COVID-19 Megathread 6: Return of the Omicron

[Matty]

The state of Washington is now reporting more daily deaths than at any point since pandemic began.

[politicallefty]

I know I said I wasn't going to post here, but I feel I must for the first time in awhile. My trust in the vaccines has not wavered, but my trust in the American medical establishment as a whole is extremely low. The CDC is all over the place and the FDA seems to be even worse. I still trust certain individuals, but that is it.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more protest from the pro-vax, pro-choice progressive left demanding more vaccine freedom, in the form of being able to choose their type of vaccine, choose to get booster, choose to vaccinate their children, etc.   There is certainly much more scientific evidence in favor of these positions than those of the anti-vax right.

We do have some of that already. You can choose what vaccine you want. If you don't want a particular vaccine, you can go somewhere else. When I set up my first appointment, I called and asked what vaccine they had. I wanted either the Pfizer or Moderna, but not the J&J. I would've cancelled if it wasn't what I wanted to hear. However, most online resources then and now tell you what vaccines are being offered.

I agree that boosters should be offered to those that want them. However, I do think we need to wait for final approval for those under 12. I would go one step further than you and say that anyone 12+ should be able to get the vaccine, regardless of parental consent/approval. The line between parental consent/approval and the right of bodily autonomy for children is a fine line, but vaccines should always be encouraged in every way possible. A 12-year-old may not be able to consent to major surgery, but they should have the right to accept a vaccination.

[DaleCooper]

I know I said I wasn't going to post here, but I feel I must for the first time in awhile. My trust in the vaccines has not wavered, but my trust in the American medical establishment as a whole is extremely low. The CDC is all over the place and the FDA seems to be even worse. I still trust certain individuals, but that is it.

I agree with this as well. From what I can gather, the Moderna vaccine doesn't have any meaningful decline in protection so far, and neither does Johnson & Johnson. Vulnerable people like the elderly may need boosters just to be safe, but healthy people that aren't at risk probably don't, unless they just want the added protection in the case of J&J due to its somewhat weaker protection. That seems to be the consensus on those two, from what I can gather.

The information regarding Pfizer on the other hand is a complete disaster. We have no idea what's wrong with it, why its immunity wanes, whether or not the booster immunity will wane just as fast, and we don't even know if only the protection against breakthrough cases wanes or if its protection against severe illnesses wane too. I've made my opinion clear on how I feel about wasting more credibility on prioritizing boosters when we still need to vaccinate all of the country's children and most of the third world. However, if Pfizer really is weak enough to put everybody who received it at risk again, then we have a right to know that. I got the Pfizer vaccine, and I want to know if I'm safe without a booster and I also want to know if these boosters are going to be a perpetual, endless thing, because if that's the case then I just want to receive the Moderna or J&J instead, so I need to know if that's safe too. Point being, I have the overwhelming feeling that we're not getting straight information and I find it frustrating that they can't just be straightforward about these things.

[Hammy]

We do have some of that already. You can choose what vaccine you want. If you don't want a particular vaccine, you can go somewhere else.

Congratulations, you're now using the exact same language anti-abortion activists are using to validate restrictive laws.

If you have to use time and money (that you likely don't have) to get something, then you don't have a choice.

[politicallefty]

I agree with this as well. From what I can gather, the Moderna vaccine doesn't have any meaningful decline in protection so far, and neither does Johnson & Johnson. Vulnerable people like the elderly may need boosters just to be safe, but healthy people that aren't at risk probably don't, unless they just want the added protection in the case of J&J due to its somewhat weaker protection. That seems to be the consensus on those two, from what I can gather.

The information regarding Pfizer on the other hand is a complete disaster. We have no idea what's wrong with it, why its immunity wanes, whether or not the booster immunity will wane just as fast, and we don't even know if only the protection against breakthrough cases wanes or if its protection against severe illnesses wane too. I've made my opinion clear on how I feel about wasting more credibility on prioritizing boosters when we still need to vaccinate all of the country's children and most of the third world. However, if Pfizer really is weak enough to put everybody who received it at risk again, then we have a right to know that. I got the Pfizer vaccine, and I want to know if I'm safe without a booster and I also want to know if these boosters are going to be a perpetual, endless thing, because if that's the case then I just want to receive the Moderna or J&J instead, so I need to know if that's safe too. Point being, I have the overwhelming feeling that we're not getting straight information and I find it frustrating that they can't just be straightforward about these things.

