Voter suppresion/"stealing the election" megathread

[Non Swing Voter]

Great news on the Nessel front:

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/2020/12/23/gop-attorneys-could-face-sanctions-over-falsehoods-pressed-in-michigan-election-lawsuits/

“These are flagrant lies that Ms. Powell is submitting it to of all places the United States Supreme Court of all places in some cases. It’s disturbing and it undermines our entire profession, and she has to be held accountable,” Nessel said in an interview Tuesday. “We’d be asking there be action taken against her law license including potentially disbarment.”

[DINGO Joe]

Meet one of Madame Kraken's secret experts who's "work" is repeatedly include in the Kraken's lawsuits as evidence.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/sidney-powells-secret-intelligence-contractor-witness-is-a-pro-trump-podcaster/2020/12/24/d5a1ab9e-4403-11eb-a277-49a6d1f9dff1_story.html

She's a nobody in North Dakota with no expertise in anything and a continual thorn in the side of the State AG who has been prosecuting her for consumer fraud.  Of course the ND AG is one of those drooling traitor's who signed into the Texas AG effort to throw out results from other states.  Nothing but a sea of the dregs of humanity.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342624069687062528

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342624069687062528

[Non Swing Voter]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342624069687062528

The twitter flag is getting more explicit.  Soon it will just say: "! STFU"

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Powell should absolutely be disbarred, and possibly fined or imprisoned.

Okay, I'll bite...  

Given that merely filing frivolous lawsuits generally isn't on its own recognized as grounds for disbarment for someone with AFAIK no prior sanctions, what other grounds are there for disbarring Powell?  Please be as specific as possible. It's one thing to argue she deserves sanctions, but there are many sanctions besides disbarment.  You're basically talking about starting with what's normally the nuclear option.    

Imprisoned?  Again, tell me what law Powell has broken?  Forget about whether there's enough evidence for a conviction; what specific crimes punishable with incarceration do you think she's committed? Last time I checked, it's not a crime to be a conspiracy theorist nor is it a crime to be a Trump supporter.

I'm genuinely curious what your rationale is for saying Powell should be imprisoned b/c from where I stand, if she were imprisoned for what she's done thus far then she'd be a political prisoner and it'd effectively signal the death of the rule of law in this country.  Frankly, it'd be the sort of thing you'd see in the imaginary left-wing totalitarian dystopia that Trump cultists have convinced themselves noted radical extremist Joe Biden is going to create.

That said, if you're just venting then fair enough  But if you're serious...yikes!

Beginning to think this poster is actually Sydney Powell at this point.

Is tampering with evidence a crime?

Is lying in court filings considered moral turpitude for a lawyer?

I'm not sure if you're a lawyer or not but you seem to be confused between the professional rules of conduct versus criminal liability.  There are people who have committed murder who are active members of the bar.  But things like lying to a court and altering evidence are actually worse in the eyes of most state bars.  Assuming the accusations against her are true, a bar committee looking at the facts could certainly find grounds for disbarment.  

Muhhh law and order.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Powell should absolutely be disbarred, and possibly fined or imprisoned.

Okay, I'll bite...  

Given that merely filing frivolous lawsuits generally isn't on its own recognized as grounds for disbarment for someone with AFAIK no prior sanctions, what other grounds are there for disbarring Powell?  Please be as specific as possible.  It's one thing to argue she deserves sanctions, but there are many sanctions besides disbarment.  You're basically talking about starting with what's normally the nuclear option.    

Imprisoned?  Again, tell me what law Powell has broken?  Forget about whether there's enough evidence for a conviction; what specific crimes punishable with incarceration do you think she's committed?  Last time I checked, it's not a crime to be a conspiracy theorist nor is it a crime to be a Trump supporter.

