DC statehood Megathread (pg 33 - Manchin questioning constitutionality)

[It’s so Joever]

It won’t matter if the GOP filibusters.

[It’s so Joever]

They should add the remaining halves of DC and Puerto Rico to Maryland IMO.

Wyoming*

[It’s so Joever]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

"People I don't like should be disenfranchised because reasons"

How is PR disenfranchised? They have their own government. They aren’t drafted. They don’t pay federal taxes.

So I assume you are against the idea of the state of Rhode Island because it is basically one city and surrounding suburbs/exurbs?

I also assume you are against Wyoming because it doesn’t have enough people, yes?

[It’s so Joever]

No current US territories meet the requirements to become a state in my opinion.

PR is too different, a very small percentage of its population can actually speak English. If the average Puerto Rican can’t communicate with the average North Carolinian, then that’s a problem, because citizens of the same country need to be able to communicate. Additionally, Puerto Rico is corrupt, and I feel like they just want the feds to bail them out.

DC is too small territorially. That’s a problem because then it will be compromised of only a single city. That leads to issues with separations of powers- I’m not comfortable with allowing an entire state to be controlled by one city. Not to mention there’s an explicit reason the founders were opposed to this.

All other territories have too small populations, among other issues.

Not to mention that these are being done for political reasons. If they voted differently, we all know most Atlasians would be completely opposed to this.

"People I don't like should be disenfranchised because reasons"

How is PR disenfranchised? They have their own government. They aren’t drafted. They don’t pay federal taxes.

So I assume you are against the idea of the state of Rhode Island because it is basically one city and surrounding suburbs/exurbs?

I also assume you are against Wyoming because it doesn’t have enough people, yes?

Wyoming has over half a million people, more than all other territories except PR and DC. Clearly, half a million is pushing the limit, since millions of people complain about its Senate advantage non-stop.

Rhode Island also has 39 divisions of Government. Much more than the “one” in DC.

So...are you a yes or no on Wyoming?

As for divisions...would you be more willing to support DC statehood if we decided to convert the one city into 40 separate municipalities? The external borders wouldn’t change but we would make it even more viable than RI, right?

[It’s so Joever]

No, but if the GOP really wants to interpret it as such, the state of East Los Angeles will welcome the news

[It’s so Joever]

Guys. The debate over DC statehood is over. Republicans have very sound reasons of self-interest and power to not want to admit DC as a state and give its 700,000 citizens democratic representation. They refused to consider it or compromise when they held power so recognize proposed compromises for what they are, Hail Marys in a very rare time of weakness for our structurally overrepresented friends. There is no point in debating any longer. Either Dems will do it or they won’t in 2021 now that they have the power to do it. Republicans who just argued on the floor of Congress why the votes of Philadelphia, Atlanta, and Detroit are inherently invalid simply do not believe that the people of Washington deserve equal representation with rural white Americans and everything else is noise.

The “reckoning” on DC statehood came on Nov. 3 and Jan. 5 and debate is concluded.

Exactly, let’s not get tangled in these bad faith arguments.
We can simply label the GOP as anti-voter rights (they are) use the Capitol attack to prove our point, while secretly just wanting this for two new senators.

Why should we care what the GOP wants?

[It’s so Joever]

This is clearly the only sane way to get DC statehood.

[It’s so Joever]

I just merged 6 threads on this same topic. 

Washyoming deserves its own thread though. 

I think it is the greatest proposal ever.

[It’s so Joever]

I think most reds avatar are lying to themselves when they say they are not politically motivated in supporting DC and PR statehood so strongly. It's obvious that adding them would essentially guarantee an extra four Democratic senators, and no one is without this knowledge. When you advocate their statehood as a means to balance out the Senate, that is completely politically motivated. There was a lot less vocal support for statehood when Democrats were winning tons of senate seats in small, rural states and seemed to have a strong structural advantage in the Senate.  Adding states to change what is likely a temporary Republican structural advantage in the Senate is misguided. There are strong arguments for admitting both PR and DC, but they are not slam dunk, which is why adding them appears so politically motivated.

