how anti-minimum wage the party of the working class is.

Being pro-small business and opposing policies that would cause job losses in many areas of the country is being for the working class

No, it's not. You are for low wages to save wealthy employers money at the expense of low income workers.

Which is why Amazon* checks notes has a company wide 15 dollar minimum wage is lobbying for a nationwide 15 dollar minimum wage.

Im sure its from the bottom of their hearts and not the desire to take on regulations that other companies can't handle.

[DrScholl]

It's amazing how anti-minimum wage the party of the working class is.

Being pro-small business and opposing policies that would cause job losses in many areas of the country is being for the working class

No, it's not. You are for low wages to save wealthy employers money at the expense of low income workers.

Why is why Amazon* checks notes has a company wide 15 dollar minimum wage is lobbying for a nationwide 15 dollar minimum wage.

Im sure its from the bottom of their hearts and not the desire to take on regulations that other companies can't handle.

I don't know what Amazon's reasons are, but I do know that conservatives are anti-wage based on convoluted logic that claims the economy will collapse if there is a minimum wage.

[TheReckoning]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Let's impose a $15 minimum wage on West Virginia! What could possibly go wrong???

[DrScholl]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

[TheReckoning]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

The whole point is that a 15$ minimum wage isn’t necessary to keep people from starving.

[GALeftist]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

$15 an hour is hardly enough to buy a mansion, in many parts of America it's barely enough to live comfortably. Moreover, this is not even necessarily an issue of solely improving the quality of workers' lives. The central question here is a pretty simple one (from the perspective of those in the U.S. government who are pushing for a higher minimum wage): A. do enough people produce more than $15 of value who make less than $15 an hour right now to offset the people who are producing less than $15 an hour whose jobs might be taken away, and B. would you rather give that surplus value to the working class or their bosses? That's really all there is to it, no one is going to eliminate a job that produces more than $15 of value per hour, and people on the left (myself included) believe that most of those jobs do produce more than $15 of value per hour.

Frankly, those business owners should be ecstatic that the worst case scenario is in most cases just reduced profit. Lots of Radical Liberal Socialist Marxist Communist Coastal Elitist Tankies would like to see laborers paid the full value of what their labor produces, and then where would those people be?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

The whole point is that a 15$ minimum wage isn’t necessary to keep people from starving.

Indeed.

[DrScholl]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

The whole point is that a 15$ minimum wage isn’t necessary to keep people from starving.

I don't think you live in the real world. $15 an hour is not wealthy. That money will go to rent and bills, not a mansion.

[TheReckoning]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

The whole point is that a 15$ minimum wage isn’t necessary to keep people from starving.

I don't think you live in the real world. $15 an hour is not wealthy. That money will go to rent and bills, not a mansion.

The whole point is that if you’re requiring people to pay more than what’s required to have the basic necessities, where do you draw the line? 15$ is more than a living wage in most of the US.

[Not Me, Us]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

$15 an hour is hardly enough for a studio apartment. Come on man, do better.

[DrScholl]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

The whole point is that a 15$ minimum wage isn’t necessary to keep people from starving.

I don't think you live in the real world. $15 an hour is not wealthy. That money will go to rent and bills, not a mansion.

The whole point is that if you’re requiring people to pay more than what’s required to have the basic necessities, where do you draw the line? 15$ is more than a living wage in most of the US.

Cost of living rises all the time. Many people pay more than 30% of their income for housing, If you assume a person would be lucky enough to work 8 hours a day for 5 days a week then almost half their income would go toward rent if you apply the national average rent.

[TheReckoning]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

$15 an hour is hardly enough for a studio apartment. Come on man, do better.

Downtown Manhattan? Sure. Raise the minimum wage there.

But in rural Mississippi? Not the same.

