2020 New York Redistricting

[ProgressiveModerate]

Here would be my genuine review of Torie's map:

What I like:

The creation of an Orthodox and 34% Asian seat in South Brooklyn.

The new Manhattan-based 10th

Relatively low number of county splits, especially upstate

Upstate NY is very compact


What I dislike:

NY-03 crossing the Sound

NYC itself is pretty messy

The elimination of a majority Hispanic seat

NY-11 stretching around South Brooklyn like that

NY-18 is quite long


I have some other smaller things I could say about the map but I don't have time to go through all the ins and outs right now.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

Dunn is absolutely Torie. He gives the same arguments as he has in this thread. Torie is also known to live in Hoboken, NJ and as Nyvin says uses chops instead of splits.

I believe Torie used to be a moderate Republican from New York City, so it’s not surprising that he has a soft spot of the NY GOP and is willing to draw them a favorable map.

His map isn’t an R gerrymander by any means. I think it’s hard to detach one’s idea of fairness from the existing map, which does carve up a potential compact South Brooklyn district. Any map that draws the Black areas of Brooklyn into White hipster yuppie Brooklyn instead of White ethnic, Jewish, and Chinese Brooklyn will arrive with a SI swing seat and a Safe R (by 2020 pres) south Brooklyn. Either is reasonable. The latter achieves proportionality if that’s the target though.

Also can confirm he is by looking at Torie's profile (don't mean to be creepy).

Also his map isn't really an R gerrymander; none of the maps submitted thus far are full on gerrymanders other than arguably Dem map. His map is justifiable by all means, as are pretty much all the submitted maps. There is more than one "justifiable configuration", his just happens to be one that creates more R seats.

I mean his map uses a normal elsewhere whole county configuration for Long Island. Almost certain Republicans would not want that.

On net its neutral. It makes 4 more winnable at the cost of NY-02.

[lfromnj]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

Dunn is absolutely Torie. He gives the same arguments as he has in this thread. Torie is also known to live in Hoboken, NJ and as Nyvin says uses chops instead of splits.

I believe Torie used to be a moderate Republican from New York City, so it’s not surprising that he has a soft spot of the NY GOP and is willing to draw them a favorable map.

His map isn’t an R gerrymander by any means. I think it’s hard to detach one’s idea of fairness from the existing map, which does carve up a potential compact South Brooklyn district. Any map that draws the Black areas of Brooklyn into White hipster yuppie Brooklyn instead of White ethnic, Jewish, and Chinese Brooklyn will arrive with a SI swing seat and a Safe R (by 2020 pres) south Brooklyn. Either is reasonable. The latter achieves proportionality if that’s the target though.

Also can confirm he is by looking at Torie's profile (don't mean to be creepy).

Also his map isn't really an R gerrymander; none of the maps submitted thus far are full on gerrymanders other than arguably Dem map. His map is justifiable by all means, as are pretty much all the submitted maps. There is more than one "justifiable configuration", his just happens to be one that creates more R seats.

I mean his map uses a normal elsewhere whole county configuration for Long Island. Almost certain Republicans would not want that.

On net its neutral. It makes 4 more winnable at the cost of NY-02.

 I mean its still Biden +10, No Republican would like that configuration of LI from a partisan standpoint.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

Dunn is absolutely Torie. He gives the same arguments as he has in this thread. Torie is also known to live in Hoboken, NJ and as Nyvin says uses chops instead of splits.

I believe Torie used to be a moderate Republican from New York City, so it’s not surprising that he has a soft spot of the NY GOP and is willing to draw them a favorable map.

His map isn’t an R gerrymander by any means. I think it’s hard to detach one’s idea of fairness from the existing map, which does carve up a potential compact South Brooklyn district. Any map that draws the Black areas of Brooklyn into White hipster yuppie Brooklyn instead of White ethnic, Jewish, and Chinese Brooklyn will arrive with a SI swing seat and a Safe R (by 2020 pres) south Brooklyn. Either is reasonable. The latter achieves proportionality if that’s the target though.

Also can confirm he is by looking at Torie's profile (don't mean to be creepy).

Also his map isn't really an R gerrymander; none of the maps submitted thus far are full on gerrymanders other than arguably Dem map. His map is justifiable by all means, as are pretty much all the submitted maps. There is more than one "justifiable configuration", his just happens to be one that creates more R seats.

I mean his map uses a normal elsewhere whole county configuration for Long Island. Almost certain Republicans would not want that.

On net its neutral. It makes 4 more winnable at the cost of NY-02.

