Senate Resolution on Military Forces in Europe

[Ebowed]

Senate Resolution on Military Forces in Europe

1. The Senate recognizes the long lived threat of conventional war in Europe has ended.

2. The Senate also recognizes the usefulness of European bases for deployment to other overseas theaters.

3. Therefore, the Senate urges the President to order our conventional forces in Germany, the United Kingdom, and the Low Countries to return home to continental United States bases.

4. The Senate also resolves to work as a committee to study the future of military bases in Europe and to work towards the best deployment of forces to maintain our strategic deployment capabilities.
Sen. Jake

[MasterJedi]

Ah crap, forgot to add this after Joe signed the bill. -_-

Anyway I'm pretty sure I'll support this.

[minionofmidas]

Trouble brewing in Rheinland-Pfalz, I see...

[Jake]

I'll be amending this to define what conventional forces are later today.

[DanielX]

I do not support elimination of ALL forces in those areas. However, reassigning a large percentage of the troops in Europe to the US or to more active areas is a good idea.

[Colin]

I do not support elimination of ALL forces in those areas. However, reassigning a large percentage of the troops in Europe to the US or to more active areas is a good idea.

I believe that is what Jake is implying when he says that he will write up what exactly convensional forces are.

[MasterJedi]

Do you have that amendment yet Jake?

[Jake]

Do you have that amendment yet Jake?

Yes, sorry. I just got AoE III

Ahem:

Strike Section 3 and add the following:

Therefore, the Senate urges the President, in consultation with our NATO allies and the Secretary of Defense, to order the following units to redeploy to Continental United States bases:

a) First Infantry Division, and subsidiary units
b) First Armored Division, and subsidiary units
c) Third Air Force, and subsidiary units
d) V Corps HQ

and add a Section 4 between 3 and 4.

The Senate also urges the President, in consultation with the Pentagon, to provide for the maintenence of key bases and military equiptment in Europe.

[Colin]

Do you have that amendment yet Jake?

Yes, sorry. I just got AoE III

Ahem:

Strike Section 3 and add the following:

Therefore, the Senate urges the President, in consultation with our NATO allies and the Secretary of Defense, to order the following units to redeploy to Continental United States bases:

a) First Infantry Division, and subsidiary units
b) First Armored Division, and subsidiary units
c) Third Air Force, and subsidiary units
d) V Corps HQ

and add a Section 4 between 3 and 4.

The Senate also urges the President, in consultation with the Pentagon, to provide for the maintenence of key bases and military equiptment in Europe.

I support this amendment fully.

[12th Doctor]

BTW... since I think this is an important issue, I will restate the opinion I voiced in the elections folder:

Withdrawl of Conventional Forces in Europe

I am opposed to this bill for three reasons.

First, I think it is based on a kind of isolationist mentality that I have always been rather weary of.

Second, there are many regions around these based that are economically dependent upon the money that the troops bring in.  full removal could be damaging to thier economies and, thus, damaging to our foriegn relations with those countries.

Third, I am not entirely convinced that the threat as ended in that part of the world.  Islamic extremists could cause serious problems in European countries (as seen in France) or it might even be possible that a conflict could break out in the Balkins in the near future, or that the Russians might, once again, try to apply presure on our allies the Ukrainians.

I believe that a partial pullout could be reasonable, but I am against a full withdrawl.

I am particularly concerned about the third part of that.

[minionofmidas]

Jake (or anybody else), could you give a breakdown of how many troops you're withdrawing, where they're stationed, and how many troops would remain in Europe?

And I can assure Mr Soulty that the overpublicised little riots in France cannot be construed as proof that "Islamic extemists could cause serious troubles in Europe", and that nobody in France would have any sort of friendly feelings for Atlasia left if Atlasia intervened there.

[Colin]

Jake (or anybody else), could you give a breakdown of how many troops you're withdrawing, where they're stationed, and how many troops would remain in Europe?

And I can assure Mr Soulty that the overpublicised little riots in France cannot be construed as proof that "Islamic extemists could cause serious troubles in Europe", and that nobody in France would have any sort of friendly feelings for Atlasia left if Atlasia intervened there.

Well I can't give you exact amounts that would be withdrawn but back in the Department of Defence thread I gave an exact count of all American troops in Europe as of 2004. So from those you could probably extrapolate the appropriate numbers though I'm sure Jake knows the actual amounts.

[12th Doctor]

Jake (or anybody else), could you give a breakdown of how many troops you're withdrawing, where they're stationed, and how many troops would remain in Europe?

And I can assure Mr Soulty that the overpublicised little riots in France cannot be construed as proof that "Islamic extemists could cause serious troubles in Europe", and that nobody in France would have any sort of friendly feelings for Atlasia left if Atlasia intervened there.

