Favourite King of Italy?

[Battista Minola 1616]

Inspired by the Kings of France poll. Sorry, HenryWallaceVP.

Not exactly a great bunch... Anyway, personally, as much as Umberto II wins in a landslide going by harm reduction for, well, very obvious reasons, and as much as VE2 was quite inconsistent, at various points would probably have tried to recreate absolute monarchy had it been convenient, and made terrible mistakes starting from his very name, I have a penchant for our boorish, #populist Unity hero King. Also, a vote to spite Pius IX.
Funnily I was born on the same day as both Victor Emmanuel II and Umberto I - March 14th.

[Lechasseur]

Well it seems to me, that unlike for most of Europe's other monarchies, for Italy the choice is quite straight forward, it would have to be Vittorio Emmanuele II.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, it's gotta be VE2. Not a political genius or an inspiring charismatic leader (that was Cavour and Garibaldi, respectively), but he played his part well in the Risorgimento nonetheless, and it's hard to see it succeeding without him.

[Diabolical Materialism]

Odoacer

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Odoacer

Frederick II!

[Battista Minola 1616]

Odoacer

Frederick II!

Frederick II gave us Jacopo da Lentini, and Jacopo da Lentini gave us the sonnet, and that is enough for an FF rating in my book.

[F. Joe Haydn]

I don't know enough about any of these monarchs to answer, as late 19th/early 20th century Europe is out of my purview. But if you asked me about my favorite Duke of Savoy, I'd probably say Victor Amadeus I, the Lion of Susa, because he was relatively pro-French/anti-Habsburg and didn't massacre the Waldensians, which is about as good as can be said for these Savoyard dukes.

[Battista Minola 1616]

I don't know enough about any of these monarchs to answer, as late 19th/early 20th century Europe is out of my purview. But if you asked me about my favorite Duke of Savoy, I'd probably say Victor Amadeus I, the Lion of Susa, because he was relatively pro-French/anti-Habsburg and didn't massacre the Waldensians, which is about as good as can be said for these Savoyard dukes.

You should expand your purview then. And of course if you like pro-France/anti-Habsburg types, then Victor Emmanuel II is definitely your man.

[F. Joe Haydn]

I don't know enough about any of these monarchs to answer, as late 19th/early 20th century Europe is out of my purview. But if you asked me about my favorite Duke of Savoy, I'd probably say Victor Amadeus I, the Lion of Susa, because he was relatively pro-French/anti-Habsburg and didn't massacre the Waldensians, which is about as good as can be said for these Savoyard dukes.

You should expand your purview then. And of course if you like pro-France/anti-Habsburg types, then Victor Emmanuel II is definitely your man.

I probably should, but what I'm really ignorant of is ancient history. I know next to nothing about the Greeks and Romans and all that stuff. Someday I imagine I'll read more outside the early modern period, but it will always be my true passion.

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

[Antonio the Sixth]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

[F. Joe Haydn]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

[Antonio the Sixth]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

Eh, as far as painting goes, I'd say David and Delacroix can hold their own. And on a more politico-social note, French history 1789-1914 is one of the coolest and craziest sagas you will find anywhere. You should really give it a look when you have a chance.

[Lechasseur]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

Eh, I'm more a fan of Gothic/Neo-Gothic, Renaissance and Second Empire architecture/art.

Baroque I find is very hit or miss. For example, St. Paul's Cathedral or some of German/Austrian examples are marvellous, I'm generally not a fan of how it turned out in Italy or France (with the obvious exceptions of Versailles ,Saint-Sulpice Church in Paris and Lyon City Hall) for example.
That being said, I'll personally take a Notre Dame over a St. Paul's, even if I find both great.

My least favourite though is Neoclassical. Imo only the US seems to have gotten it more or less right (tbf, it's a style that I think generally only really works in warmer climates like say DC; on colder, wetter climates like say the Northern half of France or the UK you just get these really ugly, dark buildings with it).

Edit: I'm obviously not counting anything built after WWI, as all post-WWI buildings, with the odd exception, are absolutely odious. And don't get me started on modern "art" (barf)

[Lechasseur]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

I unironically agree with this (although obviously the Ancien Régime could not survive)

[Lechasseur]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

Eh, as far as painting goes, I'd say David and Delacroix can hold their own. And on a more politico-social note, French history 1789-1914 is one of the coolest and craziest sagas you will find anywhere. You should really give it a look when you have a chance.

Absolutely. No country in the world has a history as interesting as France's in that time period. I found learning about it absolutely fascinating, and I didn't know much at all about it until lycée (highschool).

[Lechasseur]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

Eh, I'm more a fan of Gothic/Neo-Gothic, Renaissance and Second Empire architecture/art.