 I mean its still Biden +10, No Republican would like that configuration of LI from a partisan standpoint.

In his config it's only Biden + 5; same goes for CD-2. Gives Rs a shot at winning 3 long Island Districts while also having a very good chance of them being reduced to just 1.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I see Torie got back to his roots with a Republican gerrymander

[Sol]

Btw, does anyone know how to submit commentary to the NY court? might be a cool thing to do.

You can submit through efiling online. I’ll send it when I get home from school

Thanks!

[ProgressiveModerate]

Btw, does anyone know how to submit commentary to the NY court? might be a cool thing to do.

You can submit through efiling online. I’ll send it when I get home from school

Thanks!

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=kmywkTvfcaoSsQ66zseQsg==&PageNum=6&narrow=

[ProgressiveModerate]

Also lol at all the letters supporting the Dem State Sen and Congressional map.

Like maybe it's ok in some areas but overall it's def the worst in terms of COI and competitiveness and is very similar to what was made illegal.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of public comments are either from the Orthodox Community or one of the metros upstate, or a minority interests group that has a clear political agenda.

One of the recent ones even argues that "changing districts too much would lead to confusion" like bruh.

[lfromnj]

Also lol at all the letters supporting the Dem State Sen and Congressional map.

Like maybe it's ok in some areas but overall it's def the worst in terms of COI and competitiveness and is very similar to what was made illegal.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of public comments are either from the Orthodox Community or one of the metros upstate, or a minority interests group that has a clear political agenda.

One of the recent ones even argues that "changing districts too much would lead to confusion" like bruh.

The Senate map was only struck down on procedural grounds so it definitely has some argument to leave most of it as is as deference. The congressional maps are lol tier screwed.

[lfromnj]

https://mobile.twitter.com/CERVASJ/status/1522421958444564481?cxt=HHwWgoC-9Y-t3a...

[BigSkyBob]

Also lol at all the letters supporting the Dem State Sen and Congressional map.

Like maybe it's ok in some areas but overall it's def the worst in terms of COI and competitiveness and is very similar to what was made illegal.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of public comments are either from the Orthodox Community or one of the metros upstate, or a minority interests group that has a clear political agenda.

One of the recent ones even argues that "changing districts too much would lead to confusion" like bruh.

The Senate map was only struck down on procedural grounds so it definitely has some argument to leave most of it as is as deference. The congressional maps are lol tier screwed.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. What you dismiss as "procedural grounds" is a definitive decision that a bipartisan commission, and, not the legislature, has the right and duty to redistrict the state on a bipartisan basis. The opinion of some legislators is of no more importance than the opinion of any other New Yorker's. That is, except, that this is one opinion that the Courts should dismiss out of hand given the vote for this plan passed on a purely Democratic partisan vote rather than a bipartisan one. This strongly indicates that this map is far from the bipartisan requirement.

[Nyvin]

Also lol at all the letters supporting the Dem State Sen and Congressional map.

Like maybe it's ok in some areas but overall it's def the worst in terms of COI and competitiveness and is very similar to what was made illegal.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of public comments are either from the Orthodox Community or one of the metros upstate, or a minority interests group that has a clear political agenda.

One of the recent ones even argues that "changing districts too much would lead to confusion" like bruh.

The Senate map was only struck down on procedural grounds so it definitely has some argument to leave most of it as is as deference. The congressional maps are lol tier screwed.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. What you dismiss as "procedural grounds" is a definitive decision that a bipartisan commission, and, not the legislature, has the right and duty to redistrict the state on a bipartisan basis. The opinion of some legislators is of no more importance than the opinion of any other New Yorker's. That is, except, that this is one opinion that the Courts should dismiss out of hand given the vote for this plan passed on a purely Democratic partisan vote rather than a bipartisan one. This strongly indicates that this map is far from the bipartisan requirement.

Shouldn't the same standard be applied to Ohio?

[lfromnj]

https://www.cityandstateny.com/opinion/2022/05/opinion-new-yorks-redistricting-process-doomed-fail/366581/

David Imamura(Democrat/head of commission comments)

[kwabbit]

Also lol at all the letters supporting the Dem State Sen and Congressional map.

Like maybe it's ok in some areas but overall it's def the worst in terms of COI and competitiveness and is very similar to what was made illegal.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of public comments are either from the Orthodox Community or one of the metros upstate, or a minority interests group that has a clear political agenda.

One of the recent ones even argues that "changing districts too much would lead to confusion" like bruh.

