MA-1: Morse accused of inappropriate sexual relations with college students

[Lognog]

I'm sorry but the Democratic Party can not be the party talking about sexual assault while supporting people who use their position of power for sex. I don't care about the age difference, what UMass policy is, and I certainly do not care about the sexuality. It is not homophobic to say that people with leverage at institutions like universities and student orgs should not go after the people attending them.

If the relations was consexual, it should be allowed. There is 30K students in UMass.

consent is not the same when you are a student and a professor at college you go to is making advances on you, or you're a college democrat trying to make your way up the ranks and the icon of the organization is making advances on you.

Denying those advances could result in the power that person has over you being used against you. the conflict of interest is clear. It's simply not consent if it's under pressure

A teacher in another department has no pressure on you.

That's simply not true, people at the university have a lot of sway over their departments and research direction

What? You say I'm wrong and then restate exactly what I said.

sorry, I misread what you said. But at the end of the day, if you're running as a young progressive insurgent and college dems at the university you work for ban you from their events, clearly you've made so many people uncomfortable that you've done something wrong.

[MT Treasurer]

This isn’t so much about Morse (I’m not familiar enough with the details in this case anyway) but about this type of incident in general: Certain decisions and patterns of behavior can reflect very poorly on your judgement, character, and integrity even when we assume that the encounters/relationships in question are "consensual." Reducing the entire dynamic to mutual consent or age of consent is a misleading oversimplification, even if I don’t think the man should have his life ruined because of this and it almost certainly didn’t constitute "sexual assault" in this particular case.

Besides, the means by which said "consent" can be and often is achieved (psychological and emotional manipulation, leveraging one's power and position, intimidation, etc.) and the possible implications of this and similar cases (potential bias of the professor which results in the privileging of certain students to the disadvantage of the rest, further abuse of power, loss of trust in/reputation of the educational system/institution/department, etc.) can be just as problematic. Even if it turns out to be a nonstory, cases like this should be treated seriously — it’s not as simple as "staying out of consenting adults' bedrooms."

[MaxQue]

I'm sorry but the Democratic Party can not be the party talking about sexual assault while supporting people who use their position of power for sex. I don't care about the age difference, what UMass policy is, and I certainly do not care about the sexuality. It is not homophobic to say that people with leverage at institutions like universities and student orgs should not go after the people attending them.

If the relations was consexual, it should be allowed. There is 30K students in UMass.

consent is not the same when you are a student and a professor at college you go to is making advances on you, or you're a college democrat trying to make your way up the ranks and the icon of the organization is making advances on you.

Denying those advances could result in the power that person has over you being used against you. the conflict of interest is clear. It's simply not consent if it's under pressure

A teacher in another department has no pressure on you.

That's simply not true, people at the university have a lot of sway over their departments and research direction

What? You say I'm wrong and then restate exactly what I said.

sorry, I misread what you said. But at the end of the day, if you're running as a young progressive insurgent and college dems at the university you work for ban you from their events, clearly you've made so many people uncomfortable that you've done something wrong.

Or you made one influent puritan unhappy or someone is hoping to get a job with Neal as a reward for the hatchet job...

[NYSforKennedy2024]

There seems to be confusion here that needs to be explained.

Sex = Good.

Teaching = Good.

Having sex with students (on your class roster) = Bad.

Having sex with your students who are members of your campus political club and then seeking their political support - Really, really bad.

This is considered ethically unacceptable, for good reason.

As a bisexual male college student who formerly supported Morse, this is 100% disqualifying.

If you find this to be puritanical instead of basic social ethics, you may be prone to predatory sexual behavior.

[Xing]

As a teacher, I can say that a teacher having relations with a student at their school, even if the student isn’t in their class, is absolutely unacceptable, and it seems like UMass is pretty clear about this. While consensual sex with a student not in a teacher’s class is may not be quite as serious as sex with a student in their class (or non-consensual sex, of course), it still shows very poor judgment, and doesn’t create a particularly safe environment for other students. Many students wouldn’t feel safe in the class of a professor who has slept with students. While I dislike the implication that most or even half of progressives do this sort of thing, I’ll say that progressives can do far better than Morse, and I would (unenthusiastically) vote for Neal if I lived in MA-01.

I tend to be pretty stubborn and driven by ideology, but I have my limits, and as a teacher, this sort of thing is a big deal to me.

[Morning in Atlas]

There seems to be confusion here that needs to be explained.

Sex = Good.

Teaching = Good.

Having sex with students (on your class roster) = Bad.

Having sex with your students who are members of your campus political club and then seeking their political support - Really, really bad.

