Trump 2nd Impeachment News/Talk Megathread

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Okay, but the Democrats are much better than Trump. Again, the only reason any leftists dispute that is that Certain Folks have fifty years' worth of costs sunk into the Extremely New Left idea that imperialism is when the United States projects hard power; the more hard power the United States projects, the imperialister it is; and American imperialism is the gravest problem facing the world and renders all other issues irrelevant. It's the edgy-online-leftist equivalent of abortion single-issuism on the right, and, as it turns out, has had exactly the same effect of propping up an overtly right-wing-authoritarian president as somehow the moral alternative to Teh Ev0l Librulz.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

https://news.yahoo.com/ap-norc-poll-americans-split-130003975.html

Poll on Impeachment, 47% approve of conviction, it's doesn't have 50% support

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

https://news.yahoo.com/ap-norc-poll-americans-split-130003975.html

Poll on Impeachment, 47% approve of conviction, it's doesn't have 50% support

Still 7% more than think he should be acquitted, and I’ve seen polls where it gets majority support.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

FWIW, I just sent messages to both Senator Burr and Senator Tillis urging them to vote to convict Donald Trump as a means to discourage a future President from overrunning Congress if they don't get their way, along with making a number of constitutional and rule of law arguments.

Burr actually responded to me. He emphasized his role as an "impartial juror" but also stated at the end that he holds Trump responsible for the events of January 6 for "lying to the American People" and "refusing to accept the results of the election".

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Tillis and Burr are safe nays on CONVICTION, NC has emergered as an R state with Pat McCrory running for Senate.

Tillis and Johnson heavily criticized Biden on Hunter Biden Ukraine deal

Tillis and Johnson and Ernst said they won't convict Trump in the last Impeachment due to Hunter Biden.

Look Biden already said D's don't have 67, the only people they have are 55 Senators that voted not to dismiss trial.

It's a political trial not criminal case

[brucejoel99]

FWIW, I just sent messages to both Senator Burr and Senator Tillis urging them to vote to convict Donald Trump as a means to discourage a future President from overrunning Congress if they don't get their way, along with making a number of constitutional and rule of law arguments.

Burr actually responded to me. He emphasized his role as an "impartial juror" but also stated at the end that he holds Trump responsible for the events of January 6 for "lying to the American People" and "refusing to accept the results of the election".

Let's see: imminent retirement, check. Actually blaming Trump, check.

Ladies & gentlemen, I think we can count ourselves a vote to convict if Mitch were to give the go-ahead.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Biden already said on Fri, D's don't have 67 votes to convict, but Trump should be Prosecuted on Impeachment.

It's a political trial not a criminal case.


That's why Rs are dragging out Garland confirmation due to Prosecution of Trump

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Okay, but the Democrats are much better than Trump. Again, the only reason any leftists dispute that is that Certain Folks have fifty years' worth of costs sunk into the Extremely New Left idea that imperialism is when the United States projects hard power; the more hard power the United States projects, the imperialister it is; and American imperialism is the gravest problem facing the world and renders all other issues irrelevant. It's the edgy-online-leftist equivalent of abortion single-issuism on the right, and, as it turns out, has had exactly the same effect of propping up an overtly right-wing-authoritarian president as somehow the moral alternative to Teh Ev0l Librulz.

Even if we ignore the fact that Democrats like Obama are war criminals, they suck on plenty of other issues.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Okay, but the Democrats are much better than Trump. Again, the only reason any leftists dispute that is that Certain Folks have fifty years' worth of costs sunk into the Extremely New Left idea that imperialism is when the United States projects hard power; the more hard power the United States projects, the imperialister it is; and American imperialism is the gravest problem facing the world and renders all other issues irrelevant. It's the edgy-online-leftist equivalent of abortion single-issuism on the right, and, as it turns out, has had exactly the same effect of propping up an overtly right-wing-authoritarian president as somehow the moral alternative to Teh Ev0l Librulz.

Even if we ignore the fact that Democrats like Obama are war criminals, they suck on plenty of other issues.

Do you even understand what it means to c o m p a r e two things?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Inside those 47-40 numbers, on Impeachment, D's have enough D's and indies support, but 87 percent of RS mostly in the South are against Impeachment. The D's have to convince Rs to convict, they already have 50 Ds

[roxas11]

At this point the Dems have allready won in court of public opinion

A recent ABC News/Ipsos poll released today shows that 56% of Americans say Trump should be convicted and barred from holding office again, and 43% say he should not be

These numbers are far worse for Trump compared to the first impeachment when only  47% of Americans said the Senate should vote to remove Trump from office and 49% said he should not be removed.

since there is Zero chance that the GOP are going to actually vote to convict Trump
I think that the Dems should focus on winning even more Public support in order to make the GOP inevitable vote to acquit trump as damaging to them as possible among both independent and swing voters.

The Dems should go all out and showing the public just how horrifying this event really was. They should talk about the graphic details like the poor cop who lost some of his fingers or the cop that will now be blind for the rest of his life and they should call witness

it wont win over the GOP but I will make make their vote to acquit trump far for more toxic to them and the GOP brand overall

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1358402596357222406

[Badger]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Like?

Seriously?

Yes because like I said in another thread if we are defining what Obama did in Libya as a war then Trump has totally continued this policy in Yemen and Syria. If you’re going to argue Obama was a worse president then Trump especially on the foreign policy front then you should actually present an actual case of how he was worse over engaging in the same tactic Trumpers do of misrepresenting Trump being a 24/7 domestic front news that the fact he did drone strikes more than Obama and with less regard for civilians casualties failed to gain any notice with the absurd notion Trump was a dove

So your whole excuse for Obama is sure Trump did bad things too. Trump didn't run on "hope and change" and pretend to be a progressive while Democrats got destroyed down ballot in his midterms.  If Obama wasn't a sh**tty President you wouldn't need to go with well Trump did those things too.

