Republicans: Explain how there was rampant voter fraud in 2020

[jimrtex]

You don't need to hold state elections at the same time as federal elections.

If the federal government issued ID's, voters registrations would be automatically updated when someone moved. The ID's could also be used for employment and census purposes.

Limit voting precincts to 500 persons (smaller in less densely populated areas). In cities, many people could walk to the polling place. 500 over 12 hours is one voter every 86 seconds. With ID's voters could be quickly checked, and as mentioned before with simple paper ballots a half dozen or so voting booths could easily handle the voting.

Let's count 10 ballots a minute (placing them in stacks), it would take an hour.

Whether they do or not is up to the states and localities. Some hold their state elections during the presidential. Most hold their state elections in off-years. That's not the problem, the problem is that there are too many offices to run for that most voters don't know or care about.

I don't see how any of these ideas are supposed to reduce wait times or not disenfranchise some people.

How much vote fraud is "rampant".

None. Because it's a rare abnormality.

It is up to the federal government as to the manner of congressional elections. They can certainly exclude extraneous elections from happening the same date, and require use of federal ID's.

I explained how limiting ballots would eliminate lines at polling places.

How much immigration fraud is there? Is it "rampant"?

The federal government doesn't have the authority to create a national ID program nor to regulate state elections. This is precisely what federalism was established to protect against.

Instead of changing the subject to ten completely unrelated things, why don't you just answer the OP's question?

The federal government has plenty of authority to create a national ID.

It would not be regulating state elections, it would be banning interference with federal elections. In this case, state elections should be considered a contaminant.

We're trying to determine the value of "rampant".

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

The federal government has plenty of authority to create a national ID.

No, it doesn't. Congress can only (and does) tell the states what certain IDs are required for entry to federal buildings, military bases, nuclear power plants, and commercial air travel. The elections are 100% conducted by the states in a federal system.

It would not be regulating state elections, it would be banning interference with federal elections. In this case, state elections should be considered a contaminant.

Nothing in the Constitution allows Congress to deem non-federal elections a "contaminant".

We're trying to determine the value of "rampant".

No, you're playing word games and tossing distractions because you can't prove that there was any level of fraud in the last election. And I'm done playing.

[jimrtex]

The federal government has plenty of authority to create a national ID.

No, it doesn't. Congress can only (and does) tell the states what certain IDs are required for entry to federal buildings, military bases, nuclear power plants, and commercial air travel. The elections are 100% conducted by the states in a federal system.

It would not be regulating state elections, it would be banning interference with federal elections. In this case, state elections should be considered a contaminant.

Nothing in the Constitution allows Congress to deem non-federal elections a "contaminant".

We're trying to determine the value of "rampant".

No, you're playing word games and tossing distractions because you can't prove that there was any level of fraud in the last election. And I'm done playing.

Congress has time, place, manner authority over federal elections.

The reason Congress requires federal elections to be held on the same day is to prevent voters traveling between states, and so there is more federal supervision. They can clearly prevent extraneous activity occurring in the locality of places where federal elections are occurring.

Why are you opposed to giving the American people confidence in their elections?

[IceAgeComing]

[clip]

If there was in-person voting using ID's with ballots cast in person, and ballots counted at the polling place, we would not be having this discussion.

If there were simple ballots, it would be feasible to have remote voting centers both in the United States and abroad (consulates, embassies, military bases). You go in, show your ID and get a ballot printed. The voted ballot is scanned and transmitted back to the United States.

We absolutely would be: Trump claimed exactly the same following the 2016 Iowa caucuses and was teeing up fraud accusations prior to the 2016 election until it was clear that he won: when he claimed that without the massive fraud that allegedly existed he'd have won the popular vote - he also alleged fraud following the 2018 mid-terms.  This is what he does when he loses an election: its a clear and consistent pattern that has nothing to do with postal voting or anything else.

Besides you didn't address any of my points: including the points about where postal votes are required.  You mention setting up polling stations in American embassies - this doesn't do the people that live hundreds of miles away from them any good since they'd have to give up the best part of two days to go and vote in person when instead you simply send them a ballot through the mail.  Its also a lot more complicated - to use soldiers as an example they are registered at their civilian address so every serviceman would have a different list of offices to vote for: different Senators, different House Members etc and organising remote polling to make sure that they have the right ballot paper to vote on is complicated and probably a lot more expensive than postal voting and it comes with a risk where because their votes would be easily identifiable you could probably identify how people have voted which is a violation of the secret ballot: while postal votes are secret.

