2020 Labour Leadership Election

[MABA 2020]

Starmer might be the best of the three, but I still have a lot of residual dislike for his pushing of the second referendum issue, so I dunno I'll probably vote for Nandy in vain

[DL]

I see a lot of chatter from some people about the Labour leadership saying "Oh Starmer is pro-remain so he will do badly in Leave constituencies in the north etc..." but I think that's a silly argument. The next UK election won't be until 2024 and by then either Brexit will have been a total fiasco - in which case people like Starmer will be vindicated or it will be less of a fiasco in which case it will be a non-issue and the next election will be about something else. If you are a "leave" voter you got your way and the UK will no longer be part of the EU - so unless a Starmer-led Labour party runs on a platform of re-joining the EU (highly, highly unlikely) - what do you care about who was on what side 5 years earlier?

[EastAnglianLefty]

That argument has always had more to do with the campaign Starmer's opponents wish he was running than the one he actually is.

All the candidates have the same Brexit policy going forward - trying not to talk about it, because it's not a vote winner for Labour. And whilst he had a more central role in the creation of the policy, if it is a live issue at the next election and if that's to the government's benefit (either is possible, the combination is probably unlikely) then all of the candidates could be hit on that, as RLB backed a second referendum and Nandy voted against the deal. If you're a voter who loves Brexit, the point of comparison is going to be the Labour leader vs. the Conservative leader, not the Labour leader vs. the person they defeated in the leadership contest. So the distinction between the candidates' past positions doesn't really signify.

[DaWN]

It may shock you all to know this poll has done nothing to change my opinion on this contest.

[MABA 2020]

But isn't brexit just a poxy in the culture war? So even if brexit itself isn't a live issue, Starmer will still read as "out of touch metropolitan liberal" which is basically the same as remainer. Even if Nandy says all the same stuff, I feel like she'd be a better messenger. Or at least she'd be able to connect more to those lost voters despite having basically the same message

[DL]

Who could be more of an “out of touch metropolitan elite intellectual snob” than Boris Johnson? Anyways, you can pick a leader to try to refight the 2019 election. Who the hell knows what the zeitgeist will be in 2024?

[Blair]

It may shock you all to know this poll has done nothing to change my opinion on this contest.

You sound much like I did in 2015 and 2016!

[Blair]

But isn't brexit just a poxy in the culture war? So even if brexit itself isn't a live issue, Starmer will still read as "out of touch metropolitan liberal" which is basically the same as remainer. Even if Nandy says all the same stuff, I feel like she'd be a better messenger. Or at least she'd be able to connect more to those lost voters despite having basically the same message

The spin that a life long labour staffer who was a councillor in Hammersmith & granddaughter/Daughter of a liberal peer & an academic is less of this than Starmer is quite impressive

[EastAnglianLefty]

Voters who are looking for an excuse not to vote for a Labour candidate will always find an excuse not to do so, so being 'metropolitan' doesn't really matter in the abstract. It only matters when the candidate fails to create a sufficiently strong positive reason to vote for them.

This is slightly more of an issue for Starmer than Nandy (as electability isn't a fixed quality, but needs to be constantly renewed and he isn't overly charismatic) but it's also the sort of thing that can never be reliably predicted on a five year timescale.

[CumbrianLefty]

It may shock you all to know this poll has done nothing to change my opinion on this contest.

You sound much like I did in 2015 and 2016!

I think that means their "opinion" that RLB is still going to win it......

[MABA 2020]

But isn't brexit just a poxy in the culture war? So even if brexit itself isn't a live issue, Starmer will still read as "out of touch metropolitan liberal" which is basically the same as remainer. Even if Nandy says all the same stuff, I feel like she'd be a better messenger. Or at least she'd be able to connect more to those lost voters despite having basically the same message

The spin that a life long labour staffer who was a councillor in Hammersmith & granddaughter/Daughter of a liberal peer & an academic is less of this than Starmer is quite impressive

Thanks

[CumbrianLefty]

Nandy can quite reasonably be argued to have the *most* middle class background of the three hopefuls, though many of us find this "authentocrat" posturing distinctly tedious in any case.

