COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Hollywood]

So what are the off-ramps now to end restrictions?

Now that the vaccine has been approved for kids as young as 5 for the past 2 months, you never hear anything anymore about ending restrictions.

I don't know what the F you're talking about.  The serious risks are over for anyone under the age 55.  My nephews have had Covid-19 like two times already, and was running around like a maniac.  Stop watching politics and read the studies.  Some of these foreign Science Nerds actually mocking the US and Europe for unnecessarily testing for Covid-19 when isn't even killing anyone that isn't suffering from cancer or other terminal illness.  We're getting fleeced by these pharmaceutical companies.

I'm no longer wearing a mask or abstaining froms ocial gatherings until a dangerous strain comes along.  Vaccinate a young child with the MRNA 2-3 times a year?  Absolutely not.  I have no trust our Medical Officials, and believe the Japanese, South African, India, and South Korean Directors and Uncensored Research cause they never lied to me. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8437699/

If teachers try to make this mandatory, even the vaccinated are going to flip out, because there is absolutely no reason based on the efficacy difference from the placebo, and the possible side-effects of multiple MRNA vaccinations over a long-term.  Most of us are done until further notice. 

[GoTfan]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

[Horus]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

So I see we've reached the point where the zero COVID crowd just calls anyone who understands transmissibility and basic science a sociopath.

[Hollywood]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

So I see we've reached the point where the zero COVID crowd just calls anyone who understands transmissibility and basic science a sociopath.

Dude... I've posted scientific studies, and get nothing back from you guys except for talking points. 

It's all moot at this point.  The Debate has turned against the Democrat policies at the moment. 

And I understand Transmissibility being an EMT.  Body Safety is Chapter 2.

[Horus]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

So I see we've reached the point where the zero COVID crowd just calls anyone who understands transmissibility and basic science a sociopath.

Dude... I've posted scientific studies, and get nothing back from you guys except for talking points. 

It's all moot at this point.  The Debate has turned against the Democrat policies at the moment. 

And I understand Transmissibility being an EMT.  Body Safety is Chapter 2.

This... wasn't at all in reference to you? But okay

[compucomp]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior. But it's not enough for this forum, as they are actually the authoritarian ones. They want a coerced return to the normal of 2019, regardless of what COVID is doing and the threat it poses. They want to deny us the freedom to take COVID seriously and change our behavior to protect ourselves. In their world, masks and hand sanitizer would be controlled substances, COVID would be a censored word, all testing would stop, and WFH and takeout/delivery services would be banned.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

[Hollywood]

Jimmy Dore completely dismembers Slate article where author fabricates government policies more with debunked Fascist Democrat talking points, but the title analyzes the Vaccine Mandate case before the Supreme Court.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REJa6wc-Jfk

Democrats do not get the news, because they don't want the news.  If all you've read is Democrat smut that continues to disseminated Covid Misinformation, you have no business telling people how to conduct themselves.

[compucomp]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

[Hollywood]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

They obstruct people from breathing, and they tell toddlers not to wear them.  At least they did when I was an EMT.  

They can cause headaches from a build up of carbon dioxide, particularly the N95

They fog my glasses which impairs my vision and ability to work, and they can mess with the site of people that don't wear glasses.  

They cause psychological issues for children.

Seriously, how uninformed are you guys that still don't that masks have side effects.  This has been settled science for decades.  And the new studies on kids are particularly distressing.  

Don't get F-ing mad us cause you don't read anything of scientific substance. 

[Hammy]

So what are the off-ramps now to end restrictions?

Now that the vaccine has been approved for kids as young as 5 for the past 2 months, you never hear anything anymore about ending restrictions.

I don't know what the F you're talking about.  The serious risks are over for anyone under the age 55.  My nephews have had Covid-19 like two times already, and was running around like a maniac.  Stop watching politics and read the studies.  Some of these foreign Science Nerds actually mocking the US and Europe for unnecessarily testing for Covid-19 when isn't even killing anyone that isn't suffering from cancer or other terminal illness.  We're getting fleeced by these pharmaceutical companies.