Baroque I find is very hit or miss. For example, St. Paul's Cathedral or some of German/Austrian examples are marvellous, I'm generally not a fan of how it turned out in Italy or France (with the obvious exceptions of Versailles ,Saint-Sulpice Church in Paris and Lyon City Hall) for example.
That being said, I'll personally take a Notre Dame over a St. Paul's, even if I find both great.

My least favourite though is Neoclassical. Imo only the US seems to have gotten it more or less right (tbf, it's a style that I think generally only really works in warmer climates like say DC; on colder, wetter climates like say the Northern half of France or the UK you just get these really ugly, dark buildings with it).

Edit: I'm obviously not counting anything built after WWI, as all post-WWI buildings, with the odd exception, are absolutely odious. And don't get me started on modern "art" (barf)

And actually, I think that your tastes in art/architecture, just as with almost anything, are to a large degree a product of where and how you grew up.

I think in many ways I'm most attracted to Gothic and Second Empire architecture because those are basically the two traditional styles where I grew up. And funnily enough, the buildings were a big part of what got me interested in Monarchies and History in general (having spent your early years in a quasi time machine like Lyon will do that for you).

And I think I never got the appeal of modern "art" to a large degree because I grew up in a pretty traditional home (even if my parents were politically more to the left), and neither were particularly artistic nor "modernist".

And having grown up in a place with such great architecture, my preference now is to live in a place like that if possible. Those are my tastes.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

All of which pales in comparison to the beautiful austerity and republican virtue of Revolutionary France.

[F. Joe Haydn]

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

Eh, as far as painting goes, I'd say David and Delacroix can hold their own. And on a more politico-social note, French history 1789-1914 is one of the coolest and craziest sagas you will find anywhere. You should really give it a look when you have a chance.

David I like, but he's no Watteau. And yeah I'm familiar with the various regimes and revolutions of 1800s France, but to be honest that's just not as interesting to me as the Ancien Regime. Too ideological, or something. Like Henry Adams, I am "a child of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries."

My pro-French/anti-Habsburg bias is also more of an early modern thing, and I'm not sure it carries over into the late 19th century. It may sound bad for a left-wing person to say, but the France that I truly love is the Ancien Régime, in all of its great glory and grandness.

Sounds like you're overdue for an appointment with the National Razor, Citizen.

Indeed, M. de Guillotin. But what can I say, the French monarchy is culturally just so much cooler. What composer of the 19th century can match the operas of Lully, what modernist painter can hold a candle to the canvases of Poussin, what architect can build a structure as magnificent as Versailles? There was nowhere for the fine arts to go but down after the exhilarating high of the Baroque, a period which I believe will never be surpassed culturally or aesthetically.

All of which pales in comparison to the beautiful austerity and republican virtue of Revolutionary France.

"He who has not lived in the eighteenth century before the Revolution does not know the sweetness of life." - Talleyrand

[Antonio the Sixth]

"He who has not lived in the eighteenth century before the Revolution does not know the sweetness of life." - Talleyrand

Spoken like a true 1%er of his time.

[Battista Minola 1616]

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

[Lechasseur]

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

LOL well the French Kings did rule large chunks of Italy for a bit under the Carolingians and then during the Italian Wars.

And most importantly, your Italian Kings came from Savoy, France

[YPestis25]

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

LOL well the French Kings did rule large chunks of Italy for a bit under the Carolingians and then during the Italian Wars.

And most importantly, your Italian Kings came from Savoy, France

Careful, you may make Battista an irredentist yet.

[Antonio the Sixth]

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

LOL well the French Kings did rule large chunks of Italy for a bit under the Carolingians and then during the Italian Wars.

And most importantly, your Italian Kings came from Savoy, France

Careful, you may make Battista an irredentist yet.

I'm a Savoyard and Savoy is rightfully Italian.

[Battista Minola 1616]

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

LOL well the French Kings did rule large chunks of Italy for a bit under the Carolingians and then during the Italian Wars.

And most importantly, your Italian Kings came from Savoy, France

Careful, you may make Battista an irredentist yet.

I'm a Savoyard and Savoy is rightfully Italian.

I'm a Ligurian and Nizza is rightfully Ligurian.

[YPestis25]

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

LOL well the French Kings did rule large chunks of Italy for a bit under the Carolingians and then during the Italian Wars.

And most importantly, your Italian Kings came from Savoy, France

Careful, you may make Battista an irredentist yet.

I'm a Savoyard and Savoy is rightfully Italian.

That feeling when your thread asks "favourite King of Italy" but most of the debate so far is about French cultural history...

LOL well the French Kings did rule large chunks of Italy for a bit under the Carolingians and then during the Italian Wars.

And most importantly, your Italian Kings came from Savoy, France

Careful, you may make Battista an irredentist yet.

I'm a Savoyard and Savoy is rightfully Italian.

I'm a Ligurian and Nizza is rightfully Ligurian.

I'm really curious what you two think of the Plombieres Agreement.