The Senate map was only struck down on procedural grounds so it definitely has some argument to leave most of it as is as deference. The congressional maps are lol tier screwed.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. What you dismiss as "procedural grounds" is a definitive decision that a bipartisan commission, and, not the legislature, has the right and duty to redistrict the state on a bipartisan basis. The opinion of some legislators is of no more importance than the opinion of any other New Yorker's. That is, except, that this is one opinion that the Courts should dismiss out of hand given the vote for this plan passed on a purely Democratic partisan vote rather than a bipartisan one. This strongly indicates that this map is far from the bipartisan requirement.

Shouldn't the same standard be applied to Ohio?

I think the Ohio commission included a provision for the legislature to draw the map if the commission broke down. While NY state didn’t and the legislature illegally granted itself that power. I think Big Sky Bob also does not view the OH map as egregious.

[lfromnj]

Also lol at all the letters supporting the Dem State Sen and Congressional map.

Like maybe it's ok in some areas but overall it's def the worst in terms of COI and competitiveness and is very similar to what was made illegal.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of public comments are either from the Orthodox Community or one of the metros upstate, or a minority interests group that has a clear political agenda.

One of the recent ones even argues that "changing districts too much would lead to confusion" like bruh.

The Senate map was only struck down on procedural grounds so it definitely has some argument to leave most of it as is as deference. The congressional maps are lol tier screwed.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. What you dismiss as "procedural grounds" is a definitive decision that a bipartisan commission, and, not the legislature, has the right and duty to redistrict the state on a bipartisan basis. The opinion of some legislators is of no more importance than the opinion of any other New Yorker's. That is, except, that this is one opinion that the Courts should dismiss out of hand given the vote for this plan passed on a purely Democratic partisan vote rather than a bipartisan one. This strongly indicates that this map is far from the bipartisan requirement.

Shouldn't the same standard be applied to Ohio?

I think the Ohio commission included a provision for the legislature to draw the map if the commission broke down. While NY state didn’t and the legislature illegally granted itself that power. I think Big Sky Bob also does not view the OH map as egregious.

Congressionally and legislative are seperate in Ohio. The Congressional ballot measure is workable if the courts are fair, the main issue here was that COVID caused a census delay and the court/plaintiffs messed up procedurally.  In the end the court should have power after 2 attempts by the legislature/commission. The Legislative ballot measure is a true cluster  which justices who do not understand redistricting can not accurately interpret. Also the court literally got jurisdiction stripped with regards to legislative districts.

[lfromnj]

Ritchie Torres testified and just asked for a least change(I mean his current seat is perfectly reasonable). Only issue with his request is population change of the LI districts will slightly push all the NYC districts north unless you do the Biaggimander.

Stephen Dunn also testified, the feed stuttered but he tried to persuade the court based on the fact that his district created the most Asian district in South Brooklyn based on the length of previous Asian groups coming upto testify. Smart man.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Damn I wanted to testify too but I have school.

I submitted a revised map right before the deadline don’t think it’s in the system yet though. Fixes some things up and some changes based on public comment but overall pretty simillar. NY-02 and NY-17 get slightly bluer while NY-03, NY-10, and NY-18 hey slightly redder but nothing major.

It kinda combines a lot of the things I like about the Dunn map with my map.

If they end up doing an NY hearing I’ll def go

[lfromnj]

The Syracuse district is definitely interesting, I think it works fine in any direction tbh, such as the 3 county with Utica or with Ithaca. I guess by a strict definition a court may prefer to avoid Ithaca in order to create 2 competitive districts rather than 0 as part of the NY constitution.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Is there a recording?

[lfromnj]

https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/2022/05/assembly-republicans-sit-out-fight-over-democrats-assembly-maps-00030149

Paywall but the first few paragraphs tell a lot .

[ProgressiveModerate]

My updated proposal btw (on 2020 Pres)

Overall, something like this seems fair from a partisanship standpoint and I think this does a good job at representing COIs, being compact, representing minority interests, and accounting for current lines.

2 relatively safe GOP seats. 9 relatively competitive seats. 15 relatively safe Dem seats.

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

lol Dems don't give up do they? The courts struck down the illegal gerrymander and they propose... another gerrymander

[Nyvin]

lol Dems don't give up do they? The courts struck down the illegal gerrymander and they propose... another gerrymander

It worked in Ohio

[Shaula🏳️‍⚧️]

lol Dems don't give up do they? The courts struck down the illegal gerrymander and they propose... another gerrymander

It worked in Ohio

Difference is the legislature doesn't choose the map here, the court does, which makes it impossible for dems to do the same maneuvering reps did in Ohio. They're just wasting time.

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

Hot take- Tories map will be chosen