[GoTfan]

This whole thread and conservatives saying that a $15 wage in the US shouldn't be paid just illustrates the central flaw with unfettered capitalism that was laid bare with the GameStop fiasco: When you try to make the system fairer in any way, the people who have the attitude of "f**k you, got mine" (which are usually conservatives or libertarians) accuse you of being irresponsible because they've got theirs, so screw everyone else.

Here's a fun fact: the $15 minimum wage is actually a pretty damn moderate proposal, considering that if the US minimum wage had kept pace with inflation, it would be over $20 right now.

The other reason why this is a sound proposal? It's because people being paid minimum or median wage are far more likely to invest it back into the economy than some wealthy hedge fund owner who goes hat in hand to the government asking for a bailout. And even THAT attitude is more than a little disturbing, because someone working a minimum wage job is worth MORE than the value of their cocking labour! Hell, those checks that were SUPPOSED to have been sent out by now? They're not called survival checks, they're called stimulus checks because it's expected that people will spend it on consumer goods, never mind the fact that a lot of people will be using that money to cover their F***ING RENT. What happens then? What happens when those stimulus checks are spent to cover rent and nothing else, huh?

A higher minimum wage lets people buy more s**t. This shouldn't need to be explained.

This is why us social democrats are losing the argument to actual socialists, because when the flaws of the system are laid bare, the attitude of those running the system invariably amounts to "Well everyone else is irresponsible, not me." As they try to deflect any responsibility that they or the system they perpetuate might share in favour of blaming everything on the useless eaters at the bottom rung of society.

A word of warning as well. You know what happens when things go drastically wrong with the system? People turn to radicalism at both ends of the political spectrum for solutions, because the nes in the centre are the ones who caused the problems. You know how the French and Russian Revolutions started? It's because the people at the top didn't care about the people at the bottom, and when the people at the bottom tried to stand up for themselves, they were gunned down in the streets. Then they got fed up and started shooting back.

It's just greed. Pure. F***ing. Greed. And it's making the job of social democrats to sell reform over revolution much, much harder.

[Badger]

not "anticipate" rather just so they can deal with the supposed cataclysmic price increases that conservatives talk about from a minimum wage increase.

any conservative that says there will be "cataclysmic price increases" doesn't know what they're talking about.  Wages are a fraction of the overall price of most things.  Even if they double, the price of a taco at Taco Bell is only going to go up a few percentage points.

The problem with upping the MW to $15/hr in the entire country is the fact that the poorest people in the poorest places WILL.LOSE.THEIR.JOBS.  I understand upper middle class white kids from the coasts don't give a sh**t about those people (and neither do the jerks they vote for), but some of us do.

It's funny that conservatives suddenly care about poor and black people losing their job only when it involves their campaign donors having to increase their wages.

Sorry, but the entire concept of tangible, let alone widespread unemployment occurring because of minimum wage increases just has never borne fruit ever since that argument was trotted out in the 30s. While it's possible there can be some jobs lost around the fringes, at the end of the day if a business owner believes they need six people working for them rather than five, they're going to continue to employ six people when the minimum wage goes up rather than try to run on a skeleton staff they've already independently determined they can't manage with, let alone shut down the business.

At the end of the day, we can't and shouldn't try to reduce the standard of living to $0.50 an hour in order to compete with Guatemala. It's as bad policy economically as it is morally.

[Badger]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Even taking goes very conservative looking figures as to how much typical expenses to survive are at face value, 1250 an hour is even then supposedly only a living wage if one lives alone and doesn't have a family or kids. A single parent has even one child, a livable wage is almost double that pay scale. Hell, even two parents both working with one child at 12:15 hour is insufficient for a living wage in Dallas!

Given that only a couple weeks ago you made the Preposterous claim that "upper middle class" income in this country ranges from "100k to $250k a year", I suspect if you had to live on 12.50 an hour for a couple years - - I mean really live on that amount and not know that you had an "upper middle class" (I.e. rich) Suburban Portland family you could rely on for support or to move back in with if things got tough--I suspect you might change your mind in a hurry.