That's not what I meant. The Pfizer vaccine is the most studied amongst all the vaccines. Pfizer literally had an agreement with Israel that entailed studying how the vaccine would work. The J&J vaccine is the real black sheep amongst the big 3 offered here in the states. I heard one doctor say that this should have ultimately been released as a 3-series shot. I had Pfizer as well, btw. I had my second shot in late April. I'm perfectly happy with that. I wouldn't have preferred the J&J.

We do have some of that already. You can choose what vaccine you want. If you don't want a particular vaccine, you can go somewhere else.

Congratulations, you're now using the exact same language anti-abortion activists are using to validate restrictive laws.

If you have to use time and money (that you likely don't have) to get something, then you don't have a choice.

That wasn't my point at all. Maybe it was easier for me on account of having multiple places available nearby. I got my Pfizer vaccine at a Walgreens on an intersection around 10 minutes away from where I live. Less than a quarter mile down the road was a Rite-Aid that offered Moderna. About a mile or so further was Walmart that offered both Moderna and J&J. I took the quickest appointment back when you had to basically fight for them. For reference, I live in pretty plain suburbia.

[Hollywood]

The conclusion is based on statistical data that doesn't match up with the conclusions made by studies examining case information with problematic data from January to February.  For example, one study showing vaccine effectiveness was conducted only on hospital workers that were previously infected by Covid-19, but those results were biased cause one can not tell if the vaccine was effective due to the patient likely gaining natural immunity (13 times more effective).  

Another issue with the earlier data is that vaccinated patients were tested using PCRs at a CT of 28 while 40 was used for the unvaccinated.  A CT of 40 results in a patient being 32 times more likely to test positive for Covid-19.  file:///Users/newguest/Downloads/cdc_105217_DS1.pdf

Also, in later statistical protocol, a patient would not be counted as fully vaccinated until a full 14 days have passed since your second injection in the case of Pfizer or Moderna, or 14 days after your first dose of Janssen.  So someone with one dose or a second dose less than 14 days from a shot were not represented in statistics.  They would be recorded as unvaccinated.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/downloads/COVID-vaccine-breakthrough-case-investigations-Protocol.pdf

The later statistical data from Israel and the UK in the months of April to June started accounting for these differences.  Remarkably, the studies showed that 30,305 patients died 21 days after receiving a vaccine, but those were not listed as Covid-19 deaths.  That panel pointed to those types of statistical anomalies as well as studies demonstrating side effects to determine that a third booster was not 'not safe' for people under the age of 65.  https://theexpose.uk/2021/09/15/30k-people-died-within-21-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-england/

You really have to find that document with the questions and conclusions made by panelists.  They concluded that the data provided by those studies were not been properly reviewed by Federal agencies or peer-reviewed.  
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/fda-panel-rejects-plan-to-administer-pfizers-covid-booster-doses-to-general-public/ar-AAOyT3N

[Hollywood]

They said there are risks to distributing boosters too soon, including the potential for side effects such as a rare heart inflammation condition known as myocarditis, which is more common after the second dose of mRNA vaccines.

“If unnecessary boosting causes significant adverse reactions, there could be implications for vaccine acceptance that go beyond COVID-19 vaccines,” they wrote.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/covid-booster-shots-data-shows-third-shots-not-appropriate-at-this-time-scientists-conclude.html

BTW... This week, my mother and I are currently dealing with Covid-19.  She was very sick on Wednesday with a fever and vomiting, but I took a risk driving her up to get one of those shots.  She was better the next day despite being immunocompromised.  Saved her life.  My sister in-law also had the same results the next day.  I know dozens of people that recovered immediately after taking the shot.  People over 65 that were vaccinated and unvaccinated. 

Anyone that is against monocholoidal antibodies is a complete F-ing idiot.  The science demonstrates that it works.  I've seen it work.  Democrats need STFU about this treatment.  It is saving lives.  It is so effective that even crazy Vaxxer-Nazis are taking it.  50% of monocholoidal antibody patients are vaccinated, and that's almost as many people that are vaccinated in my state. 

[Dr. Arch]

Great. Another resident anti-vaxer. It's not surprising who it is, I suppose.

[Inmate Trump]

Wow

Where do these people come from?

[Bandit3 the Worker]

I was on a trip to Fernandina Beach, Fla., all week. People have pretty much forgotten about COVID.

An exception was a town on the way home that still has a mask mandate. Someone told me that the motel there was very militant about enforcing it, so I stayed clear of indoor common areas there instead of dealing with that nonsense like it's still March 2020. I also didn't walk around outdoors with a mask.

