DC statehood Megathread (pg 33 - Manchin questioning constitutionality)

[bee33]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

And pass easily. Congress can make the federal district the size and shape it wants, and admit new states at its own will.

[Virginiá]

Arguments against DC statehood are so utterly terrible. Either it's just straight up partisanship, or that a state should have a minimum geographical size, or that DC must be federally controlled because something something protecting the government. Seriously, why does anyone care how small the state is? Who on EARTH is worried about some state leveraging power over the federal government? Really? This is borderline nitpicking and one of the reasons I find it hard to believe that it's really just not wanting more competition for a Senate majority.

If DC already had representation in Congress and this was basically just a debate about who has the final say over affairs in DC, then I'd probably be less inclined to support statehood as home rule can be further entrenched via federal statute anyway, but DC doesn't have representation in Congress. So all these arguments pale in comparison to what those Americans are being deprived of. If conservatives have such a problem with the idea of statehood, then support amending the constitution to give them equivalent representation in Congress. It's really that simple. If you don't want that either, then go get bent. We'll ram this through eventually without you, and you can go whine about it on Fox News.

[jimrtex]

Please split California in half.

Just so long as you guys have to keep Newsom.

Deal. You can have Kevin McCarthy.

Bakersfield goes with NorCal. Sorry, the Tehachapis are the border.

Bulldinky. This should be the map:



Or if you want more states, this:

https://www.newcaliforniastate.com/

[It’s so Joever]

IMO we should make Los Angeles a city state.

[Person Man]

Please split California in half.

Just so long as you guys have to keep Newsom.

Deal. You can have Kevin McCarthy.

Bakersfield goes with NorCal. Sorry, the Tehachapis are the border.

Bulldinky. This should be the map:



Or if you want more states, this:

https://www.newcaliforniastate.com/

Marin - Like California is now
El Dorado - Like Colorado
Coronado - Like New Mexico
Centralia - Like Florida or Arizona
Jefferson- Like Missouri or Ohio, not quite like Utah

[jimrtex]

Let Washington voters participate in Maryland federal and state elections just as they did before 1801.

This is no different than how other federal enclaves are treated. Just because the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction over various other areas with residential population does not mean the residents are not citizens of that state.

[swf541]

Let Washington voters participate in Maryland federal and state elections just as they did before 1801.

This is no different than how other federal enclaves are treated. Just because the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction over various other areas with residential population does not mean the residents are not citizens of that state.

No one in either Maryland or DC want this

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

What is the population of each of those new states in California?  I think is you were going to divide the state, you'd need roughly equal population in each new state.

In my mind, the most reasonable way to divide up CA would be into 3 states each with 12-14 million people:
Northern California: everything north of Monterey.
Central California (or Coastal CA?): LA County, Monterey, Kern, and stuff in between
Southern California: Orange, San Diego, and inland empire

Alternately, I guess you could make a state that's just LA and Orange and then swap Monterey, Santa Barbara, Kern, etc. into Southern California.

Nevertheless, you can't just divide up a state to gain Senate seats for one party.  You'd need a compelling reason why the citizens of California would be better off by dismantling their existing state government which is itself a massive institution with enormous obligations and legacy costs including state highways, pensions, multiple university systems, etc.

I completely support statehood for DC and PR though.

[MillennialModerate]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

And pass easily. Congress can make the federal district the size and shape it wants, and admit new states at its own will.

Lol... are you sure about that

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

And pass easily. Congress can make the federal district the size and shape it wants, and admit new states at its own will.

Lol... are you sure about that

What part of that do you disagree with?

[swf541]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

And pass easily. Congress can make the federal district the size and shape it wants, and admit new states at its own will.

Lol... are you sure about that

What part of that do you disagree with?

He's a troll why do we still bother to argue with him?

[brucejoel99]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

And pass easily. Congress can make the federal district the size and shape it wants, and admit new states at its own will.

Lol... are you sure about that

Yes. So long as the new state itself doesn't include the "seat of government," there wouldn't be a constitutional issue.

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1 of the Constitution says the following concerning the creation of new states:

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

As for the seat of government, Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 says the following:

[Congress shall have power...] To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

And as for the 23rd Amendment, it explicitly leaves the power of appointing the District's presidential electors to Congress "as Congress may direct," so if the DC statehood bill as currently proposed were to be enacted & the federal district were to become merely the White House, the Capitol, the Supreme Court, & the handful of other federal office buildings adjacent to the National Mall, Congress could literally just direct that those 3 EVs not be cast at all, thus removing any potential constitutional issues emanating from there.

With all the Constitution requires being that the seat of government not exceed 10 square miles & that it - & the appointment manner of its presidential electors - be under the control of Congress, there's nothing in the Constitution prohibiting Congress from shrinking the federal district to just the basics, with the surrounding area containing all of the actual people becoming a full-on state, & I don't see why at least 5 justices (e.g., Roberts, Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan, & uber-textualist-even-when-it-helps-the-liberals Gorsuch) wouldn't agree.