This is considered ethically unacceptable, for good reason.

As a bisexual male college student who formerly supported Morse, this is 100% disqualifying.

I agree. Good thing that the College Democrats haven't said that #3 or #4 happened.

”In a manner widely understood by our generation to indicate intimacy” means nothing, and with context, disproves that allegation. Most of this is based off of actions on Instagram. DMing someone, following them back, or even adding them to their Close Friends all have deniability. For all we know, his Close Friends might be political, and the former two could be fine. You know, reaching out or DMing people is what you do when you're running a campaign for Congress. The point of "trolling College Democrats events for sex" seems like less of a scheme and more of willful misinterpretation, similar to Lucy Flores's accusations against Biden.

As for #3, if he had sex with students in his department, then it starts to get morally murky. Considering his age and the area he lives in, it'd be nearly impossible not to sleep with a college student. You'd have to be even more selective than the 5% Adam mentioned, considering Amherst, Holyoke, and (to a lesser extent) Springfield are all college towns. This is the only legitimately moralistic debate of the bunch, and considering the context of the sitaution, I can give him some leeway.

I'd have to see the original letter the CDs sent to Morse, proof of sexual intent, or him pressuring students into continuing a relationship. If it's there, then I'll disavow the guy. It'd be scummy - plain and simple. But the evidence that we can currently see points to Morse's innocence.

I'd highly recommend getting your facts straight before throwing around life-ruining accusations against people on here. Those types of things trivialize the harm that sexual predators cause, and hurt accusers who have faced greater trauma. It's one thing to call someone a racist or a sexist. It's another thing to baselessly claim someone wants to dox you. It's a completely different ballpark to accuse anyone on here of what you just did.

[Lognog]

I'm sorry but the Democratic Party can not be the party talking about sexual assault while supporting people who use their position of power for sex. I don't care about the age difference, what UMass policy is, and I certainly do not care about the sexuality. It is not homophobic to say that people with leverage at institutions like universities and student orgs should not go after the people attending them.

If the relations was consexual, it should be allowed. There is 30K students in UMass.

consent is not the same when you are a student and a professor at college you go to is making advances on you, or you're a college democrat trying to make your way up the ranks and the icon of the organization is making advances on you.

Denying those advances could result in the power that person has over you being used against you. the conflict of interest is clear. It's simply not consent if it's under pressure

A teacher in another department has no pressure on you.

That's simply not true, people at the university have a lot of sway over their departments and research direction

What? You say I'm wrong and then restate exactly what I said.

sorry, I misread what you said. But at the end of the day, if you're running as a young progressive insurgent and college dems at the university you work for ban you from their events, clearly you've made so many people uncomfortable that you've done something wrong.

Or you made one influent puritan unhappy or someone is hoping to get a job with Neal as a reward for the hatchet job...

I don't think this the time for baseless conspiracy theories

[Figueira]

I'm sorry but the Democratic Party can not be the party talking about sexual assault while supporting people who use their position of power for sex. I don't care about the age difference, what UMass policy is, and I certainly do not care about the sexuality. It is not homophobic to say that people with leverage at institutions like universities and student orgs should not go after the people attending them.

If the relations was consexual, it should be allowed. There is 30K students in UMass.

consent is not the same when you are a student and a professor at college you go to is making advances on you, or you're a college democrat trying to make your way up the ranks and the icon of the organization is making advances on you.

Denying those advances could result in the power that person has over you being used against you. the conflict of interest is clear. It's simply not consent if it's under pressure

A teacher in another department has no pressure on you.

That's simply not true, people at the university have a lot of sway over their departments and research direction

He was an adjunct professor who taught one class as a side gig while being mayor. If anything, he had more influence from being a popular local politician.

That said, having sex with students at the same university you teach at is kind of icky (even though it's allowed) so I'll probably end up voting against him. Too bad, because Neal has been running a dishonest campaign and I wanted to punish him for it.

[warandwar]

IME, this is all very common for young hotshot politicians. For better or for worse (i believe for worse). But it's an open secret that certain sitting US Senators, etc engage in this (and worse).

[NYSforKennedy2024]

There seems to be confusion here that needs to be explained.

Sex = Good.

Teaching = Good.

Having sex with students (on your class roster) = Bad.

Having sex with your students who are members of your campus political club and then seeking their political support - Really, really bad.

This is considered ethically unacceptable, for good reason.

As a bisexual male college student who formerly supported Morse, this is 100% disqualifying.

I agree. Good thing that the College Democrats haven't said that #3 or #4 happened.

