Impeachment Megathread Part 3

[pbrower2a]

Making a New Years' Resolution to start posting on the topic here is cheap. You may have little chance to do otherwise, but unless you resolve to quit discussing impeachment altogether.... here you are.  

Old thread.
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=340622.0

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://mobile.twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1212746993979838464
Once again more proof Trump is dead to rights guilty but won’t face any consequences

[Inmate Trump]

I have nothing really to add to the discussion other than to say it truly astounds me to see people still supporting Trump after all of the revelations.

Not just his attempt to bribe a foreign country to help him cheat in an election...but ALL of the things he's done.

These are decent people who have been brainwashed somehow to believe Trump is a good person and/or a good president; they've been brainwashed into believing that the end justifies the means, which it certainly does not if the means involve supporting modern day fascism.  I have never been so sad, bewildered, and ashamed for and of my fellow countrymen.  To support Trump is disgusting.  I don't care what your personal politics are, supporting Trump goes beyond that.  The man is evil and what he represents is evil.

Trump supporters are in the same bed with the KKK, Nazis, and other worsts of the worsts in our society.

[Hindsight was 2020]

And you notice none of Atlas blue (OSR and Penn accepted of course) will actually engage on the details of this case

[pbrower2a]

On the other hand, the case is going to some simulation of a legal process. Ordinarily it is wise to not speculate on the course of a legal process under litigation. Thus I do not usually discuss a criminal or civil case aside from what is presented in the court. That is where the decision will be made, and in a criminal case a jury can easily nullify what everyone else believes.

The House phase is analogous to a grand jury; a grand jury exists solely to determine whether a case for prosecution exists. Criminal defendants rarely get cleared in a grand jury trial.

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

And you notice none of Atlas blue (OSR and Penn accepted of course) will actually engage on the details of this case

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.  I was admittedly on the fence about this whole notion of "impeachable offenses".  But I think it was necessary, if for nothing else, to send the message that the President isn't free to do whatever he or she wants.

India is my birth nation, but America is my home.  And my loyalty is to this country, not the President -- Democrat or Republican.  

[Inmate Trump]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/politics/unredacted-ukraine-documents-pentagon-concerns/index.html

"White House budget official told Pentagon that order to hold Ukraine aid came from Trump, national security site reports"

Newly unredacted documents link hold on Ukraine aid to Trump.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

https://twitter.com/julianzelizer/status/1212890870690799616?s=21

[GeneralMacArthur]

https://twitter.com/julianzelizer/status/1212890870690799616?s=21

As if the marginal extra damaging information is going to make any difference at all to anybody.

55% of America wants Trump impeached.  45% have spent the last 4 years defending literally thousands of deplorable actions and aren't ever going to admit, to themselves or their peers, that they were wrong the whole time.  It's too much of their identity.  We just have to get rid of Trump and start fresh.

[Inmate Trump]

No worries dude, we’re over 2016.  But we have a president who broke the law, so we have to impeach him.  We are fully aware the Senate won’t remove him.  That doesn’t mean we aren’t supposed to do our duty as citizens and that the House isn’t supposed to do its job by impeaching him.

But good luck with your blind devotion and betrayal of your country.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Well at least JA is dropping the charade about not liking Trump. If only Taibbi and Greenwald followed through as well

[pbrower2a]

We know the reality. We liberals can do nothing about it -- and we do not have the grimy duty to pretend that our pain at recognizing that Donald Trump is President is in fact the most wondrous delight in human existence... even better than sex. This isn't Stalinland or Hitlerland, but it is getting closer, and any political motion in such a direction is an abomination.

The election that now matters is the one ten months from now, the one that will decide whether America is a leader in the Free World or becomes an Evil Empire. In case you didn't catch on, we are now exactly three times closer to the 2020 election than to the 2016 election. The past is always clearer than the future, and we all better understand what happened even a century ago than we understand what will happen in five years. Look at it this way: people better understood in May 1943 how the American Civil War ended than how WWII would end.

Some of us think we have insights on human character, and some are obvious enough. Those who do criminal acts are likely to offend again, and practically every employer has a reasonable expectation that someone incapable of meeting the demands of manual dexterity cannot learn manual dexterity any more than that someone who doesn't understand the basics of engineering cannot learn those on the job. Donald Trump has shown his character clearly, and it is awful no matter what his ideology.

We have a process of impeachment tailor-made for stopping a would-be dynast, dictator, or despot -- if we use it properly. It is not for stopping incompetence; it is not the parliamentary vote of no confidence that can compel a new election. It can thwart criminality and corruption -- if we use it properly and when it is appropriate, By God, it is essential today.

The Founding Fathers never defined what "high crimes and misdemeanors" were. Being in a drunken haze at all times might not be criminal, but it has been grounds for impeaching and removing federal judges, as was done in the first instance. The criminal code is obvious enough. It might not be so clear about violations of traffic laws -- the President ordinarily leaves the driving to someone else. Some misdeeds were beyond the scope of imagination at the time of the Constitution, such as wire fraud; there was not even the telegraph in operation until the 1840's.

We need impeachment as a deterrent to such deeds as war crimes.  

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Are you twelve years old?  And that's coming from someone who looks like she's twelve years old.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

A new FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos poll shows that 57% of Americans believe Trump committed an impeachable offense.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-poll-finds-a-majority-of-americans-think-the-evidence-supports-trumps-removal/

[pbrower2a]

A new FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos poll shows that 57% of Americans believe Trump committed an impeachable offense.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/our-poll-finds-a-majority-of-americans-think-the-evidence-supports-trumps-removal/

It's sinking in.

[Crumpets]

Well at least JA is dropping the charade about not liking Trump. If only Taibbi and Greenwald followed through as well

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1213153769111863303

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Most Americans are now concerned with war on Terror as gas gouging at the pump is taking its toll on American pocketbooks. As the terrorist killing reemerged the need for Homeland defense. I could care less about Russia or Ukraine now. But, Russia, since Iran/Iraq war has given money to Iran

[junior chįmp]

Most Americans are now concerned with war on Terror as gas gouging at the pump is taking its toll on American pocketbooks. As the terrorist killing reemerged the need for Homeland defense. I could care less about Russia or Ukraine now. But, Russia, since Iran/Iraq war has given money to Iran

Trump is third term Dubya

[Badger]

And you notice none of Atlas blue (OSR and Penn accepted of course) will actually engage on the details of this case

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.  I was admittedly on the fence about this whole notion of "impeachable offenses".  But I think it was necessary, if for nothing else, to send the message that the President isn't free to do whatever he or she wants.

India is my birth nation, but America is my home.  And my loyalty is to this country, not the President -- Democrat or Republican.  

"A RINO like you getting into bed with the libtards by going against the President should probably go back to where you came from!" /Typical Trump supporter

Sorry, but I fear it's true.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/AaronBlake/status/1214228968188059648

Interesting...

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1214230077703098368

[Non Swing Voter]

What a coward.  Will he testify in front of the house too? 

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

I would say the House should just go ahead and subpoena him if he has now announced that he is willing to testify. Schedule hearings in a few days to a week or so, no need to wait on McConnell, who will never do anything about it in the first place.

[GP270watch]

 Bolton is probably thrilled that Trump is increasing hostilities with Iran. He refused to testify to the House and now is saying he will cooperate with the Senate, where Republicans will obviously shape the narrative.