[MABA 2020]

She might have the most middle class background, but she doesn't come across that way (or maybe it's just me) and I don't find her desire to reach out to Labours lost voters as tedious or posturing. There's a long time until the next election, but we need someone who will take seriously the job of rebuilding our coalition

[CumbrianLefty]

Genuinely wanting to win back lost Labour voters is not "authentocracy".

[DL]

Nandy can quite reasonably be argued to have the *most* middle class background of the three hopefuls, though many of us find this "authentocrat" posturing distinctly tedious in any case.

Starmer seems to have the most impeccably "working class' credentials. His mother was a nurse and his father was a machinist. But I guess since he grew up in Surrey he doesn't talk with that northern twang that many people stereotypically associate with being working class in the UK

[CumbrianLefty]

In contrast to that, Jess Phillips (daughter of a teacher and NHS manager) has a regional accent - so is automatically as working class as they come. Our media class really are almost infinitely gullible.

[DL]

Has the UK ever had a PM who spoke with anything resembling a working class accent? Judging from The Crown, it sounds like Harold Wilson had a bit of Yorkshire accent, but not a particularly strong one....not sure what Ramsay McDonald or Clement Attlee sounded like.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Starmer seems to have the most impeccably "working class' credentials. His mother was a nurse and his father was a machinist. But I guess since he grew up in Surrey he doesn't talk with that northern twang that many people stereotypically associate with being working class in the UK

That he comes from a humble background is immediately obvious. Specifically, it is very obvious that he comes from a humble background And Has Done Well. All sorts of little clues (in the pattern of his speech, in his dress sense, the way he carries himself etc) that more people will pick up subliminally than consciously. Maybe journalists won't, but they are largely frivolous and unobservant people who miss things that most do not. He would, of course, be the first Labour leader from a working class family since Kinnock.

Anyway, I'll note that his family background is quite an interesting one to reflect on given the past few years: skilled working class who moved out of the city for better employment prospects and home ownership. One of the few clear signals he has given* as to the sort of direction he would take Labour in is that he would like to see it focus more on the broad middle of society. Which some people read as 'middle class', but, no, that is not what he said...

_{*Do not read this as a criticism. He's in this to win it and from the position he has found himself in, saying as little as possible is the best strategy.}

[DL]

He (Starmer) would, of course, be the first Labour leader from a working class family since Kinnock.

What sort of class background does Corbyn have?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Has the UK ever had a PM who spoke with anything resembling a working class accent? Judging from The Crown, it sounds like Harold Wilson had a bit of Yorkshire accent, but not a particularly strong one....not sure what Ramsay McDonald or Clement Attlee sounded like.

To be more specific, Wilson had a mild Huddersfield accent. Accents in that part of Yorkshire were not (and are not) particularly tied to class. Callaghan had a working/lower middle class urban Channel ports (I was about to write 'Portsmouth' but it had a wider distribution) accent of a type that is largely extinct now. MacDonald had a very strong rural north east of Scotland accent ('Doric') leavened by decades as a stump-speaker in England. David Lloyd George had a very distinctive humble-but-educated North Walian accent and there were traces in his speech that immediately marked him as someone whose first language was Welsh. Little point asking about anyone else.

Attlee had the most impeccably perfect lower upper middle class accent of his generation imaginable. No one speaks like that now, of course.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

He (Starmer) would, of course, be the first Labour leader from a working class family since Kinnock.

What sort of class background does Corbyn have?

Upper middle. And relating this to accent chat: he talks like a posh farmer from east Shropshire, which makes sense given where he was educated.

[Lord Halifax]

Attlee had the most impeccably perfect lower upper middle class accent of his generation imaginable. No one speaks like that now, of course.

There are lower upper middle class accents and upper upper middle class accents?? What a bizarre country.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Attlee had the most impeccably perfect lower upper middle class accent of his generation imaginable. No one speaks like that now, of course.

There are lower upper middle class accents and upper upper middle class accents?? What a bizarre country.

Not really now, but in Attlee's day, when this really was A Class Society, then, yes.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Reluctantly backing 1. Nandy 2. Starmer. Tougher choice than I expected because neither of them particularly excite me, both having obvious weak points. If one could combine Starmer's attention to detail with Nandy's ability to communicate you'd have a very formidable politician, alas...

[tomhguy]

Just voted!
1. Nandy
2. Starmer
3. RLB