I'm genuinely curious what your rationale is for saying Powell should be imprisoned b/c from where I stand, if she were imprisoned for what she's done thus far then she'd be a political prisoner and it'd effectively signal the death of the rule of law in this country.  Frankly, it'd be the sort of thing you'd see in the imaginary left-wing totalitarian dystopia that Trump cultists have convinced themselves noted radical extremist Joe Biden is going to create.

That said, if you're just venting then fair enough  But if you're serious...yikes!

IANAL, and I can't speak for anyone else, but,

Giving False Evidence

No matter how minor the fabricated evidence is, presenting or preparing false evidence is an automatic felony. Escaping prison time will be almost near to impossible if you are found guilty. Prison time will range from 16 months to three years. Additionally, the judge has the discretion to consider probation or a fine.

Sidney Powell’s ‘Kraken’ Lawsuit Included Altered Exhibit of Georgia’s Certification of Dominion Voting Machines

When former Trump campaign attorney Sidney Powell filed her much-hyped “Kraken” lawsuit seeking to decertify Georgia’s presidential election results, the conspiracy theory-laden, error-riddled complaint quickly became the object of mockery online. A majority of legal observers criticized the filing for containing a multitude of typos, sloppy formatting, and a dozen references to the late Hugo Chavez, but the lawsuit also included an altered exhibit of significance: a document from Georgia’s Secretary of State Office regarding the certification of Dominion Voting Systems’ voting machines.

The complaint also attached a copy of the supposedly undated certificate, stating, “See attached hereto Exh. 5, copy Certification for Dominion Voting Systems from Secretary of State,” though the certificate was actually filed as “Exhibit 6” on the court’s docket.

If the Dominion certification page included in Powell’s exhibit appears oddly shaped, as though the bottom quarter of the page were chopped off, that’s because it was. Viewing the full document, which still appears on the Secretary’s website, It’s easy to see why that bottom quarter of the document would have been problematic to Powell’s claims, as it reads, in part: “I have hereunto set my hand and affixed the seal of my office, at the Capitol, in the City of Atlanta, this 9th day of August, in the year of our Lord Two Thousand and Nineteen […].”

That's just one example I happened to remember and could easily find evidence for.  Given the insane claims she has made in so many courts, I have little doubt an in-depth review would find she falsified enough evidence to put her away for life.

Powell should absolutely be disbarred, and possibly fined or imprisoned.

Okay, I'll bite...  

Given that merely filing frivolous lawsuits generally isn't on its own recognized as grounds for disbarment for someone with AFAIK no prior sanctions, what other grounds are there for disbarring Powell?  Please be as specific as possible.  It's one thing to argue she deserves sanctions, but there are many sanctions besides disbarment.  You're basically talking about starting with what's normally the nuclear option.    

Imprisoned?  Again, tell me what law Powell has broken?  Forget about whether there's enough evidence for a conviction; what specific crimes punishable with incarceration do you think she's committed?  Last time I checked, it's not a crime to be a conspiracy theorist nor is it a crime to be a Trump supporter.

I'm genuinely curious what your rationale is for saying Powell should be imprisoned b/c from where I stand, if she were imprisoned for what she's done thus far then she'd be a political prisoner and it'd effectively signal the death of the rule of law in this country.  Frankly, it'd be the sort of thing you'd see in the imaginary left-wing totalitarian dystopia that Trump cultists have convinced themselves noted radical extremist Joe Biden is going to create.

That said, if you're just venting then fair enough  But if you're serious...yikes!

The best case would be based on perjury or submitting falsified evidence.

While I'll admit that I'd forgotten about the "changing dates" incident when I made my post (and it's certainly something Powell may well face professional sanctions for), I maintain that there's not - strictly from what I've read - enough here to meet the standard of proof for a criminal conviction.  You'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt (among other things) that this was intentional and not merely A) the result of incompetence or B) done by Powell herself or on her clear instruction as opposed to say, someone who drafted the motion going off the reservation or misinterpreting instructions.    