I'm no longer wearing a mask or abstaining froms ocial gatherings until a dangerous strain comes along.  Vaccinate a young child with the MRNA 2-3 times a year?  Absolutely not.  I have no trust our Medical Officials, and believe the Japanese, South African, India, and South Korean Directors and Uncensored Research cause they never lied to me. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8437699/

If teachers try to make this mandatory, even the vaccinated are going to flip out, because there is absolutely no reason based on the efficacy difference from the placebo, and the possible side-effects of multiple MRNA vaccinations over a long-term.  Most of us are done until further notice. 

Any black and white study that's looking solely at deaths and cases is going to be flawed, because those aren't the only things to keep in mind--and the wording of the study made it abundantly clear that it was done with intent of reaching a predetermined outcome to feed an existing narrative.

Human beings are being affected, and this study treats them merely as numbers that don't matter if they don't fall into a binary category of either "infected/uninfected" or "lived/died." This isn't something you can apply financial-brain logic to.

The vaccine has been successful in stopping severe disease and hospitalization. I suppose you forget that children do eventually grow up, and children infected with covid have weaker immune systems and health complications. There's been a drastic rise in Type 1 and 2 diabetes among children who have recovered for instance. Another matter is, as the virus intensity is weakened through widespread vaccination, breakthrough infections (which are increasingly mild) will continue to train the immune system so that it can evolve with the virus.

Deciding children shouldn't be vaccinated is basically telling them they are not worth having a full life, because by the time they get to their 20s, 30s, and 40s they'll have medical conditions and be much higher risk than the rest of the population by that age, because some ill-informed nutjobs who had the sole say in the matter decided the here and now was all that mattered.

[compucomp]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

I am so whiny and entitled I can't tolerate minor inconveniences to contain a deadly pandemic.

Fixed it for you.

[Hollywood]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

I am so whiny and entitled I can't tolerate minor inconveniences to contain a deadly pandemic.

Fixed it for you.

Wearing mask for two years is not a minor inconvenience.  That's a huge life change for someone that wears a mask for 8 hours a day.

I'm listening to the Democrat arguing with Justice Alito, because she won't answer any questions.  Alito asks him to repeat the question and she says something completely different.  Then he gets her to admit that the vaccines have side effects, because she can't lie in court.   

[Roll Roons]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

I am so whiny and entitled I can't tolerate minor inconveniences to contain a deadly pandemic.

Fixed it for you.

IT'S NOT DEADLY OR DANGEROUS IF YOU'RE VACCINATED. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL ALREADY!

[It’s so Joever]

Still have not heard a rational argument against using hospital capacity as the primary metric in determining whether we need restrictions or not in certain areas.

Biggest problem these days though may not even be capacity, it could be just that so many staff are infected that they can’t go in (and having infected healthcare workers treat already at risk patients is…not really an option for obvious reasons lol)

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1480212120595742723
Early Data Hints at Omicron’s Potential Toll Across America

The extremely transmissible Omicron variant is spreading quickly across the United States, making up a vast majority of U.S. cases after becoming dominant in the week before Christmas.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have said that it is still too soon to predict the full impact Omicron could have on deaths and illness across the country. But data in some of the earliest-hit cities is beginning to show what the future could hold.

In Chicago there are already more people on ventilation than during the last winter.

Since vaccines became available, those who are vaccinated have been far less likely to be hospitalized with severe Covid-19 than those who are unvaccinated. Early data from New York City shows that the vaccination gap in hospitalizations became even wider during the first weeks of the city’s Omicron surge.

Vaccinated patients are more likely to experience milder disease, doctors have said, and a vast majority of Omicron patients who require intensive care are unvaccinated or have severely compromised immune systems.

Omicron is already more severe in US (cities) than it was UK/SA. A lot of "mildness" is explained by immunity, either "natural" like in SA (90%) or vaccinated/boosted/both like in UK.

And NY is relatively well-vaxxed and has high natural immunity compared to the average of US.