[OSR stands with Israel]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Even taking goes very conservative looking figures as to how much typical expenses to survive are at face value, 1250 an hour is even then supposedly only a living wage if one lives alone and doesn't have a family or kids. A single parent has even one child, a livable wage is almost double that pay scale. Hell, even two parents both working with one child at 12:15 hour is insufficient for a living wage in Dallas!

Given that only a couple weeks ago you made the Preposterous claim that "upper middle class" income in this country ranges from "100k to $250k a year", I suspect if you had to live on 12.50 an hour for a couple years - - I mean really live on that amount and not know that you had an "upper middle class" (I.e. rich) Suburban Portland family you could rely on for support or to move back in with if things got tough--I suspect you might change your mind in a hurry.

https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/family-finance/articles/where-do-i-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-system#

For high earners, a three-person family needed an income between $106,827 and $373,894 to be considered upper-middle class,

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/what-is-middle-class-14833259

while three-person households making between $126,000 to $188,000 were considered an upper-middle-class.

[Badger]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

No one said everyone can live in a mansion and that isn't the point of the minimum wage. People need enough money to not end up on the street starving.

Did you even read the thread you just quoted?

I don't see where anyone posted that everyone should live in a mansion.

The whole point is that a 15$ minimum wage isn’t necessary to keep people from starving.

Indeed.

Sure oh, maybe. Just got help them if they have a catastrophic need descendants have alternate transportation to get to work at barely pays them enough to get by, just like most families. The point is there is exactly zero cushion room that someone can realistically live on for 12:50 hour outside of an economics textbook.

Never fails to be simultaneously hysterical and pathetic to see upper middle class or Rich conservatives repeating the age-old Mantra. If there's a problem with the economy, it's because the rich aren't earning enough, but the poor are earning too much.

[dead0man]

not "anticipate" rather just so they can deal with the supposed cataclysmic price increases that conservatives talk about from a minimum wage increase.

any conservative that says there will be "cataclysmic price increases" doesn't know what they're talking about.  Wages are a fraction of the overall price of most things.  Even if they double, the price of a taco at Taco Bell is only going to go up a few percentage points.

The problem with upping the MW to $15/hr in the entire country is the fact that the poorest people in the poorest places WILL.LOSE.THEIR.JOBS.  I understand upper middle class white kids from the coasts don't give a sh**t about those people (and neither do the jerks they vote for), but some of us do.

It's funny that conservatives suddenly care about poor and black people losing their job only when it involves their campaign donors having to increase their wages.

you think I'm speaking for "conservatives"?  Did we just meet?

Sorry, but the entire concept of tangible, let alone widespread unemployment occurring because of minimum wage increases just has never borne fruit ever since that argument was trotted out in the 30s. While it's possible there can be some jobs lost around the fringes,

which is exactly why I said "poorest people in the poorest places".  First two months of employment at McDonalds's in 95% of the country will be fine.  Only a very tiny percentage of us make MW in the first place, we're already talking about the fringes.  I am worried about the people on the edges, and I am worried about how little the mainstream left cares about them.

at the end of the day if a business owner believes they need six people working for them rather than five, they're going to continue to employ six people when the minimum wage goes up rather than try to run on a skeleton staff they've already independently determined they can't manage with, let alone shut down the business.

you may be right, most businesses on the edge have already been shut down over the last year.

At the end of the day, we can't and shouldn't try to reduce the standard of living to $0.50 an hour in order to compete with Guatemala. It's as bad policy economically as it is morally.

strawman

[Badger]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Even taking goes very conservative looking figures as to how much typical expenses to survive are at face value, 1250 an hour is even then supposedly only a living wage if one lives alone and doesn't have a family or kids. A single parent has even one child, a livable wage is almost double that pay scale. Hell, even two parents both working with one child at 12:15 hour is insufficient for a living wage in Dallas!