Sure, the riots in France might be a "small" (I woud hardly call them that) enough for French authorities to handle, but you cannot deny that extremism has taken hold in Europe.  What if, say, mass riots occured all over Europe?  I would not seek to act without the concent of European authorities in such a matter.  I think, however, that if it were to come to it, the United States has a vested interest in protecting, not only our allies, but the treasures and relics that represent our common heritage as Europeans.

If Mr. Trondheim does not believe that there is serious danger of an Islamic flare-up in Europe, then he is refuting the work of almost every sociologist and political scientist who has done work in this area.

Not only that, but he still did not address my point about Russia's resent attempt to reassert their iron grip over Ukraine, which I think is cause for alarm for anyone who calls themselves an ally of freedom and liberty.

[Jake]

Soulty - This is a partial withdrawal of two heavy divisions, their corps headquarters, and one of the two combat air forces in Europe. There remains significant forces deployed elsewhere in the region, Marine and Army, as well as another Air Force in Italy.

Lewis - I have numbers for the V Corps, which includes the two heavy divisions and a multitude of combat support units totaling c. 42,000 troops and a further 57,000 dependants and is based throughout the Rhine/Main area of Germany. The Third Air Force has c. 25,000 troops and a further 35,000 dependants and is deployed at air bases throughout the UK and Germany, primarily at RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and at Spangdehlem AB.

So we're looking at c. 67,000 troops and 92,000 dependants; though not all of these will be redeployed and some will remain to maintain the bases and equiptment for any possible deployment.

[Ebowed]

Strike Section 3 and add the following:

Therefore, the Senate urges the President, in consultation with our NATO allies and the Secretary of Defense, to order the following units to redeploy to Continental United States bases:

a) First Infantry Division, and subsidiary units
b) First Armored Division, and subsidiary units
c) Third Air Force, and subsidiary units
d) V Corps HQ

and add a Section 4 between 3 and 4.

The Senate also urges the President, in consultation with the Pentagon, to provide for the maintenence of key bases and military equiptment in Europe.

The vote is on the above amendment.  Senators may vote Yea, Nay, or Abstain.

[MasterJedi]

Aye

[Jake]

Aye

[Gabu]

Aye.

[True Democrat]

This bill has the State Department's full approval.

[Colin]

Aye

[Jake]

Following this vote, I'd like to amend the resolution again after noticing a misworded clause.

Replace the present clause d) with:

d) V Corps HQ, and subsidiary units

[minionofmidas]

Lewis - I have numbers for the V Corps, which includes the two heavy divisions and a multitude of combat support units totaling c. 42,000 troops and a further 57,000 dependants and is based throughout the Rhine/Main area of Germany.

I didn't think there are that many US soldiers left in the Rhein/Main area left right now, so I suppose you're using the term Rhine/Main a little more loosely than a German would, and this would affect the Idar-Oberstein, Birkenfeld, Bad Kreuznach etc area of Rheinland-Pfalz, where (at least according to conventional wisdom in Germany) the largest concentrations of US soldiers now are?

If that is the case I cannot support this bill unless some sort of provision is added to help the struggling economy of that area, which is structurally weak and pretty heavily dependent on the wages spent, construction jobs provided etc by the US Army, with the transition to a normal economic structure, for the short-to-medium term.

[minionofmidas]

Sure, the riots in France might be a "small" (I woud hardly call them that)

One person killed. How many people were killed in the LA riots again?

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You miss the point that, while most of the participants in these riots (not what you'd call a supermajority though) were Muslims, Islamic extremism had *nothing whatsoever* to do with them. 

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Certainly nowhere near 10% the risk of an anti-Islamic racist flare up.

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LOL! "almost every"... I will want you to prove that claim or withdraw it. And mind you, the bulk of the available work was written in Europe, and not necessarily in English.

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Russia stopped supplying gas* after a ten-year treaty ran out under which Ukraine's economy was grotesquely subsidized by Russia, and Ukrainians did not wish to negotiate a new treaty. The matter has now been resolved, in a way that still leaves Ukraine's economy subsidized by Russia, though not as much as before.
*except they didn't, not fully.

[Jake]

I didn't think there are that many US soldiers left in the Rhein/Main area left right now, so I suppose you're using the term Rhine/Main a little more loosely than a German would, and this would affect the Idar-Oberstein, Birkenfeld, Bad Kreuznach etc area of Rheinland-Pfalz, where (at least according to conventional wisdom in Germany) the largest concentrations of US soldiers now are?

Indeed

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This is the purpose of Section III. I would hope the President would consult with German leaders, among others, before committing to specifics of this plan.

[MasterJedi]

One more Aye vote to pass Jake's amendment.