[Aurelius]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior. But it's not enough for this forum, as they are actually the authoritarian ones. They want a coerced return to the normal of 2019, regardless of what COVID is doing and the threat it poses. They want to deny us the freedom to take COVID seriously and change our behavior to protect ourselves. In their world, masks and hand sanitizer would be controlled substances, COVID would be a censored word, all testing would stop, and WFH and takeout/delivery services would be banned.

You have the right to never leave your house again and outsource the risk to the working class through instacart, etc. You do not have the right to force everyone else to do the same. And even private educational institutions have duties to the public that they should not be allowed to abdicate out of misguided hysteria while continuing to rake in profit from an inferior product.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I think the big problem is that the risk a COVID infection poses to someone who has been triply vaxxed has dropped significantly as the pandemic has worn on, even in the midst of this Omicron surge, but the risk COVID is currently posing to our society and infrastructure is huge because of how infectious it is and because of how many hospitalizations we’ll have to deal with among the unvaccinated.

Individual ease but collective peril is sort of hard to wrap our minds around, and it makes it easy for us to throw up our hands in frustration and say we’re finished. But even for those of us who have done the right thing, an overwhelmed hospital system and a fire department running at 35% really isn’t good.

So if the reality is that our society is still under threat even if our own lives are less so, what do we do? I am done sacrificing, and honestly, I think that’s fair. Seems to me we need to marginalize and exclude the unvaccinated as much as we possibly can in order to suppress their case rates and keep them from clogging up hospitals. That’s easy to say in British Columbia where we’re at, like, 90% vaccinated, because society is on board… but what do you do in places where 40% of the people, including many of the people who are running things, are not on board? Compliance with any measure to exclude the unvaccinated is going to be pretty low in some parts of the country. Long story short, the US really is in a bind.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Interesting data from UK.

https://twitter.com/PaulMainwood/status/1479528897259712513



So boosters vs 2 dosses reduce risk of hospitalization by ~50% for 50+.

[compucomp]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior. But it's not enough for this forum, as they are actually the authoritarian ones. They want a coerced return to the normal of 2019, regardless of what COVID is doing and the threat it poses. They want to deny us the freedom to take COVID seriously and change our behavior to protect ourselves. In their world, masks and hand sanitizer would be controlled substances, COVID would be a censored word, all testing would stop, and WFH and takeout/delivery services would be banned.

You have the right to never leave your house again and outsource the risk to the working class through instacart, etc. You do not have the right to force everyone else to do the same. And even private educational institutions have duties to the public that they should not be allowed to abdicate out of misguided hysteria while continuing to rake in profit from an inferior product.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. There are no government restrictions closing any business nor preventing you from doing anything; mask mandates don't count. You won that battle, but it's clearly not enough for you, because it just so happens that in a free market system, if 30% of the population changes its behavior, businesses have to respond. This is why conventions, concerts, holiday parties, etc are being cancelled and restaurants are closing their dining rooms. The government did exactly nothing to cause that. So now you reveal yourself as a full-on authoritarian by forcing your risk assessment of COVID on the whole population and denying us the freedom to treat COVID seriously and protect ourselves. You even confirm this with the second part of your statement. I don't ever want to hear about "freedom" again on COVID from the likes of you because you revealed that argument to be a complete and total lie.

[GoTfan]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

So I see we've reached the point where the zero COVID crowd just calls anyone who understands transmissibility and basic science a sociopath.

Waah! I don't want to wear a tiny bit of cloth on my face! Waah!

[Aurelius]

The last few pages are seemingly an exercise in collective sociopathy and lack of any coherent idea part from rubbishing anyone who says that restrictions are still necessary, even if the evidence backs them up.

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior. But it's not enough for this forum, as they are actually the authoritarian ones. They want a coerced return to the normal of 2019, regardless of what COVID is doing and the threat it poses. They want to deny us the freedom to take COVID seriously and change our behavior to protect ourselves. In their world, masks and hand sanitizer would be controlled substances, COVID would be a censored word, all testing would stop, and WFH and takeout/delivery services would be banned.