Having a distinct capital area with different functions than other provinces/administrative areas is very common. That is what DC is. Now, they should definitely be represented in the House. The Senate, however, exists specifically for the states. Admitting them as a state and ensuring senate representation is a different matter. I'm not sure the capital area should be in any specific state, and thus have Senate representation, although they should be represented in the House

For Puerto Rico, the case for statehood is weaker. For one, they are pretty autonomous in their governance and do not pay federal taxes. Thus is there isn't the no taxation without representation argument for them. They did just have their statehood referendum pass, but it did so with 52% of the vote. Only about 20% of the island's population voted for statehood, and about 28% of registered voters. I don't know what the threshold should be, but PR seems much too divided on statehood to be admitted. Perhaps a majority of RVs should be needed, or 60% or 66.7% support in a referendum, but 52% support in a 54% turnout election is simply not enough for a drastic change in governance like statehood. It should require consensus. When Democrats are much more enthusiastic about admitting PR as a state than PR itself, then it appears to be politically motivated.

And you are lying to yourself when you say you aren’t politically motivated against DC statehood.
Yeah I admit it, we want DC statehood for the senators, deal with it, your side is far worse and this is payback for your destruction of the country. I don’t care how you feel.

[It’s so Joever]

And you are lying to yourself when you say you aren’t politically motivated against DC statehood.
Yeah I admit it, we want DC statehood for the senators, deal with it, your side is far worse and this is payback for your destruction of the country. I don’t care how you feel.

It’s going to be so hilarious if you people add DC (and maybe even PR) and still lose the Senate in 2022. The next R trifecta is going to be glorious beyond words.

Yeah yeah, you hate America and want to continue to kill it slowly, we get it.
No need to gloat about it.

[It’s so Joever]

It just makes sense for Manchin to vote for DC statehood. Democrats will be able to pass progressive legislation without him that way, so he can vote however he likes to keep his WV constituents pleased.

Hahaha, he’s not going to get away with this.

As if he even cares anymore. Hopefully he realizes his career is done and he may as well vote his conscience.

[It’s so Joever]

It’s over DC statehood is done for. Same for PR statehood.
If anything I expect Democratic states to somehow lose representation as the cancer spreads into all three branches and they kill our democracy once and for all.

[It’s so Joever]

It’s over DC statehood is done for. Same for PR statehood.
If anything I expect Democratic states to somehow lose representation as the cancer spreads into all three branches and they kill our democracy once and for all.

Will you shut up man?

How many times do you have to be proven wrong before you realize we are screwed?

[It’s so Joever]

Yes this is a Democratic power grab.
And I for one wholeheartedly endorse it.

[It’s so Joever]

Having the votes for this is like having the votes for the tax cuts. This is the bare minimum major legislative item.

Yeah, I’d be shocked if this didn’t pass (obviously after the filibuster is nuked [de facto]) this year. Needless to say, DC is more likely to get admitted than PR.

Hello Shocked, I am Lurker.

[It’s so Joever]

IMO we should make Los Angeles a city state.

[It’s so Joever]

And as for the 23rd Amendment, it explicitly leaves the power of appointing the District's presidential electors to Congress "as Congress may direct," so if the DC statehood bill as currently proposed were to be enacted & the federal district were to become merely the White House, the Capitol, the Supreme Court, & the handful of other federal office buildings adjacent to the National Mall, Congress could literally just direct that those 3 EVs not be cast at all, thus removing any potential constitutional issues emanating from there.

If the Carper bill is the same as HR51 from the last Congress (the text isn't published yet), that's actually already included:

SEC. 223. Repeal of law providing for participation of seat of government in election of President and Vice-President.

(a) In general.—Chapter 1 of title 3, United States Code, is amended—

(1) by striking section 21; and

(2) in the table of sections, by striking the item relating to section 21.

(b) Effective date.—The amendments made by subsection (a) shall take effect upon the date of the admission of the State into the Union, and shall apply to any election of the President and Vice-President taking place on or after such date.

Edit: It is the same.

Okay OSR, Congress has already provided for a guarantee that the remaining parts of DC will get 0 EVs. So are you okay with DC getting statehood now?

I just wish this guy would be honest about his partisan motivations.

[It’s so Joever]

I would be open to the idea of PR statehood, but DC should in no scenario be admitted as a state. This is just a powergrab.

I would be open to the idea of MT statehood, but the Dakotas should in no scenario be admitted as separate states. This is just a powergrab.

The splitting of the Dakotas actually was a power grab.

