Chile Constitutional Referendum, September 4th 2022

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Also, according to kaoras, this organization has taken a clear stance on the "Middle East affairs" that is clearly "pro-Israel" and "anti-Palestine". When this organization is trolling a certain Gabriel Boric sending him some "poisoned gifts", I think that Boric is entitled to ask that organization for commitment to decolonization in Palestine. That call from Boric shouldn't be taken as an attack against the rest of the Jewish community or particular individuals, for he is not questioning them

Sometimes the smart thing to do when you think you are being "trolled" is not to take the bait by sending a response that will inevitably be misinterpreted. and BTW: referring to a jar of honey from a Jewish organization as a "poisoned gift" sounds like a Medieval "blood libel" accusing Jews of spreading poison and pestilence - so maybe you should watch your language a bit more.

Yeah, I'm willing to concede that Boric is probably the least objectionable choice  for Chilean Jews compared to Kast and Jadue, but that's a vile comment and far worse than anything Boric has said.

[Velasco]

Also, according to kaoras, this organization has taken a clear stance on the "Middle East affairs" that is clearly "pro-Israel" and "anti-Palestine". When this organization is trolling a certain Gabriel Boric sending him some "poisoned gifts", I think that Boric is entitled to ask that organization for commitment to decolonization in Palestine. That call from Boric shouldn't be taken as an attack against the rest of the Jewish community or particular individuals, for he is not questioning them

Sometimes the smart thing to do when you think you are being "trolled" is not to take the bait by sending a response that will inevitably be misinterpreted. and BTW: referring to a jar of honey from a Jewish organization as a "poisoned gift" sounds like a Medieval "blood libel" accusing Jews of spreading poison and pestilence - so maybe you should watch your language a bit more.

1) When I say that organization is sending a,"poisoned gift", by no means I am echoing blood libels. That's truly mischiveous and I could claim I am being personally attacked.

The actual meaning of "poisoned gift" is "something that initially appears to be good, wholesome, or positive, but is really harmful". In other words, it is trolling and not simply an innocent jar of honey. This topic is too harmful. Stop being disingeneous, please

2) Asking politely a "pro-Israel" trolling organization not to be hypocritical is not what I would call taking the troll's bait. Why do you advice Boric to remain silent, instead of criticizing the nefarious trolls? Boric didn't say anything that you should take as a personal attack. Why do you continue inflating this artificial controversy? Are you trolling?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

The manipulative tactics deployed by reactionaries and friends of the apartheid state are intolerable.  Gabriel Boric says in that tweet "thank you for the gift", but also says: " if your commitment to a fairer society is true, you should ask Israel to put and end to the illegal occupation". Certainly asking Israel to be fair and democratic is antisemitic, while endorsing or turning a blind eye to the abhorrent apartheid regime are the norm.

I will tell all the reactionaries, islamophobes,  hasbara trolls and pinkwashers that I have watched the film 'Shoah' at least twice. Also, I don't buy anything made in Israel and don't accept insults from miserable apartheidists

Gabriel Boric serms to be a decent person

If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Well some might respond in that way - would they get called "anti-Chinese" for doing so?

And the irony of a blue avatar calling out AS - given that so many of their sort basically believe "WE SUPPORT ISRAEL SO THAT THEY CAN ALL PERISH IN THE RAPTURE" - has not gone unnoticed

I am Jewish. And if you can point me to anyone saying that, I will condemn that as well. Regardless, this is a thread about Chile. Let's not let whataboutism take us off-topic from Chile's new President.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

Also, follow-up: What? Israel has never annexed the West Bank.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The manipulative tactics deployed by reactionaries and friends of the apartheid state are intolerable.  Gabriel Boric says in that tweet "thank you for the gift", but also says: " if your commitment to a fairer society is true, you should ask Israel to put and end to the illegal occupation". Certainly asking Israel to be fair and democratic is antisemitic, while endorsing or turning a blind eye to the abhorrent apartheid regime are the norm.