[Hollywood]

I was on a trip to Fernandina Beach, Fla., all week. People have pretty much forgotten about COVID.

An exception was a town on the way home that still has a mask mandate. Someone told me that the motel there was very militant about enforcing it, so I stayed clear of indoor common areas there instead of dealing with that nonsense like it's still March 2020. I also didn't walk around outdoors with a mask.

Yeah.  It's nice. I guess not at that particular establishment. You just be respectful of other people's medical decisions.  But like crazy mask people should be avoided.  I don't do business with them. Like I wear a mask, but not outdoors.  Some people don't wear one at all, and I've adjust to that reality by going through drive through or quickly pick up food instead of eating indoors. 

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Wow

Where do these people come from?

Thirty years of right-wing talk radio, Fox News, and no Fairness Doctrine, I suspect.

[Hollywood]

Wow

Where do these people come from?

Thirty years of right-wing talk radio, Fox News, and no Fairness Doctrine, I suspect.

Why did Democrats censor the dangerous side-effects of vaccines discussed by the Doctors during the FDA panel?  This woman's little sister didn't have to die. 
https://rumble.com/vmg44h-my-little-sister-just-died-from-her-first-dose.html

[The Dowager Mod]

Wow

Where do these people come from?

Thirty years of right-wing talk radio, Fox News, and no Fairness Doctrine, I suspect.

Why did Democrats censor the dangerous side-effects of vaccines discussed by the Doctors during the FDA panel?  This woman's little sister didn't have to die. 
https://rumble.com/vmg44h-my-little-sister-just-died-from-her-first-dose.html

And Nikki Minaj's cousins friends nutz didn't have to swell up either.

[Biden his time]

Florida Data Release came out!

Great news inside, with positivity rates continuing to fall statewide.

Cumulative Confirmed Cases: 3,485,163

AUG 19 - 3,027,528 (+150,226 New Weekly, +5.22%) (20.5% Positivity Rate)
AUG 26 - 3,179,408 (+151,880 New Weekly, +5.02%) (17.3% Positivity Rate)
SEP 03 - 3,309,219 (+129,811 New Weekly, +4.08%) (15.5% Positivity Rate)
SEP 10 - 3,409,257 (+100,038 New Weekly, +3.02%) (13.7% Positivity Rate)
SEP 17 - 3,485,163 (+75,906 New Weekly, +2.23%) (11.2% Positivity Rate)

Cumulative Confirmed Deaths: 51,240

As for deaths, I'll just show you all the graph, and not the actual numbers, because the numbers, they just don't add up. There's a lack of data here, so older deaths are constantly being added onto the logs, and not all the newer deaths are here yet.

The likely date when deaths peaked, though, was the week of September 03 to September 09, so that tells us there are around 4K to 5K deaths that haven't been counted yet as of today.

Image Link

[Biden his time]

Maps directly comparing last week's preliminary county positivity rates with this week's preliminary positivity rates county-by-county in the state of Florida:

Image Link SEP 03 - SEP 09

Image Link SEP 10 - SEP 17


Big counties with dropping positivity rates over the past week!

6.5% to 5.8% Miami-Dade County
9.4% to 7.8%  Broward County
11.6% to 10.0% Palm Beach County
16.5% to 12.5% Hillsborough County
12.6% to 10.5% Orange County
12.7% to 10.6% Duval County
14.7% to 11.8% Pinellas County

[roxas11]

I was on a trip to Fernandina Beach, Fla., all week. People have pretty much forgotten about COVID.

An exception was a town on the way home that still has a mask mandate. Someone told me that the motel there was very militant about enforcing it, so I stayed clear of indoor common areas there instead of dealing with that nonsense like it's still March 2020. I also didn't walk around outdoors with a mask.

Its kind of crazy to hear that People have pretty much forgotten about COVID because recently me and my family have been dealing with a covid outbreak

Now in my case it was a breakthrough infection since I had been vaccinated, but many of my other family members had not been vaccinated. I have to say hearing about covid on the news is one thing, but it's nothing compared to seeing just how dangerous this virus is up close. In a span of only a few days people around me started getting very sick and 3 had to be hospitalized because before anybody even knew what hit them the virus had spread like wildfire. I was the only 1 who had mild symptoms

What angers me the most about all of this is that my mother was among those who caught the virus and she actually wanted to get the shot, but was convinced not to do it because other family members showed her some anti-vax BS that they saw on Facebook. she ended getting pneumonia but thankfully she made a very strong recovery and is now doing well. I'm just glad that nobody ended up dying because of this and hopefully this incident will teach many in my family to not listen to what those idiots on Facebook is telling them about the vaccines

[It’s so Joever]

I was on a trip to Fernandina Beach, Fla., all week. People have pretty much forgotten about COVID.