That said, keep in mind that my post was also in response to someone randomly saying Powell should be thrown in prison without providing any context or rationale (and who still hasn't done so, I should add).    

Now, if we're talking professional sanctions, I've never commented on whether Powell should or shouldn't face them, I'm merely arguing that Powell is unlikely to be disbarred for filing frivolous lawsuits (and I say this as someone who is actually a lawyer).  I'm not defending Powell's conduct; I'm merely making a prediction.  

At the end of the day, folks are generally loath to disbar lawyers absent criminal indictment or even criminal conviction (and even then, Michael Avenatti is currently on involuntary inactive status and hasn't been disbarred yet, although he probably will be eventually).  Absent a conviction or at least a criminal indictment for evidence tampering, Powell probably won't be disbarred over those allegations and even the Democrats know this because no one has made any noise about going after on those grounds.  There's a reason for that and it isn't that they're too wimpy to play hardball or whatever.  

I also don't think there's a perjury case to be made against her with this stuff (Giuliani OTOH...) because you'd have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Powell doesn't really believe the nonsense she's been peddling.  That's why I said being a conspiracy theorist isn't a crime.  Maybe she really believes this stuff and is just zealously representing her client; maybe not.  Good lucky proving she doesn't believe the election was rigged.

Now, to play devil's advocate, if you were to hypothetically argue for serious sanctions against Powell (and L. Lin Wood's), your best bet would probably be to argue that she's not only been filing frivolous lawsuits, but worse yet demonstrated gross incompetence that call into question her fitness to practice law.  I mean, how many basic mistakes have her filings been riddled with?  How can we be sure Powell won't cause clients injury - regardless of her intentions - simply because she doesn't seem to know what she's doing  We've seen spelling and formatting errors, cases filed in the wrong court, people attached as plaintiffs without being asked who turned out to want nothing to do with the cases, etc.  

That's really where her greatest vulnerability is re: professional sanctions imo.  Again though, when I say disbarment is unlikely, I'm not talking about what I want to happen, but what I predict will happen based on the reluctance of the profession to disbar folks unless there's clearly no way around it.

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342872502306009089

more:

If a Democrat Presidential Candidate had an Election Rigged & Stolen, with proof of such acts at a level never seen before, the Democrat Senators would consider it an act of war, and fight to the death. Mitch & the Republicans do NOTHING, just want to let it pass. NO FIGHT!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342817496924086278

The “Justice” Department and the FBI have done nothing about the 2020 Presidential Election Voter Fraud, the biggest SCAM in our nation’s history, despite overwhelming evidence. They should be ashamed. History will remember. Never give up. See everyone in D.C. on January 6th.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342821189077622792

The U.S. Supreme Court has been totally incompetent and weak on the massive Election Fraud that took place in the 2020 Presidential Election. We have absolute PROOF, but they don’t want to see it - No “standing”, they say. If we have corrupt elections, we have no country!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342830505163706369

A young military man working in Afghanistan told me that elections in Afghanistan are far more secure and much better run than the USA’s 2020 Election. Ours, with its millions and millions of corrupt Mail-In Ballots, was the election of a third world country. Fake President!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342832582606598144

retweet:

https://twitter.com/gregkellyusa/status/1342509619634176000

[Hammy]

Just a reminder Trump kicked and screamed that the Emmys were rigged when he didn't win.

[Crumpets]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1342500358296399872

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1342500358296399872

A big brained stable genius!

[GeorgiaModerate]

This is the best one yet:

https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1343002800654053376

[emailking]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342974373632876545
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1342974377218994181

[Bootes Void]

This is the best one yet:

https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1343002800654053376

Are these guys secret plants/operatives or just really stupid?

[BlueSwan]

This is the best one yet:

https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1343002800654053376

Amazing.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

This is the best one yet:

https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1343002800654053376

[randomusername]

This is the best one yet:

https://twitter.com/SamWangPhD/status/1343002800654053376

Are these guys secret plants/operatives or just really stupid?