I will tell all the reactionaries, islamophobes,  hasbara trolls and pinkwashers that I have watched the film 'Shoah' at least twice. Also, I don't buy anything made in Israel and don't accept insults from miserable apartheidists

Gabriel Boric serms to be a decent person

If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

You have a very good point about how this is starting to verge off topic. So let me just say, as a last word/comment or whatever.
As a Muslim I would say that it would depend based on circumstances if that is Islamophobic, what Trump believes, and so on. Things like this have to be judged individually, as their own thing, taking everything into account. As a corollary: If Boric had a history of Holocaust denial, I would be much more inclined to see this remark of his in a harsher light. Thankfully he doesn't.

[Velasco]

If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

Did you notice that, besides being "the best friend of Israel", Donald Trump is an obvious antisemite? Rabidly pro-Israel antisemites. Are you capable to understand the irony?

Answering to your question, it is totally impossible that a "Ramadan organization" is willing to send a gift to Donald Trump (unless those mean Muslims are trolling, of course)

It happens Donald Trump is also a notorious islamophobe.  Did you know Arabs are a semitic people? Orange haired populists hate brown people

Definitely if the AIPAC or its Chilean counterpart send me a jar of honey, I will ask them to condemn Apartheid Israel.

This thread is going off-topic and derailing thanks to your insidious claims about Boric. Isn't it ironic that you complain for that?

[DavidB.]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Anyway, what do we see in the months and weeks ahead?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

Did you notice that, besides being "the best friend of Israel", Donald Trump is an obvious antisemite? Rabidly pro-Israel antisemites. Are you capable to understand the irony?

Answering to your question, it is totally impossible that a "Ramadan organization" is willing to send a gift to Donald Trump (unless those mean Muslims are trolling, of course)

It happens Donald Trump is also a notorious islamophobe.  Did you know Arabs are a semitic people? Orange haired populists hate brown people

Definitely if the AIPAC or its Chilean counterpart send me a jar of honey, I will ask them to condemn Apartheid Israel.

This thread is going off-topic and derailing thanks to your insidious claims about Boric. Isn't it ironic that you complain for that?

I don't believe Donald Trump is anti-semite.

Here's an Iftar dinner with Donald Trump in attendance, and Muslim-American leaders: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-hosts-first-iftar-dinner-recognizes-islam-one-world-s-n880841.

Anti-Semitism refers to Jew hatred.

This wasn't AIPAC, it was literally the Jewish community of Chile. Here's their webpage, https://www.cjch.cl/, you can see for yourself that it's not some Chilean-Israeli alliance organization.

The new President of Chile's anti-semitic remarks seem pretty directly relevant to a thread on Chilean politics. I'm disappointed that you don't think that's important. I'm also disappointed that you've avoided my earlier question: If an American Muslim group sent a Ramadan gift to Donald Trump, and his response was to ask them why they haven't stopped ISIS, would that be Islamophobic?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

Interesting you bring up Kast. Are you aware of his…family troubles?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

Interesting you bring up Kast. Are you aware of his…family troubles?

You mean his Nazi father? I judge people based off their actions.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

Interesting you bring up Kast. Are you aware of his…family troubles?

You mean his Nazi father? I judge people based off their actions.

I do too. For example, his consistent denial of his father’s Nazism, and his support of the Pinochet government (which had extensive ties to the pedophile Nazi cult Colonia Dignidad). Boric has spoken against his own (wealthy) father’s shady business dealings. Why can’t Kast do the same for literal Nazis?

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

Interesting you bring up Kast. Are you aware of his…family troubles?

You mean his Nazi father? I judge people based off their actions.

I do too. For example, his consistent denial of his father’s Nazism, and his support of the Pinochet government (which had extensive ties to the Nazi cult Colonia Dignidad).

Neither of those are explicitly anti-semitic, though I would obviously prefer he acknowledge and denounce his father's nazism and said elements of the Pinochet government.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

Interesting you bring up Kast. Are you aware of his…family troubles?

You mean his Nazi father? I judge people based off their actions.