An exception was a town on the way home that still has a mask mandate. Someone told me that the motel there was very militant about enforcing it, so I stayed clear of indoor common areas there instead of dealing with that nonsense like it's still March 2020. I also didn't walk around outdoors with a mask.

Its kind of crazy to hear that People have pretty much forgotten about COVID because recently me and my family have been dealing with a covid outbreak

Now in my case it was a breakthrough infection since I had been vaccinated, but many of my other family members had not been vaccinated. I have to say hearing about covid on the news is one thing, but it's nothing compared to seeing just how dangerous this virus is up close. In a span of only a few days people around me started getting very sick and 3 had to be hospitalized because before anybody even knew what hit them the virus had spread like wildfire. I was the only 1 who had mild symptoms

What angers me the most about all of this is that my mother was among those who caught the virus and she actually wanted to get the shot, but was convinced not to do it because other family members showed her some anti-vax BS that they saw on Facebook. she ended getting pneumonia but thanklully she made a very strong recovery and is now doing well. I'm just glad that nobody ended up dying because of this and hopefully this incident will teach many in my family to not listen to what those idiots on Facebook is telling them about the vaccines

I’m so sorry, it’s just downright infuriating that in the midst of all this, people are still getting caught in the traps of misinfo.

[Person Man]

They said there are risks to distributing boosters too soon, including the potential for side effects such as a rare heart inflammation condition known as myocarditis, which is more common after the second dose of mRNA vaccines.

“If unnecessary boosting causes significant adverse reactions, there could be implications for vaccine acceptance that go beyond COVID-19 vaccines,” they wrote.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/13/covid-booster-shots-data-shows-third-shots-not-appropriate-at-this-time-scientists-conclude.html

BTW... This week, my mother and I are currently dealing with Covid-19.  She was very sick on Wednesday with a fever and vomiting, but I took a risk driving her up to get one of those shots.  She was better the next day despite being immunocompromised.  Saved her life.  My sister in-law also had the same results the next day.  I know dozens of people that recovered immediately after taking the shot.  People over 65 that were vaccinated and unvaccinated. 

Anyone that is against monocholoidal antibodies is a complete F-ing idiot.  The science demonstrates that it works.  I've seen it work.  Democrats need STFU about this treatment.  It is saving lives.  It is so effective that even crazy Vaxxer-Nazis are taking it.  50% of monocholoidal antibody patients are vaccinated, and that's almost as many people that are vaccinated in my state. 

Stem cell research saves lives but treatment is not an alternative to prophylactics. A treatment oriented approach would encourage irresponsibility. It’s definitely great that it exists but it isn’t a replacement. It’s ironic that nationalists are now treating their COVID this way.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

I know I said I wasn't going to post here, but I feel I must for the first time in awhile. My trust in the vaccines has not wavered, but my trust in the American medical establishment as a whole is extremely low. The CDC is all over the place and the FDA seems to be even worse. I still trust certain individuals, but that is it.

I agree with this as well. From what I can gather, the Moderna vaccine doesn't have any meaningful decline in protection so far, and neither does Johnson & Johnson. Vulnerable people like the elderly may need boosters just to be safe, but healthy people that aren't at risk probably don't, unless they just want the added protection in the case of J&J due to its somewhat weaker protection. That seems to be the consensus on those two, from what I can gather.

The information regarding Pfizer on the other hand is a complete disaster. We have no idea what's wrong with it, why its immunity wanes, whether or not the booster immunity will wane just as fast, and we don't even know if only the protection against breakthrough cases wanes or if its protection against severe illnesses wane too. I've made my opinion clear on how I feel about wasting more credibility on prioritizing boosters when we still need to vaccinate all of the country's children and most of the third world. However, if Pfizer really is weak enough to put everybody who received it at risk again, then we have a right to know that. I got the Pfizer vaccine, and I want to know if I'm safe without a booster and I also want to know if these boosters are going to be a perpetual, endless thing, because if that's the case then I just want to receive the Moderna or J&J instead, so I need to know if that's safe too. Point being, I have the overwhelming feeling that we're not getting straight information and I find it frustrating that they can't just be straightforward about these things.

"I have right to know that".