[Ferguson97]

Lol at all of the blue avatars pretending to oppose DC statehood for literally any other reason beyond the fact that it would give Dems two more seats in the Senate.

[Roronoa D. Law]

Let Washington voters participate in Maryland federal and state elections just as they did before 1801.

This is no different than how other federal enclaves are treated. Just because the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction over various other areas with residential population does not mean the residents are not citizens of that state.

Why start there? Let's also merge MS and AL or WV and VA like it was BACK IN 1801.

[Tintrlvr]

Please split California in half.

Just so long as you guys have to keep Newsom.

Deal. You can have Kevin McCarthy.

Bakersfield goes with NorCal. Sorry, the Tehachapis are the border.

Bulldinky. This should be the map:



Or if you want more states, this:

https://www.newcaliforniastate.com/

Marin - Like California is now
El Dorado - Like Colorado
Coronado - Like New Mexico
Centralia - Like Florida or Arizona
Jefferson- Like Missouri or Ohio, not quite like Utah

That Jefferson voted for Clinton (very narrowly) and Biden by a larger margin. Sacramento is big and quite Democratic nowadays. Centralia did vote for Trump in 2016, but probably flipped to Biden in 2020.

El Dorado, Coronado and Marin were stronger for Clinton than any other existing state.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

Based on what exactly?

John Roberts may be a hack, but you have to give him a fig leaf.

[Senator Spark]

I don't oppose DC statehood and it is ultimately up to that jurisdiction to decide. Some other options include it remaining a federal district or be absorbed into Maryland by revoking the 23rd Amendment.

I think Puerto Rico should become a state first. 

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

For the last time, Cali isn't gonna be divided up

[Badger]

I don't oppose DC statehood and it is ultimately up to that jurisdiction to decide. Some other options include it remaining a federal district or be absorbed into Maryland by revoking the 23rd Amendment.

I think Puerto Rico should become a state first. 

For the umpteenth million time.

Maryland doesn't want to absorb DC.

DC does not want to be absorbed into Maryland.

The two have been separate legal entities for literally hundreds of years.

Leaving over 700,000 American residents without congressional representation and subject to Federal Fiat by non locally elected officials is repugnant to the basic American values of local self- governance and no taxation without representation.

There is absolutely no reason on Earth to support absorption into Maryland unless someone partisan lie wants to avoid the likelihood of two additional Democrats elected to the Senate, period end of sentence.

There has yet to be a single ostensibly non-partisan argument raised against DC statehood more cogent than " well, it's always been that way , so there."

Enough. Let's finish this long overdue reform.

[Catalunya]

Maryland should just join DC. This way we’ll have 2 fewer Democrats in the Senate and 7 fewer House Democrats.

This post was brought to you by; Blue avatar gang.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I actually agree that, in an ideal world, DC should just be merged into Maryland. In an ideal world, we'd also split California and Texas into 3 to 5 new states and change quite a bit more about the structure of the US government. But in the world of actually-achievable things, making DC a state is the clear way forward.

That being said, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think the reconciliation route is plausible, and nuking the filibuster remains a tall order. Still, glad dems are putting it on the agenda.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

100% chance this will go to the Supreme Court.

On what grounds? Even if they made the entirety of the Federal district into a new State, it would be Constitutional. The Constitution only specifies that there may be a Federal district, not that there must be one.

Even if there were some provision that was being violated, who would have standing to sue?  The Supreme Court will deny cert.

[CookieDamage]

I actually agree that, in an ideal world, DC should just be merged into Maryland. In an ideal world, we'd also split California and Texas into 3 to 5 new states and change quite a bit more about the structure of the US government. But in the world of actually-achievable things, making DC a state is the clear way forward.

That being said, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think the reconciliation route is plausible, and nuking the filibuster remains a tall order. Still, glad dems are putting it on the agenda.

Why?

[Antonio the Sixth]

I actually agree that, in an ideal world, DC should just be merged into Maryland. In an ideal world, we'd also split California and Texas into 3 to 5 new states and change quite a bit more about the structure of the US government. But in the world of actually-achievable things, making DC a state is the clear way forward.

That being said, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think the reconciliation route is plausible, and nuking the filibuster remains a tall order. Still, glad dems are putting it on the agenda.

Why?

Because reconciliation is explicitly meant for taxing and spending policy items. Now, there is some legitimate wiggle room in terms of what constitutes such an item (on things like increasing the minimum wage, for example, or introducing a public option - those aren't just revenue or expenditures, but they can be argued to bear a clear connection to them) but using it for something as far-reaching as statehood broadens it to the point of meaninglessness.