I do too. For example, his consistent denial of his father’s Nazism, and his support of the Pinochet government (which had extensive ties to the Nazi cult Colonia Dignidad).

Neither of those are explicitly anti-semitic, though I would obviously prefer he acknowledge and denounce his father's nazism and said elements of the Pinochet government.

Boric makes an improper remark to a Jewish community organization with ties to Israel: antisemitism, outrageous

Kast defends his dad who fought for Hitler and maintains lifelong support of a fascist who loved Nazis: well I’d rather he didn’t

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

While I find Boric's comments to be clearly anti-semitic, albeit in a way that smacks of ignorance rather than prejudice, I find the reactions of the usual suspects on the forum to be far more distasteful. Derailing a thread about Chilean politics to discuss Israel-Palestine issues and anti-Semitism, which are issues of no importance in Chile, smacks of narcissism and betrays a total lack of concern for Latin America.

[kaoras]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

Also, follow-up: What? Israel has never annexed the West Bank.

It was from the time Netanyahu wanted to annex the Jordan Valley.

In any case I find extremely puzzling why you and David take so much issue with this instance but don't see any problem with Kast defending literal nazis or repeatingly calling for the liberation of Miguel Krasnoff (and even saying that the courts "could be wrong" about his 800 years of prison for all his crimes), who said that "Not only is this bitch communist, but she is also Jewish, you have to kill her ” before murdering Diana Arón Svigilisky

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Oh great. Chile elected Jeremy Corbyn. Glad he's not going to have much power.

If Kast had been even 1/10th as antisemitic as this, it would have been in the international media everywhere, including comments on how it is so outrageous for him to be in the runoff.

Interesting you bring up Kast. Are you aware of his…family troubles?

You mean his Nazi father? I judge people based off their actions.

I do too. For example, his consistent denial of his father’s Nazism, and his support of the Pinochet government (which had extensive ties to the Nazi cult Colonia Dignidad).

Neither of those are explicitly anti-semitic, though I would obviously prefer he acknowledge and denounce his father's nazism and said elements of the Pinochet government.

Boric makes an improper remark to a Jewish community organization with ties to Israel: antisemitism, outrageous

Kast defends his dad who fought for Hitler and maintains lifelong support of a fascist who loved Nazis: well I’d rather he didn’t

It's not just improper: it's blatantly anti-semitic. Pinochet was not a fascist, just a murderous dictator. And millions of Germans fought for Hitler: I won't blame Kast for not hating his father for it, so long as his father wasn't an SS member or some high-up murderer.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

While I find Boric's comments to be clearly anti-semitic, albeit in a way that smacks of ignorance rather than prejudice, I find the reactions of the usual suspects on the forum to be far more distasteful. Derailing a thread about Chilean politics to discuss Israel-Palestine issues and anti-Semitism, which are issues of no importance in Chile, smacks of narcissism and betrays a total lack of concern for Latin America.

I honestly just made a snide comment about how Boric was an anti-semite. I didn't expect Velasco and every other anti-Israel poster on this forum to clamber over each other in an effort to desperately assert that "Akchually, asking random Jewish organizations why they haven't driven the Israelis out of the West Bank isn't anti-semitic."

[Libertas Vel Mors]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

Also, follow-up: What? Israel has never annexed the West Bank.

It was from the time Netanyahu wanted to annex the Jordan Valley.

In any case I find extremely puzzling why you and David take so much issue with this instance but don't see any problem with Kast defending literal nazis or repeatingly calling for the liberation of Miguel Krasnoff (and even saying that the courts "could be wrong" about his 800 years of prison for all his crimes), who said that "Not only is this bitch communist, but she is also Jewish, you have to kill her ” before murdering Diana Arón Svigilisky

I do see a problem with defending Nazis, no matter who they are. If you can point me to statements of Kast defending Nazism, I'll be glad to condemn them and Kast.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Holy triple post, Batman. Anyway, Boric has promised to name his cabinet within a month. Siches is guaranteed to be in it, the only question is as health minister or spokeswoman or something else (perhaps the first Prime Minister under a new constitution). Jackson and Vallejo appear to be the other two names that are all but confirmed.

