2020 New York Redistricting

[lfromnj]

Again, you reassert a claim that is simply false. Class action suits feature "damaged classes" that aren't identified in the census all the time. If Orthodox Jews are entitled to relief, a claim that I have noted is novel and has never been litigated, but, does seem to have merit potentially, then showing a relief map exists is not a real problem. The various Jewish synogogues know who their members are, and, could provide a list without a problem, for instance.

Further, we all know which neighborhoods are Orthodox Jewish. When you see a bunch of the men wearing the same very antiquated Polish fashion you know. The Courts know this.  Everybody knows this.

Your position is not merely self-serving and wrong. It is immoral. What you are arguing is that employers could discriminate against any class not identified in the census, for instance.

They already can,  in most states you can be fired for being gay without any legal consequence for the employer for example. 

Did you forget Bostock?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Again, you reassert a claim that is simply false. Class action suits feature "damaged classes" that aren't identified in the census all the time. If Orthodox Jews are entitled to relief, a claim that I have noted is novel and has never been litigated, but, does seem to have merit potentially, then showing a relief map exists is not a real problem. The various Jewish synogogues know who their members are, and, could provide a list without a problem, for instance.

Further, we all know which neighborhoods are Orthodox Jewish. When you see a bunch of the men wearing the same very antiquated Polish fashion you know. The Courts know this.  Everybody knows this.

Your position is not merely self-serving and wrong. It is immoral. What you are arguing is that employers could discriminate against any class not identified in the census, for instance.

They already can,  in most states you can be fired for being gay without any legal consequence for the employer for example. 

That is no longer true after Bostock v. Clayton County.

[ProgressiveModerate]

One of these things is not like the others

[Sol]

Again, you reassert a claim that is simply false. Class action suits feature "damaged classes" that aren't identified in the census all the time. If Orthodox Jews are entitled to relief, a claim that I have noted is novel and has never been litigated, but, does seem to have merit potentially, then showing a relief map exists is not a real problem. The various Jewish synogogues know who their members are, and, could provide a list without a problem, for instance.

Further, we all know which neighborhoods are Orthodox Jewish. When you see a bunch of the men wearing the same very antiquated Polish fashion you know. The Courts know this.  Everybody knows this.

Your position is not merely self-serving and wrong. It is immoral. What you are arguing is that employers could discriminate against any class not identified in the census, for instance.

They already can,  in most states you can be fired for being gay without any legal consequence for the employer for example. 

That is no longer true after Bostock v. Clayton County.

In fairness Bostock doesn't apply for businesses below 15 people, as well as for public accommodations, etc.

[lfromnj]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

[lfromnj]

https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2022/05/redistricting-chaos-support-grows-consolidating-all-new-york-primary-elections-august/366527/

Seems that now that Democrats are on path to lose the federal case, they will likely consolidate the primaries.

[ProgressiveModerate]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

[lfromnj]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

[ProgressiveModerate]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

Empire literally makes his seat like Biden + 15 lol however the map overall is a light R gerry and tried to hurt Jones and Delgado

[lfromnj]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

Empire literally makes his seat like Biden + 15 lol

Well that does double bunk him with Mondaire Jones who would be favored as the D base has a strong Westchester lean there. So he might have to carpetbag to the Biden +1 Rockland/Orange seat.

[ProgressiveModerate]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

Empire literally makes his seat like Biden + 15 lol

Well that does double bunk him with Mondaire Jones who would be favored as the D base has a strong Westchester lean there. So he might have to carpetbag to the Biden +1 Rockland/Orange seat.

Ye long term a stacked Central Valley config is better for Dems than an east west for this reason, especially since Rockland/Orange has been a mixed bag when it’s come to recent political shifts.

I still wouldn’t bet on Jones being favored though in any race against Maloney.

The Empire map is prolly overall the worst for Dems. The Dunn map is simillar in many ways though

[kwabbit]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

Empire literally makes his seat like Biden + 15 lol

Well that does double bunk him with Mondaire Jones who would be favored as the D base has a strong Westchester lean there. So he might have to carpetbag to the Biden +1 Rockland/Orange seat.

Ye long term a stacked Central Valley config is better for Dems than an east west for this reason, especially since Rockland/Orange has been a mixed bag when it’s come to recent political shifts.

I still wouldn’t bet on Jones being favored though in any race against Maloney.