You seem to be doing the old thing where you spread lies and innuendo about someone and then say "well look how can we trust them?" citing those lies as justification for not doing so even though they are wrong.  There's very limited evidence in the arguments you present for postal voting being inherently corrupt: just a lot of assumptions that aren't backed up by any hard evidence.  Personally I think elections policy should be decided by the facts and what makes it easier for people to vote rather than assumptions of fraud that apparently doesn't exist on any major level.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Step 1) Sabotage vote counting so that Biden voters are counted later
Step 2) Raise ‘serious questions’ based on the ramblings of conspiracy theorists
Step 3) Scream about how every EVERY BREAK went Biden’s way, therefore suspicious, throw out the election

To be fair, there's a perfectly good explanation for why Biden's votes were counted later: the vast majority of Trump's voters voted on Election Day (because they were literally told to by their candidate of choice) and the vast majority of Biden voters voted early or by mail.

Why every state can't just pass a law to automatically count already submitted ballots is beyond me. I don't want to be forced to sit through five straight days of CNN ever again.

Why should there be any mail ballots?

Have everyone vote on election day showing their IDs, using paper ballots, one per office (three at most if there is a senate race). Count them after the polls close. Record the totals and report them to the county election officials. Place the tally sheets in with the ballots and take them to the county election officials in case a recount is needed.

“I don’t like that vote-by-mail exists and was used in this election” =/= evidence of voter fraud

Vote-by-mail is more susceptible to harvesting. Undeniably more dead persons vote by mail than in person. If all ballots had been cast on election day on paper ballots and counted at each polling place there would be less concern about vote fraud.

Which is already extremely rare and severely punishable by law. And still not a single blue avatar has produced evidence that there was rampant voter fraud in this election.

"Evidence" is provided in the filing of court cases, not in the media.  Court cases are going forward, and they SHOULD go forward. 

The lawsuits may, or may not, change any outcomes.  Courts are rightly loathe to throw out elections, even elections where improper votes are found to have been cast.  But there are allegations made under oath of improper behavior that should be investigated and heard by Courts.  This is an election where, at the end, EVERY break went against Trump, and the massive vote dumps come from urban areas that have far from savory reputations as to the honesty of their elections over the years.  There are legitimate issues of improper rule changes and rules that were unequally applied. 

[7,052,770]

"Evidence" is provided in the filing of court cases, not in the media.  Court cases are going forward, and they SHOULD go forward. 

Wait, do you actually think this? You haven't heard that all these cases are getting thrown out almost immediately? Nothing is "going forward." It's a grift and show, and it has been from the beginning.

Where do you get your news?

[MasterJedi]

"Evidence" is provided in the filing of court cases, not in the media.  Court cases are going forward, and they SHOULD go forward. 

Wait, do you actually think this? You haven't heard that all these cases are getting thrown out almost immediately? Nothing is "going forward." It's a grift and show, and it has been from the beginning.

Where do you get your news?

They don’t get news, it’s all propaganda now. For anyone who thought Fuzzy was a reasonable conservative voice at least now the charade has been dropped.

[Fuzzy Bear]

"Evidence" is provided in the filing of court cases, not in the media.  Court cases are going forward, and they SHOULD go forward. 

Wait, do you actually think this? You haven't heard that all these cases are getting thrown out almost immediately? Nothing is "going forward." It's a grift and show, and it has been from the beginning.

Where do you get your news?

They don’t get news, it’s all propaganda now. For anyone who thought Fuzzy was a reasonable conservative voice at least now the charade has been dropped.

At least you're admitting that the news you're getting is all propaganda.

How else would you describe simultaneous Town Halls featuring a Democratic Hack's wife (Savannah Guthrie) interrogating and cross-examining Trump while a former Democratic Presidential Press Secretary (George Stephanopolous) lob softballs to Biden?  This describes the whole campaign for the Presidency of the US; intense heat for Trump, sheltered softballs for Biden.  Are you seriously going to question the accuracy of this depiction?

[7,052,770]

"Evidence" is provided in the filing of court cases, not in the media.  Court cases are going forward, and they SHOULD go forward. 

Wait, do you actually think this? You haven't heard that all these cases are getting thrown out almost immediately? Nothing is "going forward." It's a grift and show, and it has been from the beginning.

Where do you get your news?

They don’t get news, it’s all propaganda now. For anyone who thought Fuzzy was a reasonable conservative voice at least now the charade has been dropped.

At least you're admitting that the news you're getting is all propaganda.

How else would you describe simultaneous Town Halls featuring a Democratic Hack's wife (Savannah Guthrie) interrogating and cross-examining Trump while a former Democratic Presidential Press Secretary (George Stephanopolous) lob softballs to Biden?  This describes the whole campaign for the Presidency of the US; intense heat for Trump, sheltered softballs for Biden.  Are you seriously going to question the accuracy of this depiction?

Fuzzy, focus. We're talking about "voter fraud" and "cases going forward" (or not going forward, as is the case in reality). Whining about how meannnnnn people are to Trump is a deflection.