[kaoras]

Holy triple post, Batman. Anyway, Boric has promised to name his cabinet within a month. Siches is guaranteed to be in it, the only question is as health minister or spokeswoman or something else (perhaps the first Prime Minister under a new constitution). Jackson and Vallejo appear to be the other two names that are all but confirmed.

Siches technically has to repay a grant for his medical specialization working in the public health sector, but she could just pay it out of pocket with a minister's salary, though we would never hear the end of it on part of the right.

They are now searching for a minister of Hacienda (the one who runs the economy, and is different from the minister of economy, I can't be bothered to explain the nuances in english), some high profile names have already turned down the offer. There was also speculation regarding PS senator Carlos Montes assuming the interior ministry, but he said that he wanted to make space for the new generations.

[Estrella]

Reminder that Gabriel Boric is an anti-semite whose response to a Rosh Hashanah gift basket from Chilean Jews was to ask why they weren't calling upon Israel to end the occupation:

https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1179498192985116672?lang=en

Oh, the horror. If that's your standard for antisemitism, then right is worse. Just google Ivan Moreira Palestina. My city even was declared a territory free of Israel Apartheid under an UDI mayor

In fact, a senate resolution calling for sanctions to Israel over the anexation of the west bank passed with unanimous support in the Senate, after being presented by an UDI senator

The first thing is anti-semitic, the second isn't. Regardless, I'm not sure that "my whole country is anti-semitic, not just the left" is a good thing.

Also, follow-up: What? Israel has never annexed the West Bank.

It was from the time Netanyahu wanted to annex the Jordan Valley.

In any case I find extremely puzzling why you and David take so much issue with this instance but don't see any problem with Kast defending literal nazis or repeatingly calling for the liberation of Miguel Krasnoff (and even saying that the courts "could be wrong" about his 800 years of prison for all his crimes), who said that "Not only is this bitch communist, but she is also Jewish, you have to kill her ” before murdering Diana Arón Svigilisky

I do see a problem with defending Nazis, no matter who they are. If you can point me to statements of Kast defending Nazism, I'll be glad to condemn them and Kast.

I guess that technically this doesn't fit and I don't expect you to condemn it, but just FYI:

Wartime ID card suggests father of Chilean presidential candidate was Nazi: Report

José Antonio Kast, the right-wing candidate who won the first round of Chile’s presidential election last month, has long denied allegations that his German-born father was a Nazi during World War II. Kast said his father was forced as a young man to enlist in the German Army as it fought the Allies. But a newly unearthed document appears to confirm Michael Kast’s membership in the Nazi party, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

An ID card found in Germany’s Federal Archive with the membership number 9271831 shows that an 18-year-old-man named Michael Kast joined the National Socialist German Workers’ Party — the Nazi party — on Sept. 1, 1942. The Federal Archive couldn’t confirm that it was the same Michael Kast as José Antonio Kast’s father, the AP reported, but the date and place of birth listed on the card are a match.

The document appears to contradict Kast’s narrative of his father’s involvement with the Nazi regime. “When there is a war and [military] enrollment is mandatory, a 17- or 18-year-old doesn’t have the option to say, ‘I’m not going,’ because they will be court martialed and shot to death the very next day,” Kast said on social media, according to the AP. But while military service was mandatory for young men in Germany, membership to the Nazi party was not. “We don’t have a single example of anyone who was forced to enter the party,” German historian Armin Nolzen, who has researched party membership, told the AP.

[kaoras]

Also, the right already started with infighting. Desbordes said that Sichel didn't have any space in the coalition and entered a catfight with Marcela Cubillos. Some guy from Evopoli said that supporting Kast was a mistake and that Evopoli and the Republican Party shouldn't be part of the same coalition.

On the left, Jiles wants the moon to give the left the presidency of the chamber of deputies. PS-PPD-PR-PL are apparently trying to ditch the DC yet again, etc etc. It's politics as usual