Thomas Jefferson or Maximilien de Robespierre?

[HisGrace]

probably Jefferson tbh; if we're talking slavery he did far more damage to its viability as an institution than Robespierre (given the Girondins had abolished it before him e.g. Sonthanax in Haiti, not to mention the efforts of the rebellious slaves themselves; and after he fell from power slavery would be reinstated and not be banned till the Second Republic.

That's something a lot of people don't consider about Jefferson. Despite being a hypocrite and personally owning slaves his ideas directly lead to the abolition of slavery. So his impact goes far beyond just his own personal life in that area and is net positive. Same type deal with Gandhi.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

probably Jefferson tbh; if we're talking slavery he did far more damage to its viability as an institution than Robespierre (given the Girondins had abolished it before him e.g. Sonthanax in Haiti, not to mention the efforts of the rebellious slaves themselves; and after he fell from power slavery would be reinstated and not be banned till the Second Republic.

That's something a lot of people don't consider about Jefferson. Despite being a hypocrite and personally owning slaves his ideas directly lead to the abolition of slavery. So his impact goes far beyond just his own personal life in that area and is net positive. Same type deal with Gandhi.

not even in the sense of his ideas: he is a big part of why the NW Territory were kept slave-free, and Virginia under his leadership was one of the first worldwide jurisdictions to ban the slave trade.

[Antonio the Sixth]

probably Jefferson tbh; if we're talking slavery he did far more damage to its viability as an institution than Robespierre (given the Girondins had abolished it before him e.g. Sonthanax in Haiti, not to mention the efforts of the rebellious slaves themselves; and after he fell from power slavery would be reinstated and not be banned till the Second Republic.

That's something a lot of people don't consider about Jefferson. Despite being a hypocrite and personally owning slaves his ideas directly lead to the abolition of slavery. So his impact goes far beyond just his own personal life in that area and is net positive. Same type deal with Gandhi.

not even in the sense of his ideas: he is a big part of why the NW Territory were kept slave-free, and Virginia under his leadership was one of the first worldwide jurisdictions to ban the slave trade.

Oh, I actually didn't know that. That does make me take his professed abhorrence for slavery a bit more seriously (though a slaveowner is a slaveowner is a slaveowner still).

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

probably Jefferson tbh; if we're talking slavery he did far more damage to its viability as an institution than Robespierre (given the Girondins had abolished it before him e.g. Sonthanax in Haiti, not to mention the efforts of the rebellious slaves themselves; and after he fell from power slavery would be reinstated and not be banned till the Second Republic.

That's something a lot of people don't consider about Jefferson. Despite being a hypocrite and personally owning slaves his ideas directly lead to the abolition of slavery. So his impact goes far beyond just his own personal life in that area and is net positive. Same type deal with Gandhi.

not even in the sense of his ideas: he is a big part of why the NW Territory were kept slave-free, and Virginia under his leadership was one of the first worldwide jurisdictions to ban the slave trade.

The bill Jefferson proposed in Congress in 1783 would have banned slavery in all federal territory (including the future states of Mississippi and Alabama); that proposal was defeated by a single vote. He maintained until his dying day that James Monroe's absence cost his bill the vote of Virginia, though it's not clear if Monroe planned to vote in favor of the legislation. Two years prior, Jefferson had submitted a draft constitution for Virginia that would have gradually eliminated slavery by 1800, building on his successful bid to abolish the Atlantic slave trade in 1779.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also, I just noticed that this thread deadnames Robespierre by keeping the particle. Sad!

[HisGrace]

probably Jefferson tbh; if we're talking slavery he did far more damage to its viability as an institution than Robespierre (given the Girondins had abolished it before him e.g. Sonthanax in Haiti, not to mention the efforts of the rebellious slaves themselves; and after he fell from power slavery would be reinstated and not be banned till the Second Republic.

That's something a lot of people don't consider about Jefferson. Despite being a hypocrite and personally owning slaves his ideas directly lead to the abolition of slavery. So his impact goes far beyond just his own personal life in that area and is net positive. Same type deal with Gandhi.

not even in the sense of his ideas: he is a big part of why the NW Territory were kept slave-free, and Virginia under his leadership was one of the first worldwide jurisdictions to ban the slave trade.

He also outright banned the import of slaves into the US as President. Probably the most significant blow against slavery prior to it being outright banned and an accomplishment that would single handledly be enough to make him a top five president, whatever else he did.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The way WC whites treated African Americans and the way they treated us during Jim Crow flies in the face of any good will Dixiecrats have done until FDR.

Kuta Kinte foot was chopped off when he was trying to escape, they put slaves in boats that the slaves literally rather drowned than going into slavery. I saw Roots and Shaka Zula and both were doing the slave trade.

Jefferson-Davis wasn't named Jefferson for nothing. States rights rather dealing with slavery or Southern strategy Reagan imposed, is conservative.

Also, they branded slaves like horses as well, and whipped them

[Alben Barkley]

Jefferson Easily(Sane)

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Jefferson isn't Revolutionary, otherwise, the Ds whom lost the South after 1964 Civil Rights Act would not have lost so many Elections during the Reagan Revolution emplored the Southern Strategy. Gore  said Ds are the Party of Jefferson, but they arent, they are the party of FDR

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

the best comparison for how people like Jefferson viewed slavery is how we in the west would view sweatshops today: "ah how terrible, what injustice, someone should do something about this ... after I buy this cheap laptop". (and he wasn't even the worst - as I said he at least tried to use his power to do something about it; a lot of politicians sat on their backsides and did the equivalent of citing "trickle down" incrementalism).

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

We have had this argument many times, on this forum, Jefferson was a 19th Century Dixiecrat, whom was WC rural white male. Lincoln used Bill of Rights and Jefferson's own writing to issue emancipation Proclamation.  If Jefferson was a revolutionary,  AA would have the same class as whites, which they dont, due to reparations, which Lincoln promised.

That's why 4 Civil Rights leaders were killed by KGB and Russia on the war on poverty, due to reparations: 2 Kennedys, MLK and Malcolm X

[F. Joe Haydn]

the best comparison for how people like Jefferson viewed slavery is how we in the west would view sweatshops today: "ah how terrible, what injustice, someone should do something about this ... after I buy this cheap laptop". (and he wasn't even the worst - as I said he at least tried to use his power to do something about it; a lot of politicians sat on their backsides and did the equivalent of citing "trickle down" incrementalism).

A more accurate comparison might be to imagine modern Jefferson as owning sweatshops and profiting off them, while at the same time claiming to deplore them.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

the best comparison for how people like Jefferson viewed slavery is how we in the west would view sweatshops today: "ah how terrible, what injustice, someone should do something about this ... after I buy this cheap laptop". (and he wasn't even the worst - as I said he at least tried to use his power to do something about it; a lot of politicians sat on their backsides and did the equivalent of citing "trickle down" incrementalism).

A more accurate comparison might be to imagine modern Jefferson as owning sweatshops and profiting off them, while at the same time claiming to deplore them.

"A lot of good men died in that sweatshop!"