Impeachment Megathread Part 3

[2016]

I feel pretty good where this thing is going. Let Bolton testify if he has too. Even Republican Senators don't believe what Bolton has to say would be so damaging warranting President Trump to be removed from Office.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

I feel pretty good where this thing is going. Let Bolton testify if he has too. Even Republican Senators don't believe what Bolton has to say would be so damaging warranting President Trump to be removed from Office.

If that were true, they wouldn't be doing everything in their power to prevent him from testifying, you hack.

[2016]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1214630003817750528

The cover up begins

McConnell has the Votes to Start Impeachment Proceedings on his Terms meaning we'll likely get Opening Statements and deal with witnesses later.
Mitt Romney backed his Proposal as did Senators Collins and Murkowski.

Let history remember that Romney, Collins and Murkowski decided, the day after a star witness offered to testify for the first time, that a trial for the most powerful man in the world should not have any witnesses.

For Susan Collins, let voters in 2020 also remember.

If someone hurt you or your family, Collins would say "yes, let's have a show trial, witnesses are unnecessary."  Party of law and order, folks.

What do you want? The President removed from Office. That is just not going happen and you know it. There ain't 67 Votes to remove Trump. Pelosi knows it as well.
The longer she holds onto these Articles the more likely it is Impeachment will turn against the DEMS.

I want an actual trial, with actual witnesses, and some semblance of an actual legal proceeding.

It's like To Kill A Mockingbird.  Everyone knew that Tom was going to be found guilty by a racist white jury.  But Atticus Finch still does his damndest to present the case, lay out the facts, and defend Tom.  Not only because that's how progress happens, by good men striving their hardest against injustice, but also because this is America, and in America we follow the laws of justice.

We don't just lay down our principles and accede to an insulting, degrading show trial simply because the jury has already been rigged and the outcome is already known.  That's what happens in oppressive, backwards countries.  Here in America, the laws of justice are the foundation of our society, and we must follow them, regardless of the outcome.

The Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell, want to have a quick show trial where they completely ignore the charges of impeachment, spend a few days giving speeches on the Senate floor about how awful Joe Biden is and how lawless the Democrats are, maybe bring in a hand-picked "legal expert" to say Trump is 100% innocent and the Democrats are the real criminals, and then vote to acquit and move on.  A complete mockery of justice, a stain on our nation's legacy and an insult to the American people.

You are the biggest hypocrite here on Atlas. McConnell is doing the excat same thing then Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle did in 1998. The Rules for the Impeachment Trail were approved 100-0. The witnesses were called in later.

Given how House Democrats operated here everything smells fishy. The Clinton Impeachment had YEARS OF INVESTIGATIONS, the Nixon Impeachment 14 Months. The Trump Impeachment 12 weeks. Absolutely INSANE by the House Democratic Leadership.

[2016]

I feel pretty good where this thing is going. Let Bolton testify if he has too. Even Republican Senators don't believe what Bolton has to say would be so damaging warranting President Trump to be removed from Office.

If that were true, they wouldn't be doing everything in their power to prevent him from testifying, you hack.

LOL, Lindsey Graham even said what Bolton might say could be good for Trump and Graham is one of the most loyal Trump Supporters.

[GeneralMacArthur]

You are the biggest hypocrite here on Atlas. McConnell is doing the excat same thing then Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle did in 1998. The Rules for the Impeachment Trail were approved 100-0. The witnesses were called in later.

The rules were non-controversial because nobody doubted that the trial would be held fairly and witnesses would be allowed to testify.

McConnell, unlike Daschle, has openly stated he is coordinating with the White House and acting as Trump's arm in the Senate.  Trump doesn't want any witnesses to testify.  Therefore McConnell doesn't want any witnesses to testify, and his claims of "we don't have to specify it ahead of time; trust me, I'll let them testify" are absurdly hollow.