Given that only a couple weeks ago you made the Preposterous claim that "upper middle class" income in this country ranges from "100k to $250k a year", I suspect if you had to live on 12.50 an hour for a couple years - - I mean really live on that amount and not know that you had an "upper middle class" (I.e. rich) Suburban Portland family you could rely on for support or to move back in with if things got tough--I suspect you might change your mind in a hurry.

https://money.usnews.com/money/personal-finance/family-finance/articles/where-do-i-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-system#

For high earners, a three-person family needed an income between $106,827 and $373,894 to be considered upper-middle class,

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/what-is-middle-class-14833259

while three-person households making between $126,000 to $188,000 were considered an upper-middle-class.

LOL! Dude, Money Magazine even notes this is for high earners. I'm not sure how they conflate high earners and upper-middle-class, but somehow they do. Seriously, you really need to get a better set of Statistics to rely on for defining "upper middle class" that a pair of investment magazines aimed at High earners who want to believe they're just struggling along with the rest of the so-called middle class.

For a reality check, let's check actual census statistics.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Note that household, not individual, HOUSEHOLD incomes above 100K a year are in the top quarter of earners in this country. Household incomes above 115 K per year are in the top fifth. That upper end income for the one survey of 100 88 k a year would put that household within the top 7% of all earners in the country! How would you like it if you were in the top 7% of your class and your professors classified you as a " merely above-average student"? Well, that's hardly an accurate description is it? No more than it is to call people earning anywhere near the top 7% of the bell curve middle class, upper or otherwise.

That money magazine quote is particularly ludicrous. Household incomes above a quarter million a year are within the top one and a half percent of all earners in this country. Seriously man? Seriously?

Incidentally, even those investor magazines statistics with their laughable definition of UMC even then had to cheat the curve to get those numbers by assuming that even these " upper middle class families" only have one child. Fwiw, almost 80% of parents in this country have more than one child. And for even two parents both earning 1250 an hour with only one kid, that's not enough to live on even by your own cited statistics.

Osr, I think you're a decent kid with a fundamentally good heart. But railing against the higher wage for people working hard to barely scrape by, while simultaneously thinking that people earning tangibly north of 100k a year are merely "above average" as opposed to in reality just being rich, appears sheltered at best, and, let's say uncharitable at worst. I only mention this because I think you have the ability to grow and gain better perspective as to how truly difficult it is to survive, let alone raise even a single child, being paid less than 15 bucks an hour.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

To be completely honest, a minimum wage around $13 would probably be a better tradeoff (wage growth v increased unemployment) but $15 is just fine. It's better than what we have now.

That said, I strongly caution people advocating for a minimum wage above $15. It is incredibly likely this leads to higher unemployment, business closures, and generally less wealth in the hands of low-income Americans. The goal, after all, isn't to see how high the minimum wage can go but to make sure that everyone can afford the necessities. And there are plenty of other tools to do that--the EITC being the most obvious.

[Badger]

not "anticipate" rather just so they can deal with the supposed cataclysmic price increases that conservatives talk about from a minimum wage increase.

any conservative that says there will be "cataclysmic price increases" doesn't know what they're talking about.  Wages are a fraction of the overall price of most things.  Even if they double, the price of a taco at Taco Bell is only going to go up a few percentage points.

The problem with upping the MW to $15/hr in the entire country is the fact that the poorest people in the poorest places WILL.LOSE.THEIR.JOBS.  I understand upper middle class white kids from the coasts don't give a sh**t about those people (and neither do the jerks they vote for), but some of us do.

It's funny that conservatives suddenly care about poor and black people losing their job only when it involves their campaign donors having to increase their wages.

you think I'm speaking for "conservatives"?  Did we just meet?