”In a manner widely understood by our generation to indicate intimacy” means nothing, and with context, disproves that allegation. Most of this is based off of actions on Instagram. DMing someone, following them back, or even adding them to their Close Friends all have deniability. For all we know, his Close Friends might be political, and the former two could be fine. You know, reaching out or DMing people is what you do when you're running a campaign for Congress. The point of "trolling College Democrats events for sex" seems like less of a scheme and more of willful misinterpretation, similar to Lucy Flores's accusations against Biden.

As for #3, if he had sex with students in his department, then it starts to get morally murky. Considering his age and the area he lives in, it'd be nearly impossible not to sleep with a college student. You'd have to be even more selective than the 5% Adam mentioned, considering Amherst, Holyoke, and (to a lesser extent) Springfield are all college towns. This is the only legitimately moralistic debate of the bunch, and considering the context of the sitaution, I can give him some leeway.

I'd have to see the original letter the CDs sent to Morse, proof of sexual intent, or him pressuring students into continuing a relationship. If it's there, then I'll disavow the guy. It'd be scummy - plain and simple. But the evidence that we can currently see points to Morse's innocence.

I'd highly recommend getting your facts straight before throwing around life-ruining accusations against people on here. Those types of things trivialize the harm that sexual predators cause, and hurt accusers who have faced greater trauma. It's one thing to call someone a racist or a sexist. It's another thing to baselessly claim someone wants to dox you. It's a completely different ballpark to accuse anyone on here of what you just did.

It's the correct ballpark, given the evidence we have.

[Greedo punched first]

IME, this is all very common for young hotshot politicians. For better or for worse (i believe for worse). But it's an open secret that certain sitting US Senators, etc engage in this (and worse).

Bob Menendez? Ken Calvert?

[Morning in Atlas]

There seems to be confusion here that needs to be explained.

Sex = Good.

Teaching = Good.

Having sex with students (on your class roster) = Bad.

Having sex with your students who are members of your campus political club and then seeking their political support - Really, really bad.

This is considered ethically unacceptable, for good reason.

As a bisexual male college student who formerly supported Morse, this is 100% disqualifying.

I agree. Good thing that the College Democrats haven't said that #3 or #4 happened.

”In a manner widely understood by our generation to indicate intimacy” means nothing, and with context, disproves that allegation. Most of this is based off of actions on Instagram. DMing someone, following them back, or even adding them to their Close Friends all have deniability. For all we know, his Close Friends might be political, and the former two could be fine. You know, reaching out or DMing people is what you do when you're running a campaign for Congress. The point of "trolling College Democrats events for sex" seems like less of a scheme and more of willful misinterpretation, similar to Lucy Flores's accusations against Biden.

As for #3, if he had sex with students in his department, then it starts to get morally murky. Considering his age and the area he lives in, it'd be nearly impossible not to sleep with a college student. You'd have to be even more selective than the 5% Adam mentioned, considering Amherst, Holyoke, and (to a lesser extent) Springfield are all college towns. This is the only legitimately moralistic debate of the bunch, and considering the context of the sitaution, I can give him some leeway.

I'd have to see the original letter the CDs sent to Morse, proof of sexual intent, or him pressuring students into continuing a relationship. If it's there, then I'll disavow the guy. It'd be scummy - plain and simple. But the evidence that we can currently see points to Morse's innocence.

I'd highly recommend getting your facts straight before throwing around life-ruining accusations against people on here. Those types of things trivialize the harm that sexual predators cause, and hurt accusers who have faced greater trauma. It's one thing to call someone a racist or a sexist. It's another thing to baselessly claim someone wants to dox you. It's a completely different ballpark to accuse anyone on here of what you just did.

It's the correct ballpark, given the evidence we have.

Then you don't even understand the allegations being made. You clearly haven't read the article or the actual allegations that the CDs have made if you think he was having sex with his students or using CD events as a vehicle to hit on gay students.

I'd shut the **** up and make sure I know what I'm talking about before talking tough like that, but that's just me.

[Left Wing]

Zoomers really are the f[inks]king worst. You'd think anybody - regardless of age or taste - would learn to stop entertaining the idea of physical or emotional intimacy with them. That's Morse's biggest misstep here out of the explicitly-articulated reporting I've seen thus far.

"I've spent my whole life online and socially awkward from a lack of human interaction - I HAVE THE RIGHT to not ever feel uncomfortable in ANY social situation!". In retrospect, this is perfectly reflected in why the pre-2010 teenage Atlas community transformed from c[inks]k-destroyers into the post-2010 Atlas community of priests, virgins and incels.

ok boomer

[Left Wing]

No educator should ever make a student feel uncomfortable. I don’t understand why anyone would disagree with that

[warandwar]

IME, this is all very common for young hotshot politicians. For better or for worse (i believe for worse). But it's an open secret that certain sitting US Senators, etc engage in this (and worse).