Essentially, requiring an up-front guarantee of witnesses wasn't necessary in 1999, because Daschle wasn't acting in obviously bad faith and both parties trusted him to run a fair trial.  That's not the case for McConnell.  His word is worth less than dog sh*t which is why rules are required.

Given how House Democrats operated here everything smells fishy. The Clinton Impeachment had YEARS OF INVESTIGATIONS, the Nixon Impeachment 14 Months. The Trump Impeachment 12 weeks. Absolutely INSANE by the House Democratic Leadership.

Trump's impeachable offense is extremely obvious and easy to uncover.  The witnesses have been straightforward and presented overwhelming evidence without any digging or investigation required.  The president and his staff have openly confessed on live TV that they committed the impeachable offenses and said "yeah, so what?  who cares?"

This is an absurdly bad-faith argument you're making.  The only thing these two trials have in common is that they involved a president being impeached.  It's like saying because the OJ Simpson murder trial took 18 months, we have to spend 18 months having a trial for Jeffrey Dahmer.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/geoffgarin/status/1214598427742494720

Click to read the whole (very interesting) thread, or see the unrolled version at https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1214598422822559745.html.

[Frodo]

This may or may not be relevant:

Trump donor charged with obstructing inauguration inquiry

Federal prosecutors on Tuesday charged a major donor to President Donald Trump’s inaugural committee with obstructing a federal investigation into whether foreign nationals unlawfully contributed to the inaugural celebrations.

The donor, Imaad Zuberi, recently pleaded guilty in a separate case in Los Angeles to campaign finance violations, tax evasion and failing to register as a foreign agent.

A criminal information filed Tuesday in Manhattan federal court accuses Zuberi, a globe-trotting venture capitalist, of taking “numerous steps” to interfere with the investigation into where the inaugural committee received its funding. Prosecutors say Zuberi backdated a $50,000 check and also deleted emails.

Zuberi's defense attorney declined to comment.

[Frodo]

https://twitter.com/geoffgarin/status/1214598427742494720
Click to read the whole (very interesting) thread, or see the unrolled version at https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1214598422822559745.html.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi definitely knows what she's doing in with-holding the articles of impeachment from the Senate for as long as she has:

6. By 54%to 43%, voters reject the argument that the House impeachment of President Trump was a partisan witch hunt and the Senate should move quickly to find Trump innocent and acquit him of the charges against him.  

7. On the other hand, fully 91% agree (81% strongly agree) that, "Senators must put country before party, listen to all the evidence and carefully consider the facts, and then do their duty to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law."

8. By opposing witnesses and documents that can provide first hand evidence about Trump's actions, Republican senators are burnishing an already pervasive feeling that they are motivated by politics rather than principle. 

9. If the GOP senators vote to acquit, only 32% say it will be because they believe Trump did not commit an impeachable offense, while 54% say they are just following a party line. By contrast, the plurality in MI, NH say Peters/Shaheen are doing what they believe is right.

If Democrats win a majority on the Senate this November as a direct result of voter backlash against Mitch McConnell and Lindsay Graham's rigging of the impeachment trial, they will have much to thank her for.    

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Support for impeachment is actually increasing...

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

[wbrocks67]

Support for impeachment is actually increasing...

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

Yep, new Morning Consult poll has impeachment at +10 and remove at +8

[Sir Mohamed]

Support for impeachment is actually increasing...

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

That will neither affect the floor vote in the senate nor the outcome of the 2020 election. GOP senators do what their (ignorant) constituency expects of them, and these polls haven't moved among the GOP base. As for the election, turnout in certain states and counties will decide its fate.

[Pericles]

Witholding the articles was a win-win for Pelosi imo, and a lose-lose for vulnerable 2020 Republican Senators like Collins. If the Republicans agreed to witnesses, that would have bolstered the case against Trump and so hurt vulnerable Republicans further, especially if the witnesses had been called due to Senators like Collins rebelling-in which case they would also get hit from the base for disloyalty to Trump. In the current scenario of McConnell still going for a partisan trial and keeping the party united, people like Collins are on the record as opposing witnesses and the acquittal is tainted as the product of a rigged sham process, which witholding the articles has emphasized. This also hurts vulnerable Republicans and Trump, and makes a Democratic trifecta in 2020 a bit more plausible.