Sorry, but the entire concept of tangible, let alone widespread unemployment occurring because of minimum wage increases just has never borne fruit ever since that argument was trotted out in the 30s. While it's possible there can be some jobs lost around the fringes,

which is exactly why I said "poorest people in the poorest places".  First two months of employment at McDonalds's in 95% of the country will be fine.  Only a very tiny percentage of us make MW in the first place, we're already talking about the fringes.  I am worried about the people on the edges, and I am worried about how little the mainstream left cares about them.

at the end of the day if a business owner believes they need six people working for them rather than five, they're going to continue to employ six people when the minimum wage goes up rather than try to run on a skeleton staff they've already independently determined they can't manage with, let alone shut down the business.

you may be right, most businesses on the edge have already been shut down over the last year.

At the end of the day, we can't and shouldn't try to reduce the standard of living to $0.50 an hour in order to compete with Guatemala. It's as bad policy economically as it is morally.

strawman

One. Of course not. But you're economics are kind of classic libertarian and tend to go hand-in-hand with the typical reaganite Republican. You're just less of a jerk about it.

Two. There's close to 700000 people working at her below the Federal minimum wage right now. When you add in all those still earning under 15 bucks an hour, that's still obviously a small minority, but hardly an inconsequential one. So is raising the minimum wage going to have little impact because so few people will be affected, or is it going to result in whole scale business closings because of overreaching government Authority? Please advise.

/smartassery. Seriously though, the fact it's only a small portion of the population and economy is if anything a stronger reason to enact such reform as its effects are not likely to cause the predicted economic dislocation. It certainly isn't not relevant to opposing the raise.

Three. Straw man.

Four. Not at all. See GoTFan's excellent post earlier in this thread as to why.

[dead0man]

There's close to 700000 people working at her below the Federal minimum wage right now. When you add in all those still earning under 15 bucks an hour, that's still obviously a small minority, but hardly an inconsequential one. So is raising the minimum wage going to have little impact because so few people will be affected, or is it going to result in whole scale business closings because of overreaching government Authority? Please advise.

/smartassery.

if you're ok with putting tens of thousands of the poorest people in the poorest places out of work, why even bother responding to my post in the first place?  Is it because you don't like to see it said outloud?  Sure, it might help hundreds of thousands of people make another $12/week, but if it puts 35,000 on the unemployment line and closes a 450 businesses in BFE Ruralsburg then that doesn't work for me.


But you guys are going to do it anyway, I just want you to pay attention to the results.  It ain't going to hurt me, you or any of the other nerds reading this, but it's going to hurt some of our cousins.  (of course your betters will make the excuses, and some of you will swallow them....but some of you won't and that's how we slowly get better)

[politics_king]

https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/48113


This is why the 15 dollar min wage push is dumb, the whole nation is not California or NY , and if you look at San Fran that number is over 20 dollars !!! while in places like Tulsa County its less than 11 bucks an hour

Your point? God forbid people make more than a living wage and *gasp* invest it into a home or business with possible money they can save. GOP supporters are so inept.

If you want a job that provides more than the bare minimum, get a better job.

Don’t make the state force you’re employer to pay a wage which is unreasonably high.

OMG. That statement is so ignorant and another GOP talking point. A lot of people don't have that option and a lot of these service working jobs, retail, etc. They're much more labor intensive then being a desk jockey/paper pusher. Reganomics is over, trickle down is a total failure and scam. If it wasn't, you wouldn't need to make a living wage law. But hey, do you.

Not everyone can live in a mansion, dude, and it’s not the responsibility of others to take up that slack.

What kind of whataboutism is that, dude. $15/hr can buy you a mansion? Please show me the way. Lol hilarious.

A $15/hr min wage moves the needle. A lot of states will hold, people will relocate to lower cost living with a decent paying wage. LA and NYC etc will fight for a state law or city law to get the wage higher.

It's reinvesting in the country in my eyes. Like I said, how do we help possible small businesses hurt by this? There's so many thing we're so far behind compared to other countries. It's just strange.

But at least this thread is a healthy debate, honestly. It's good to read everyone's perspective.