The Empire map is prolly overall the worst for Dems. The Dunn map is simillar in many ways though

The Hudson valley had strong shifts to Trump in 2016 and then swung to Biden more than any region other than Metro Atlanta in 2020. It’s hard to tell the future of the region politically. I could see Republicans winning a Biden +15 seat easily in 2022, given that that same seat was Clinton +5 and there isn’t demographic change going nor is it that educated.

Then Molinaro demolished Cuomo too as house Dems hugely overperformed. Upstate NY is low key one of the most idiosyncratic regions of the country.

[lfromnj]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

Empire literally makes his seat like Biden + 15 lol

Well that does double bunk him with Mondaire Jones who would be favored as the D base has a strong Westchester lean there. So he might have to carpetbag to the Biden +1 Rockland/Orange seat.

Ye long term a stacked Central Valley config is better for Dems than an east west for this reason, especially since Rockland/Orange has been a mixed bag when it’s come to recent political shifts.

I still wouldn’t bet on Jones being favored though in any race against Maloney.

The Empire map is prolly overall the worst for Dems. The Dunn map is simillar in many ways though

The Hudson valley had strong shifts to Trump in 2016 and then swung to Biden more than any region other than Metro Atlanta in 2020. It’s hard to tell the future of the region politically. I could see Republicans winning a Biden +15 seat easily in 2022, given that that same seat was Clinton +5 and there isn’t demographic change going nor is it that educated.

Then Molinaro demolished Cuomo too as house Dems hugely overperformed. Upstate NY is low key one of the most idiosyncratic regions of the country.

I highly doubt it would be an easy win but I could see a possible win.

[ProgressiveModerate]

By the way this is underdiscussed, but the legislature really gave the middle finger to Sean Patrick Maloney. They drew him a Biden +3 district in their proposal which is even worse than the current seat. Really the only way to draw a worse district is to do the East Bank district and then draw the Orange+Rockland district.

Tbf, it’s hard to give him a much bluer seat without it coming at someone’s expense or being too blatant.

I mean most maps other than Empire State have a better map for Maloney. I can imagine Maloney wanting to be a "team player" to some degree but I can't imagine him wanting such a sh**tty proposal for him.

Empire literally makes his seat like Biden + 15 lol

Well that does double bunk him with Mondaire Jones who would be favored as the D base has a strong Westchester lean there. So he might have to carpetbag to the Biden +1 Rockland/Orange seat.

Ye long term a stacked Central Valley config is better for Dems than an east west for this reason, especially since Rockland/Orange has been a mixed bag when it’s come to recent political shifts.

I still wouldn’t bet on Jones being favored though in any race against Maloney.

The Empire map is prolly overall the worst for Dems. The Dunn map is simillar in many ways though

The Hudson valley had strong shifts to Trump in 2016 and then swung to Biden more than any region other than Metro Atlanta in 2020. It’s hard to tell the future of the region politically. I could see Republicans winning a Biden +15 seat easily in 2022, given that that same seat was Clinton +5 and there isn’t demographic change going nor is it that educated.

Then Molinaro demolished Cuomo too as house Dems hugely overperformed. Upstate NY is low key one of the most idiosyncratic regions of the country.

It’s also relatively depolarized compared to many regions of the country. Hopefully we’ll get a lot of swing seats upstate.

[lfromnj]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Wouldn’t be shocked lol. I feel like I’m all honestly all maps submitted not by an organization are atlas users

[Nyvin]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

[Sol]

Btw, does anyone know how to submit commentary to the NY court? might be a cool thing to do.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Btw, does anyone know how to submit commentary to the NY court? might be a cool thing to do.

You can submit through efiling online. I’ll send it when I get home from school

[ProgressiveModerate]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

[kwabbit]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

Dunn is absolutely Torie. He gives the same arguments as he has in this thread. Torie is also known to live in Hoboken, NJ and as Nyvin says uses chops instead of splits.

I believe Torie used to be a moderate Republican from New York City, so it’s not surprising that he has a soft spot of the NY GOP and is willing to draw them a favorable map.

His map isn’t an R gerrymander by any means. I think it’s hard to detach one’s idea of fairness from the existing map, which does carve up a potential compact South Brooklyn district. Any map that draws the Black areas of Brooklyn into White hipster yuppie Brooklyn instead of White ethnic, Jewish, and Chinese Brooklyn will arrive with a SI swing seat and a Safe R (by 2020 pres) south Brooklyn. Either is reasonable. The latter achieves proportionality if that’s the target though.