[Horus]

How did every "break" go against Trump, Fuzzy?

What are we even defining as a "break"?

Miami Dade dropping all at once with very good numbers for Trump seems like a "break" to me as well...

[Former President tack50]

Also missed the whole bellwether thing which I showed in another thread:



Really odd that these failed to predict the winner.

So the Benford's Law thing is debunked, still plenty of other examples out there.

For what is worth, most of those are the kinds of county that are to some degree rural and heavily trended R between 2012 and 2016. Here is how they voted, in 2016, and remember that the 2016 election was actually won by Clinton in the popular vote, not Trump.

Valencia, NM: Trump+9
Hidalgo, NM: Trump+7
Vigo, IN: Trump+15!!
Westmoreland, VA: Trump+7
Ottawa, OH: Trump+20!!
Wood, OH: Trump+8
Essex, VT: Trump+16!!
Washington, ME: Trump+19!!
Clallam, WA: Trump+3
Calhoun, SC: Trump+3
Colleton, SC: Trump+9
Darlington, SC: Trump+4
Sargent, ND: Trump+20!!
Blaine, MT: Trump+2
Kent, DE: Trump+4
Coos, NH: Trump+9

I have bolded those that, considering the national swing from Clinton+2 to Biden+4, "should" have flipped or been within 1-2 points (those up to Trump+4 and lower). Note how, out of those 5 counties (admittedly a small sample size), 3 did vote for Biden.

Based exclusively on an even swing, only Blaine, MT should have flipped to Biden! (which it did); with Clallam and Calhoun being extremely tight, within half a percent or so. There were no counties that should not have flipped to Biden that actually did flip.

And as for the counties that flipped to Biden, but weren't supposed to based on even swing, most of those were supposed to be super tight anyways. Here is how the 5 counties I bolded behaved:

Clallam, WA: Biden+3. Slight D trend for whatever reason, but small enough that it is basically random noise and was what flipped the county to Biden. Not really statistically significant

Calhoun, SC: Trump+5. The rural south is supposed to be inelastic, so this being Trump by single digits when the national margin didn't change much is not that surprising?

Darlington, SC: Trump+5. Exactly the same as Calhoun, SC.

Blaine, MT: Biden+4. Flipped to Biden as expected, even if the margin was larger than you might have guessed. However, much like Clallam; the trend is still very small and essencially amounts to random noise; not statistically significant

Kent, DE: Biden+4. Again slightly larger margin than expected that might be explained due to random noise; though in this particular case you can also argue a home state effect for Biden.

If you want to pretend that a bunch of counties that voted for Trump in 2016 by high single digits in most cases, and double digits in some; held predictive value and should have flipped despite the small national swing, I think you are wrong?

And the few counties that were supposed to act as predictors, still acted mostly as predictors, with 60% of them going to Biden and the remaining 40% being 2 inelastic rural SC counties.

[Former President tack50]

Step 1) Sabotage vote counting so that Biden voters are counted later
Step 2) Raise ‘serious questions’ based on the ramblings of conspiracy theorists
Step 3) Scream about how every EVERY BREAK went Biden’s way, therefore suspicious, throw out the election

To be fair, there's a perfectly good explanation for why Biden's votes were counted later: the vast majority of Trump's voters voted on Election Day (because they were literally told to by their candidate of choice) and the vast majority of Biden voters voted early or by mail.

Why every state can't just pass a law to automatically count already submitted ballots is beyond me. I don't want to be forced to sit through five straight days of CNN ever again.

Why should there be any mail ballots?

Have everyone vote on election day showing their IDs, using paper ballots, one per office (three at most if there is a senate race). Count them after the polls close. Record the totals and report them to the county election officials. Place the tally sheets in with the ballots and take them to the county election officials in case a recount is needed.

Because that is the law in most (if not all) states in the US?

States are free to ban mail-in voting if they so choose I imagine. But changing the rules after the election is a very obvious no-go?

Ironically, that is exactly how elections work here in Spain, except we only vote for no more than 3 offices at a time and having an ID is mandatory for all citizens.  Well and we do offer mail-in voting, but it's much less convenient than the US equivalent (Requires you to physically go to the post office to vote and verify your identity)

[Former President tack50]

The federal government doesn't have the authority to create a national ID program nor to regulate state elections. This is precisely what federalism was established to protect against.

Instead of changing the subject to ten completely unrelated things, why don't you just answer the OP's question?

In fairness, there is already a "national ID program". It is just called a US passport.

Passports can fulfill the same functions as a hypothetical federal ID, and more; it is just that passports are extremely inconvenient to use compared to a small card. They are also generally more expensive than an ID card and since their main purposes is not ID but rather to travel internationally; not many people have passports in the first place (I think only like 20% of Americans do iirc?)