But there is plenty of info. FDA panel didn't make their decision out of the blue. Healthy young people doesn't really need any booster (for now).

https://www.ft.com/content/cf83b3a1-fe06-4c9f-999c-7500090aee7c
Why are Covid vaccine boosters needed and who in the UK will receive them?
Britain is joining nine other countries that have announced similar programmes offering an additional jab

Boosters are aimed at combating the waning immunity that has prompted an uptick in infections even among highly vaccinated populations. The level of protection provided by vaccines against severe disease and death wanes in the period beyond three months after a second dose, according to data published on Tuesday by Public Health England.

The rate of waning was found to be steepest among the most elderly and those with serious underlying health conditions.

“A booster programme for Covid-19 vaccines among the higher-risk adult population is a natural follow-on from the observed waning in vaccine effectiveness as time from the completion of primary two-shot vaccination course extends,” said Penny Ward, visiting professor in pharmaceutical medicine at King’s College London.

“Despite this being an apparently low fall-off [in immunity] — for example from 90 to 80 per cent protection — on a population basis that small difference is likely to translate into significant numbers of people needing hospital care for Covid.”

[...]

The UK booster rollout will begin next week, with elderly care-home residents to be offered jabs first. This will be followed by adults aged 50 years or over in age cohorts, frontline health and social care workers and younger adults with underlying health conditions.

People caring for or living with vulnerable adults will also be eligible. But no one will be offered a third vaccination less than six months after their second jab.

There are no plans to give additional jabs to people aged under 50 this year. “The benefits of booster vaccination in this group will be considered later when more information is available,” Public Health England said in a statement.

As you see, for healthy people the effectiveness [against hospital admission] barely moves. Even for healthy 65+ it went from ~99% to ~95% almost 5+ months after. For 40-64, it at 98% 4 months after... If you're younger, then it is likely even higher.

If you AstraZeneca or if you're old or is "clinically extremely vulnerable", then, of course, booster is a given thing. If you wounder about the definition of "clinically extremely vulnerable", here you go https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/people-at-higher-risk/who-is-at-high-risk-from-coronavirus-clinically-extremely-vulnerable/

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Clinically extremely vulnerable list
You're considered clinically extremely vulnerable if:

• your doctor or GP has classed you as clinically extremely vulnerable because they think you're at high risk of getting seriously ill
• you've been identified as possibly being at high risk through the COVID-19 Population Risk Assessment
• you've had an organ transplant
• you're having chemotherapy or antibody treatment for cancer, including immunotherapy
• you're having an intense course of radiotherapy (radical radiotherapy) for lung cancer
• you're having targeted cancer treatments that can affect the immune system (such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors)
• you have blood or bone marrow cancer (such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma)
• you've had a bone marrow or stem cell transplant in the past 6 months, or are still taking immunosuppressant medicine
• you've been told by a doctor you have a severe lung condition (such as cystic fibrosis, severe asthma or severe COPD)
• you have a condition that means you have a very high risk of getting infections (such as SCID or sickle cell)
• you're taking medicine that makes you much more likely to get infections (such as high doses of steroids or immunosuppressant medicine)
• you have a serious heart condition and are pregnant
• you have a problem with your spleen or your spleen has been removed (splenectomy)
• you're an adult with Down's syndrome
• you're an adult who is having dialysis or has severe (stage 5) long-term kidney disease

Important
This list may not include everyone who is at high risk from COVID-19 and may change as we learn more about the virus.

Here is a thread with much more interesting stats from the FT journo.
https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1438100712441974786

[emailking]

We had 3 2000+ death days this week. I think we will break 2500 next week.

Cases appear to be clearly declining now, but still ~150K a day.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

They say that Covid won't be Eradicated completely even by 2024/ we will still be in masks and social distancing, this is our future

Everyone isn't going to Ivy League schools, Dorms are closed and taking out 200 K in student loans is a thing of the past

Most people aren't even becoming doctors, anymore, they are going to Nursing school, no 200K debt

So, us getting back to where we were of 2019/ is a thing of the past now, we are stuck with masks and social distancing

If we remove masks anyways people will be coughing all over you anyways

[Bandit3 the Worker]

They say that Covid won't be Eradicated completely even by 2024/ we will still be in masks and social distancing, this is our future

Nope.

COVID was probably never going to be completely eradicated, but nobody is putting up with this for that long. They barely do now.

I went to Oktoberfest in Cincinnati yesterday, and everyone was packed together with no masks. People even packed onto the streetcar with no masks, even though the streetcar claims to require them.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1439620766077698048

[DINGO Joe]

https://twitter.com/biannagolodryga/status/1439620766077698048

This being Atlas, we covered that a few months back

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=441658.msg8077283#msg8077283