Hey Jfern. We all get it that Obama ran over your dog or something, but you really can give it a rest now.

[Crumpets]

Looks like formal trial proceedings will start in about 20 minutes.

[Horus]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

The media did not stand up to Trump in the way you think. They gave him the Kardashian treatment, reporting on every tiny movement he made, and in 2016 gave him 24/7 coverage Obama could've only dreamed of.

The media forced Trump on us.

[GeorgiaModerate]

NYT is live blogging the trial: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/02/09/us/politics/live-impeachment.html

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Has there been any consideration to admitting DC before the trial to decrease the number of Republicans who would have to go out on a limb and convict?

Not that admitting states just for impeachment votes is a good precedent, but since DC statehood is a 100% lock this year anyway, might as well move it up on the calendar. After all, the Americans living in DC deserve a voice in this matter.

1. Admit DC as 25 states
2. Have quick elections in all 25 new states
3. Remove Trump from office without any Republican votes even though he already left
4. Profit!

So much talk about how “liberals hate socialists more than fascists”, not so much about how the reverse is also true for a certain obnoxious portion of the left.

I do love how there was this catchphrase among socialists and far leftist that goes “scratch a lib and a fascist bleeds”. Yet these past 4 years under the closest to a fascist we have had in office we have seen this segment of leftist like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Chapo Trap House, and posters like Jfern and Big Abraham that spend there time only attacking mainstream democrats just to be a contrarian and in cases outright defend Trump

Some of us remember Obama's neoliberal warmongering.

Okay, but what mystifies people isn't why a hard leftist would be hostile to mainstream Democrats, it's why a hard leftist would be even more hostile to mainstream Democrats than to Trump and Trumpism, a position that only makes sense if you presuppose that 1. foreign policy is so overwhelmingly more important than domestic policy that a President can literally attempt to abolish representative democracy at home and still be preferable to a "normal" President whose foreign policy was worse than the aspiring autocrat's and 2. excessive use of hard power is the only kind of bad foreign policy. Normal people, including normal leftists, reject both of those premises.

When everyone is acting like Trump is worse than Hitler while Democrats aren't much better than Trump, what's the point of piling on with Trump. I'm more scared of Presidents that the media isn't so willing to stand up to.

Okay, but the Democrats are much better than Trump. Again, the only reason any leftists dispute that is that Certain Folks have fifty years' worth of costs sunk into the Extremely New Left idea that imperialism is when the United States projects hard power; the more hard power the United States projects, the imperialister it is; and American imperialism is the gravest problem facing the world and renders all other issues irrelevant. It's the edgy-online-leftist equivalent of abortion single-issuism on the right, and, as it turns out, has had exactly the same effect of propping up an overtly right-wing-authoritarian president as somehow the moral alternative to Teh Ev0l Librulz.

Even if we ignore the fact that Democrats like Obama are war criminals, they suck on plenty of other issues.

If you can name an issue area that Democrats are as bad as or worse than Republicans on from a leftist perspective, I'm happy to hear it.

[JoeInator]

I don't know if anyone else posted this but I found it interesting:

13 Senators have been jurors in 3 out of the 4 Presidential impeachment trials:
Patrick Leahy of Vermont
Chuck Grassley of Iowa
Mitch McConnell of Kentucky
Richard Shelby of Alabama
Dianne Feinstein of California
Patty Murray of Washington
Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma
Ron Wyden of Oregon
Dick Durbin of Illinois
Jack Reed of Rhode Island
Susan Collins of Maine
Chuck Schumer of New York
Mike Crapo of Idaho

And if the trial happened just a little over a month earlier Pat Roberts of Kansas and Mike Enzi of Wyoming would also be included in this list.

[Crumpets]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1359142126995591176

[Crumpets]

Wow, the impeachment manager (i.e. "prosecution") is playing a video compilation from the day that included the shooting. Looks like they could try to make "Trump has conservative blood on his hands" an implicit part of the argument.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

At least after today we’ll see whether the 55 votes the media keeps talking about really is a maximum for impeachment (based on who votes for the constitutionality of the trial)...right?

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Wow, the impeachment manager (i.e. "prosecution") is playing a video compilation from the day that included the shooting. Looks like they could try to make "Trump has conservative blood on his hands" an implicit part of the argument.

That video was so incredibly hard to watch.

Just absolutely infuriating and horrifying. 

[brucejoel99]

At least after today we’ll see whether the 55 votes the media keeps talking about really is a maximum for impeachment (based on who votes for the constitutionality of the trial)...right?

Yeah, unlike last time where the media acted as if the motion (that failed 55-45) to proceed with further debate on Rand Paul's constitutionality motion was itself a vote on constitutionality even though it wasn't, today will actually see a full-on vote on constitutionality.

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

At least after today we’ll see whether the 55 votes the media keeps talking about really is a maximum for impeachment (based on who votes for the constitutionality of the trial)...right?

Yeah, unlike last time where the media acted as if the motion (that failed 55-45) to proceed with further debate on Rand Paul's constitutionality motion was itself a vote on constitutionality even though it wasn't, today will actually see a full-on vote on constitutionality.

What time is the vote? Do you know?

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

At least after today we’ll see whether the 55 votes the media keeps talking about really is a maximum for impeachment (based on who votes for the constitutionality of the trial)...right?

Yeah, unlike last time where the media acted as if the motion (that failed 55-45) to proceed with further debate on Rand Paul's constitutionality motion was itself a vote on constitutionality even though it wasn't, today will actually see a full-on vote on constitutionality.

What time is the vote? Do you know?

I believe after four hours of debate.