[gottsu]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-impeachment-live-updates/2020/01/08/aea6ed80-3205-11ea-9313-6cba89b1b9fb_story.html

A growing number of Senate Democrats on Wednesday called on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to send articles of impeachment to the Senate, while Republicans seized on their remarks to ramp up pressure on the California Democrat.

Why they would want that?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Interesting prediction...

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1215028722648190977

I think it's plausible but may be too optimistic.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The person that the GOP like Romney wanted to hear from is the whistleblower, there is none. Pelosi doesnt have much of a case and she wont get witnesses that she didnt call in the House hearing

[BlueSwan]

Interesting prediction...

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1215028722648190977

I think it's plausible but may be too optimistic.

Sane Republicans like Kristol are still under the illusion that a lot of republicans are really like them, when there is massive evidence to the contrary.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

There is no whistleblower,  thus Pelosi has no case on removing Trump, also she doesnt want Trump acquitted before SOTU

[pbrower2a]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1214630003817750528

The cover up begins

McConnell has the Votes to Start Impeachment Proceedings on his Terms meaning we'll likely get Opening Statements and deal with witnesses later.
Mitt Romney backed his Proposal as did Senators Collins and Murkowski.

Let history remember that Romney, Collins and Murkowski decided, the day after a star witness offered to testify for the first time, that a trial for the most powerful man in the world should not have any witnesses.

For Susan Collins, let voters in 2020 also remember.

If someone hurt you or your family, Collins would say "yes, let's have a show trial, witnesses are unnecessary."  Party of law and order, folks.

What do you want? The President removed from Office. That is just not going happen and you know it. There ain't 67 Votes to remove Trump. Pelosi knows it as well.
The longer she holds onto these Articles the more likely it is Impeachment will turn against the DEMS.

I want an actual trial, with actual witnesses, and some semblance of an actual legal proceeding.

It's like To Kill A Mockingbird.  Everyone knew that Tom was going to be found guilty by a racist white jury.  But Atticus Finch still does his damndest to present the case, lay out the facts, and defend Tom.  Not only because that's how progress happens, by good men striving their hardest against injustice, but also because this is America, and in America we follow the laws of justice.

We don't just lay down our principles and accede to an insulting, degrading show trial simply because the jury has already been rigged and the outcome is already known.  That's what happens in oppressive, backwards countries.  Here in America, the laws of justice are the foundation of our society, and we must follow them, regardless of the outcome.

The Republicans, led by Mitch McConnell, want to have a quick show trial where they completely ignore the charges of impeachment, spend a few days giving speeches on the Senate floor about how awful Joe Biden is and how lawless the Democrats are, maybe bring in a hand-picked "legal expert" to say Trump is 100% innocent and the Democrats are the real criminals, and then vote to acquit and move on.  A complete mockery of justice, a stain on our nation's legacy and an insult to the American people.

I wish that I could believe otherwise about an impeachment trial... I expect a fix. I expect McConnell to promote a 'trial' which goes out of seeming control and turns into an inquisition against Democrats for disloyalty to the Greatest President in American History who absolutely must be re-elected in 2020 lest horrible things happen to America.

I expect a majority of Americans to be infuriated.

[Queen Isuelt]

Republicans want to change the rules for impeachment...klobuchar said no and josh hawley just trolled her

https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1215436192134680576

Klobuchar is the Ranking Member of the Senate Rules Committee with jurisdiction over changes to Senate rules 
WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Amy Klobuchar (D-MN), Ranking Member of the Senate Rules Committee with jurisdiction over changes to Senate rules, issued this statement after Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) introduced a resolution demanding the House of Representatives to immediately appoint impeachment managers and transmit the articles of impeachment to the Senate. Earlier this week, Senator Josh Hawley (R-MO) introduced legislation to change the Senate rules to allow Republicans to dismiss the articles of impeachment against the President.