Bob Menendez? Ken Calvert?

The list goes on....The ones I'm thinking of, there's been no reporting on.

[Lourdes]

https://twitter.com/AlexBMorse/status/1292634553669091329

[Morning in Atlas]

https://twitter.com/VictoryFund/status/1292873563624570883

“Alex has been running for Congress for more than a year and this letter was released one week before the first debate and three weeks before the primary. It is clear it was timed with the political calendar and without enough time for an independent investigation to be completed. That is a disservice to voters who want a progressive member of Congress but now only have time to make a decision based on vague and anonymous accusations.

“Alex is taking responsibility for actions that made students uncomfortable and we support the independent investigation by UMass, despite no complaints having ever been made to the university. But it is critical the media and others avoid reinforcing tired homophobic tropes or sensationalizing this story because of Alex’s sexual orientation. Alex has been open about the fact that he has had consensual relationships with other men, including students enrolled at local universities that he has met using dating apps, and there are no allegations of non-consent or of anyone underage. The media and voters should review the allegations and determine whether a straight candidate would be held to the same scrutiny and standards.”

tl;dr: The LGBTQ Victory Fund is standing by Morse and explicitly accuse the MACDs of making the accusations for political reasons. They also implicitly criticize people using homophobic tropes.

[Horus]

I can't support him anymore. Still, nothing crosses the line into predatory. All this shows is that he's exceptionally dumb.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/VictoryFund/status/1292873563624570883

“Alex has been running for Congress for more than a year and this letter was released one week before the first debate and three weeks before the primary. It is clear it was timed with the political calendar and without enough time for an independent investigation to be completed. That is a disservice to voters who want a progressive member of Congress but now only have time to make a decision based on vague and anonymous accusations.

“Alex is taking responsibility for actions that made students uncomfortable and we support the independent investigation by UMass, despite no complaints having ever been made to the university. But it is critical the media and others avoid reinforcing tired homophobic tropes or sensationalizing this story because of Alex’s sexual orientation. Alex has been open about the fact that he has had consensual relationships with other men, including students enrolled at local universities that he has met using dating apps, and there are no allegations of non-consent or of anyone underage. The media and voters should review the allegations and determine whether a straight candidate would be held to the same scrutiny and standards.”

tl;dr: The LGBTQ Victory Fund is standing by Morse and explicitly accuse the MACDs of making the accusations for political reasons. They also implicitly criticize people using homophobic tropes.

In that case, shame on them!

[Lognog]

https://twitter.com/VictoryFund/status/1292873563624570883

“Alex has been running for Congress for more than a year and this letter was released one week before the first debate and three weeks before the primary. It is clear it was timed with the political calendar and without enough time for an independent investigation to be completed. That is a disservice to voters who want a progressive member of Congress but now only have time to make a decision based on vague and anonymous accusations.

“Alex is taking responsibility for actions that made students uncomfortable and we support the independent investigation by UMass, despite no complaints having ever been made to the university. But it is critical the media and others avoid reinforcing tired homophobic tropes or sensationalizing this story because of Alex’s sexual orientation. Alex has been open about the fact that he has had consensual relationships with other men, including students enrolled at local universities that he has met using dating apps, and there are no allegations of non-consent or of anyone underage. The media and voters should review the allegations and determine whether a straight candidate would be held to the same scrutiny and standards.”

tl;dr: The LGBTQ Victory Fund is standing by Morse and explicitly accuse the MACDs of making the accusations for political reasons. They also implicitly criticize people using homophobic tropes.

In that case, shame on them!

Roy Moore complained that the attacks were politically timed

[Wells]

30 year old mayor: I consent
22 year old college student: I consent
Weird online leftists: I don't!

Isn't there somebody you forgot to ask?

[OneJ]

https://mobile.twitter.com/danielmarans/status/1292931125157994503

[Morning in Atlas]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why the MACDs released their statement when they did.

[Oryxslayer]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why the MACDs released their statement when they did.

College democratic groups likely supported Morse...remember that the Youth are not some bastion of incumbent support. When I was at my universities YD group there was a Bernie supermajority.

[MaxQue]

Ladies and gentlemen, this is why the MACDs released their statement when they did.

College democratic groups likely supported Morse...remember that the Youth are not some bastion of incumbent support. When I was at my universities YD group there was a Bernie supermajority.

Leadership of such organisations is not always aligned as the base.