[lfromnj]

Btw, does anyone know how to submit commentary to the NY court? might be a cool thing to do.

I would reccomend avoiding your park slope staten island district, It was a fine enough map but it is important to note the Democratic maps were struck down as partisan ferrymanders and that was one of the reasons they were sued under.

[ProgressiveModerate]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

Dunn is absolutely Torie. He gives the same arguments as he has in this thread. Torie is also known to live in Hoboken, NJ and as Nyvin says uses chops instead of splits.

I believe Torie used to be a moderate Republican from New York City, so it’s not surprising that he has a soft spot of the NY GOP and is willing to draw them a favorable map.

His map isn’t an R gerrymander by any means. I think it’s hard to detach one’s idea of fairness from the existing map, which does carve up a potential compact South Brooklyn district. Any map that draws the Black areas of Brooklyn into White hipster yuppie Brooklyn instead of White ethnic, Jewish, and Chinese Brooklyn will arrive with a SI swing seat and a Safe R (by 2020 pres) south Brooklyn. Either is reasonable. The latter achieves proportionality if that’s the target though.

Also can confirm he is by looking at Torie's profile (don't mean to be creepy).

Also his map isn't really an R gerrymander; none of the maps submitted thus far are full on gerrymanders other than arguably Dem map. His map is justifiable by all means, as are pretty much all the submitted maps. There is more than one "justifiable configuration", his just happens to be one that creates more R seats.

[kwabbit]

Also can confirm he is by looking at Torie's profile (don't mean to be creepy).

I don't think Torie is too attached to online anonymity haha. If he was he wouldn't be so open about his life. 

[lfromnj]

Is Stephen Dunn Torie?
https://vhdshf2oms2wcnsvk7sdv3so.blob.core.windows.net/thearp-media/documents/Stephen_Dunns_Resp._Letter_to_Court_5.4.22.pdf

leaving only the far western edge of Putnam County in
NY-18, in order to cause the NY-18 incumbent to still reside in his district, who lives on the Hudson
River in the town of Cold Springs. Very naughty that, and illegal.

Yes, because the paper uses the phrase "chops" and not "splits" like literally everyone else.

Dead giveaway (not that I like outing people on anonymous forums).

I actually ran into this when I submitted maps on the Oregon website, it requires your name be displayed and I almost posted the map on the forum, luckily I caught myself and stopped a few seconds short of posting the map in the Oregon thread.

If Dunn isn't Torie, he seems likely to lean R based on how he defends basically every R possible decision (2 Trump seats in South Brooklyn, Central Valley reconfig, ect). From what I've seen it seems like most Rs or R leaning group maps tend to rely heavily on the Orthodox argument for their districts.

Overall though the Dunn proposal 3 is prolly the best of the "R leaning maps" from a COI and compactness perspective.

Reguardless of whether this is Torie's map or not, I would be curious to know his actual irl leanings and general personality.

Can you guess which map is mine lol? (I don't mind being outed)

Dunn is absolutely Torie. He gives the same arguments as he has in this thread. Torie is also known to live in Hoboken, NJ and as Nyvin says uses chops instead of splits.

I believe Torie used to be a moderate Republican from New York City, so it’s not surprising that he has a soft spot of the NY GOP and is willing to draw them a favorable map.

His map isn’t an R gerrymander by any means. I think it’s hard to detach one’s idea of fairness from the existing map, which does carve up a potential compact South Brooklyn district. Any map that draws the Black areas of Brooklyn into White hipster yuppie Brooklyn instead of White ethnic, Jewish, and Chinese Brooklyn will arrive with a SI swing seat and a Safe R (by 2020 pres) south Brooklyn. Either is reasonable. The latter achieves proportionality if that’s the target though.

Also can confirm he is by looking at Torie's profile (don't mean to be creepy).

Also his map isn't really an R gerrymander; none of the maps submitted thus far are full on gerrymanders other than arguably Dem map. His map is justifiable by all means, as are pretty much all the submitted maps. There is more than one "justifiable configuration", his just happens to be one that creates more R seats.

I mean his map uses a normal elsewhere whole county configuration for Long Island. Almost certain Republicans would not want that.