“You don’t get to change the rules in the middle of an impeachment because you want to protect the president from the evidence—attempting to do that on the eve of trial to avoid a full and fair hearing of the facts and evidence would be a violation of senators’ oaths of office. We have a constitutional duty to take this case, and justice demands that we hear from witnesses who have information regarding the allegations against the president. It is that simple. As Ranking Member of the Rules Committee, I will continue to fight against attempts to put the president above the law.”

[Badger]

Interesting prediction...

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1215028722648190977

I think it's plausible but may be too optimistic.

The 12 Republicans number is way too optimistic. Although I wouldn't rule it out, I'm somewhat skeptical that it will even Garner the three or four votes necessary for a majority.

How would a tie vote during impeachment proceedings be resolved, anyway? I'm about 50.1% sure that Pence would not sit as a tiebreaking president of the Senate during such matters? Does that mean chief justice Roberts would cast any tie-breaking Vote? Or would a tie vote simply de-facto fail?

Oh, I'm not sure I never thought of this, but what happens in the event of a tie vote in the house? Fails for lack of a majority I assume?

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Speaker Pelosi just released a statement indicating that she will direct Nadler to pull together House managers and send the articles of impeachment to the Senate sometime next week.  

I know my friends on the left will be disappointed that she didn't hold out longer, but IMO: it's time.  Is it fair? No.  Will it be an uber patisan trial? Almost certainly.  Is this the right attitude to have? Probably not.  

But we all know how this is gonna turn out.  Let's get this over with.  

[Pericles]

Speaker Pelosi just released a statement indicating that she will direct Nadler to pull together House managers and send the articles of impeachment to the Senate sometime next week.  

I know my friends on the left will be disappointed that she didn't hold out longer, but IMO: it's time.  Is it fair? No.  Will it be an uber patisan trial? Almost certainly.  Is this the right attitude to have? Probably not.  

But we all know how this is gonna turn out.  Let's get this over with.  

Indeed, as I said withholding the articles was a win-win. With the latter win achieved it is time for the  articles to be sent over and Senators to be put on the record for voters in 2020 and for history.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Speaker Pelosi just released a statement indicating that she will direct Nadler to pull together House managers and send the articles of impeachment to the Senate sometime next week.  

I know my friends on the left will be disappointed that she didn't hold out longer, but IMO: it's time.  Is it fair? No.  Will it be an uber patisan trial? Almost certainly.  Is this the right attitude to have? Probably not.  

But we all know how this is gonna turn out.  Let's get this over with.  

Indeed, as I said withholding the articles was a win-win. With the latter win achieved it is time for the  articles to be sent over and Senators to be put on the record for voters in 2020 and for history.

I don't know about a win-win, but it's just time to move along.  That being said, I don't mean to diminish the significance of this trial or the process: it's still a historic blip on America's timeline. 

[Tintrlvr]

Interesting prediction...

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1215028722648190977

I think it's plausible but may be too optimistic.

Sane Republicans like Kristol are still under the illusion that a lot of republicans are really like them, when there is massive evidence to the contrary.

I think it's more accurate to describe it as a delusion rather than an illusion at this point, but totally agreed.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Let me correct myself: the statement from Pelosi doesn't specify that she is necessarily sending the articles to the Senate next week, but that she may send them AS SOON AS next week.  

Per nbcnews:

The letter also suggested that the House could name its managers, who will act as the prosecutors of President Donald Trump for the Senate trial, and transmit the two articles of impeachment against the president as soon as next week. But Pelosi gave no specific indication of exactly when she intends to send the articles to the Senate, a step that is necessary for the trial to begin.

Sorry, guys! That was a screw-up on my part!