[It’s so Joever]

This should have been done the first week and I’m nervous it’s not even being discussed amongst Schumer and the swing votes.

Also, PR should be included with this as well.

DC statehood could take effect within weeks or months and seat Senators at that point.
PR statehood could take effect on July 4, 2024 - to give them time to get ducks in a row.

This is one of the few progressive wish lists that even moderate Dems want


DAMN IT.

Calm down

[It’s so Joever]

So...what is the chance DC get statehood? I say around 20%.

[It’s so Joever]

If DC statehood happens , then Georgia gets Maine ruled , then other things happen .

Just merge Maryland and DC together

Great, hopefully Democrats start suppressing rural white voters and killing redistricting commissions.
While we are at it, let’s start actually bringing in swarms of illegals to vote (since the GOP wants to accuse of us that anyways lol) and intimidate potential Republicans from voting?
We can play this game, traitor. I know you hate America and are opposed to DC statehood ONLY for partisan reasons.
Also while we are at it, we should end all farm subsidies, push to make California five states, and deliberately tank the economy whenever a Republican is president. “Accidentally” see a bunch of rural precincts shut down a la Georgia, voting purges by Democratic SOSs, and spreading false Election Day/voter practice info among low propensity GOP communities so their ballots are invalid.
Yeah don’t start, OSR.

Your side has been rigging the game for years, if y’all so much as dare clutch a single pathetic Pearl, I sincerely hope the Democrats play scorched Earth.

[It’s so Joever]

If DC statehood happens , then Georgia gets Maine ruled , then other things happen .

Why would those things be connected? If Georgia Republicans think that "Maine-ruling" Georgia is in their best interest, they'll do it.

It’s called both sides using this as leverage against each other to make sure the other thing doesn’t happen .

Have you ever heard about this crazy notion of just doing the right thing?

The right thing is making sure neither thing happen

The right thing is to combine both Dakotas, and WY+MT+ID

[It’s so Joever]

This thread in a nutshell:

Peak Harry/Brucejoel/Badger: We must pass DC statehood, it’s a matter of equal representation! We would tooootally want to admit a GOP territory if they were underrepresented! This is certainly not about the Democratic senators we have said we wanted, no sireee!”

OSR: “The right thing to do is 100% to leave hundreds of thousands of tax paying Americans unrepresented because I want to keep the Reagan/Trump-cultists in power. Also can we find a way to keep those scary brown people in Georgia from voting, that would be great...

MillenialModerate: “Oh my god it’s been two days and DC isn’t a state yet with two senators. This is proof Schumer sucks and I am so ANGRY! The Democrats should have passed DC statehood five milliseconds after they took the majority, screw you Schumer and Markey! Kennedy would have passed it by now.”

OC: “Hahahaha Progmod told me Schumer pass DC statehood, but he was wrong just like about Georgia. Schumer doesn’t have votes to break filibuster and reconciliation, DC statehood won’t happen until 2023 when Democrats will win in a landslide because of recovering economy and get a filibuster proof MAJORITY 😎😎😎”

[It’s so Joever]

This thread in a nutshell:

Peak Harry/Brucejoel/Badger: We must pass DC statehood, it’s a matter of equal representation! We would tooootally want to admit a GOP territory if they were underrepresented! This is certainly not about the Democratic senators we have said we wanted, no sireee!”

OSR: “The right thing to do is 100% to leave hundreds of thousands of tax paying Americans I represented because I want to keep the Reagan/Trump-cultists in power. Also can we find a way to keep those scary brown people in Georgia from voting, that would be great...

MillenialModerate: “Oh my god it’s been two days and DC isn’t a state yet with two senators. This is proof Schumer sucks and I am so ANGRY!”

OC: “Hahahaha Progmod told me Schumer pass DC statehood, but he was wrong just like about Georgia. Schumer doesn’t have votes to break filibuster and reconciliation, DC statehood won’t happen until 2023 when Democrats will win in a landslide because of recovering economy and get a filibuster proof MAJORITY 😎😎😎”

You know thats not what I said

OSR Part 2: “Pffft, you know I never SAID we should keep 700k people from getting proper representation! I just implied it! And please daddy Kemp, purge those scary ppl already I am starting to clutch pearls.

[It’s so Joever]

OSR is just blue avatar S019 confirmed.