You have the right to never leave your house again and outsource the risk to the working class through instacart, etc. You do not have the right to force everyone else to do the same. And even private educational institutions have duties to the public that they should not be allowed to abdicate out of misguided hysteria while continuing to rake in profit from an inferior product.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. There are no government restrictions closing any business nor preventing you from doing anything; mask mandates don't count. You won that battle, but it's clearly not enough for you, because it just so happens that in a free market system, if 30% of the population changes its behavior, businesses have to respond. This is why conventions, concerts, holiday parties, etc are being cancelled and restaurants are closing their dining rooms. The government did exactly nothing to cause that. So now you reveal yourself as a full-on authoritarian by forcing your risk assessment of COVID on the whole population and denying us the freedom to treat COVID seriously and protect ourselves. You even confirm this with the second part of your statement. I don't ever want to hear about "freedom" again on COVID from the likes of you because you revealed that argument to be a complete and total lie.

I'm not forcing my risk assessment on the entire population, and that's an incredible piece of projection.

If someone wants to never leave their house again, that's their prerogative.

If someone wants to triple mask, avoid all social gatherings, and avoid eating indoors, that's their prerogative.

If someone wants to avoid travel, that's their prerogative.

I have loved ones who are doing things like this and while I strongly disagree with their approach I have no problem with them choosing to do it and reacting to the virus as their risk/benefit calculus sees fit.

It is those advocated for continued NPIs who are forcing their risk/benefit calculus on the entire population. This is such a simple and self evident point that I feel no need to belabor it.

I've also never said restaurants, bars, etc should be forced to stay open. The only area of private institutional choices where I've advocated state intervention is private higher ed, which is a realm with a unique level of public impact and responsibility which, furthermore, just so happens to be charging record high fees for an inferior product that is also cheaper to administer.

"Freedom" doesn't simply mean "authoritarianism is when the government does stuff, and the less the government does, the more freedomer it is". I'm not a doctrinaire libertarian and I consider that an asinine doctrine. A crucial part of freedom is the ability to live a normal human life free of absurd, unjustified impingement. If carefully targeted government action enhances that ability, then it's a pro-freedom intervention, not an anti-freedom one.

[cg41386]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

They obstruct people from breathing, and they tell toddlers not to wear them.  At least they did when I was an EMT.  Hasn't obstructed my breathing, don't know anyone else it has

They can cause headaches from a build up of carbon dioxide, particularly the N95 see above

They fog my glasses which impairs my vision and ability to work, and they can mess with the site of people that don't wear glasses.  there are ways to get around that

They cause psychological issues for children. I work with children, and not one is showing any psychological issues due to mask wearing

Seriously, how uninformed are you guys that still don't that masks have side effects.  This has been settled science for decades.  And the new studies on kids are particularly distressing.  You should post these "studies" as most of your claims seem like BS or grossly exaggerated

Don't get F-ing mad us cause you don't read anything of scientific substance. Sure thing, boo.

[Frodo]

New thread.

Old thread: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=370528.0

"COVID-19 Megathread 6: The Delta Variant Strikes Back"
---------------

Virginia, if you are not going to start a brand new COVID megathread, can you at least update the title of this one?  

[cg41386]

Exactly! This forum has seriously lost its mind on the subject of COVID. They claim to be "pro-freedom", but they've already won that battle in the US; there are no government policies causing any business shutdown or restricting any behavior.

There's mask mandates all over the place now.

For the thousandth time, mask mandates don't prevent anyone from doing anything. Exceptions are always carved out for food/drink serving establishments.

I am so whiny and entitled I can't tolerate minor inconveniences to contain a deadly pandemic.

Fixed it for you.

Wearing mask for two years is not a minor inconvenience.  That's a huge life change for someone that wears a mask for 8 hours a day.

I'm listening to the Democrat arguing with Justice Alito, because she won't answer any questions.  Alito asks him to repeat the question and she says something completely different.  Then he gets her to admit that the vaccines have side effects, because she can't lie in court.   

It is a minor inconvenience. There are so many other things that are inconveniences, this isn't one of them. And, god willing. it won't be necessary sooner than later.