Even if were to entertain that they are correct (WHICH THEY AREN'T), do they really think broadcasting this out that a "corrupt" Dominion would just sit by idly. Even in their own hypothetical reality they're incompetent.

[DINGO Joe]

While I'll admit that I'd forgotten about the "changing dates" incident when I made my post (and it's certainly something Powell may well face professional sanctions for), I maintain that there's not - strictly from what I've read - enough here to meet the standard of proof for a criminal conviction.  You'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt (among other things) that this was intentional and not merely A) the result of incompetence or B) done by Powell herself or on her clear instruction as opposed to say, someone who drafted the motion going off the reservation or misinterpreting instructions.    

Both Powell and Lin Wood have certainly left a substantial paper trail of total incompetence (Is filing a document with the court with "plenty of perjury" incompetence or an admission of guilt?). 

At some point, they gotta go.  Would you let an electrician who keep burning down houses with his incompetence keep his license?

[Hammy]

While I'll admit that I'd forgotten about the "changing dates" incident when I made my post (and it's certainly something Powell may well face professional sanctions for), I maintain that there's not - strictly from what I've read - enough here to meet the standard of proof for a criminal conviction.  You'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt (among other things) that this was intentional and not merely A) the result of incompetence or B) done by Powell herself or on her clear instruction as opposed to say, someone who drafted the motion going off the reservation or misinterpreting instructions.    

Both Powell and Lin Wood have certainly left a substantial paper trail of total incompetence (Is filing a document with the court with "plenty of perjury" incompetence or an admission of guilt?). 

At some point, they gotta go.  Would you let an electrician who keep burning down houses with his incompetence keep his license?

Problem is you're asking this on a forum of (mostly) rational, logically thinking people, while Trump is as far from that as you get. He would use the fires as evidence of a plot against him that his electrician keeps finding.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

GIULIANI CUCKED

and in hilarious fashion:

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/1341202411541704704?s=19

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

While I'll admit that I'd forgotten about the "changing dates" incident when I made my post (and it's certainly something Powell may well face professional sanctions for), I maintain that there's not - strictly from what I've read - enough here to meet the standard of proof for a criminal conviction.  You'd have to prove beyond reasonable doubt (among other things) that this was intentional and not merely A) the result of incompetence or B) done by Powell herself or on her clear instruction as opposed to say, someone who drafted the motion going off the reservation or misinterpreting instructions.    

Both Powell and Lin Wood have certainly left a substantial paper trail of total incompetence (Is filing a document with the court with "plenty of perjury" incompetence or an admission of guilt?). 

At some point, they gotta go.  Would you let an electrician who keep burning down houses with his incompetence keep his license?

And as I said, incompetence would probably be your best bet if arguing for professional sanctions against Powell and/or Wood.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Rasmussen Reports have been openly Trump hacks for a while, but now they have truly lost their minds.  Read the whole thread:

https://twitter.com/Rasmussen_Poll/status/1343193422996393987

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/rickhasen/status/1343585894377242624

Gohmert going the extra mile to defend his title as America's Dumbest Congressman in the face of stiff competition from the incoming GOP class.

[BudgieForce]

https://twitter.com/rickhasen/status/1343585894377242624
Gohmert going the extra mile to defend his title as America's Dumbest Congressman in the face of stiff competition from the incoming GOP class.

It feels like they're just making stuff up at this point. It would be funny if it wasn't so exhausting.

At the very least, America has over 200 years of electoral history behind it. Gohmert and Ward can't really believe they've discovered some never been used before constitutional loophole to switch electors, right?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

https://twitter.com/rickhasen/status/1343585894377242624
Gohmert going the extra mile to defend his title as America's Dumbest Congressman in the face of stiff competition from the incoming GOP class.

It feels like they're just making stuff up at this point. It would be funny if it wasn't so exhausting.

"At this point"?