Of course, even if the "federal ID" already exists in the form of a passport (and therefore the authority to create a federal ID program exists), it is an open question whether or not the federal government can request a passport to vote; and the answer is more likely to be no than to be yes.

So it would be up to the states to ask for a US passport at voting booths.

[Badger]

Step 1) Sabotage vote counting so that Biden voters are counted later
Step 2) Raise ‘serious questions’ based on the ramblings of conspiracy theorists
Step 3) Scream about how every EVERY BREAK went Biden’s way, therefore suspicious, throw out the election

To be fair, there's a perfectly good explanation for why Biden's votes were counted later: the vast majority of Trump's voters voted on Election Day (because they were literally told to by their candidate of choice) and the vast majority of Biden voters voted early or by mail.

Why every state can't just pass a law to automatically count already submitted ballots is beyond me. I don't want to be forced to sit through five straight days of CNN ever again.

Why should there be any mail ballots?

Have everyone vote on election day showing their IDs, using paper ballots, one per office (three at most if there is a senate race). Count them after the polls close. Record the totals and report them to the county election officials. Place the tally sheets in with the ballots and take them to the county election officials in case a recount is needed.

“I don’t like that vote-by-mail exists and was used in this election” =/= evidence of voter fraud

Vote-by-mail is more susceptible to harvesting. Undeniably more dead persons vote by mail than in person. If all ballots had been cast on election day on paper ballots and counted at each polling place there would be less concern about vote fraud.

Links?

[Badger]

Step 1) Sabotage vote counting so that Biden voters are counted later
Step 2) Raise ‘serious questions’ based on the ramblings of conspiracy theorists
Step 3) Scream about how every EVERY BREAK went Biden’s way, therefore suspicious, throw out the election

To be fair, there's a perfectly good explanation for why Biden's votes were counted later: the vast majority of Trump's voters voted on Election Day (because they were literally told to by their candidate of choice) and the vast majority of Biden voters voted early or by mail.

Why every state can't just pass a law to automatically count already submitted ballots is beyond me. I don't want to be forced to sit through five straight days of CNN ever again.

Why should there be any mail ballots?

Have everyone vote on election day showing their IDs, using paper ballots, one per office (three at most if there is a senate race). Count them after the polls close. Record the totals and report them to the county election officials. Place the tally sheets in with the ballots and take them to the county election officials in case a recount is needed.

“I don’t like that vote-by-mail exists and was used in this election” =/= evidence of voter fraud

Vote-by-mail is more susceptible to harvesting. Undeniably more dead persons vote by mail than in person. If all ballots had been cast on election day on paper ballots and counted at each polling place there would be less concern about vote fraud.

Which is already extremely rare and severely punishable by law. And still not a single blue avatar has produced evidence that there was rampant voter fraud in this election.

How much vote fraud is "rampant".

More than zero at least, which is the amount you have so far demonstrated.

[The Dowager Mod]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1333853728944889858

[DINGO Joe]

Here's one of those people who signed an affidavit that Fuzzy is so impressed with (although it's already been rejected by the courts).  She's testifying in Michigan with Rudy by her side



https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334311448340795396?ref_src=twsrc%...

Rudy found someone more unhinged than him

[T'Chenka]

If you're still on the fence about this, I want you to watch the first 1 minute 47 seconds of this video.

Woodbury and millions of Americans are STILL supporting these people. America has not been saved by rejecting Trump. It's a good first step, yes, but it's plain to see that Trump's voters won't be leaving with him on January 20th.

[Joe Republic]

Here's one of those people who signed an affidavit that Fuzzy is so impressed with (although it's already been rejected by the courts).  She's testifying in Michigan with Rudy by her side



https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1334311448340795396?ref_src=twsrc%...

Rudy found someone more unhinged than him

In addition to the drunk woman, here’s a follow up star witness:


https://twitter.com/isaacdovere/status/1334481562193317888?s=21

[Badger]

If you're still on the fence about this, I want you to watch the first 1 minute 47 seconds of this video.

Woodbury and millions of Americans are STILL supporting these people. America has not been saved by rejecting Trump. It's a good first step, yes, but it's plain to see that Trump's voters won't be leaving with him on January 20th.

Is it just me or those three black guys standing behind the speaker at that Georgia rally were looking really uncomfortable?

[The Dowager Mod]

When the reactionary clowns running the WI supreme court won't even hear your case, It just might be a sh**t case.

[DINGO Joe]

Yeah, at this point, I'd like to give thanks to the thousands of election workers in Michigan and hundreds of thousands nationwide who worked so hard to provide us with free and fair elections during a pandemic while obviously having to deal with mentally unwell and racist people who have tried to undermine it.  These election workers are true patriots.