UK General Discussion:The Rt. Hon Alex Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, Populist Hero

[Suburbia]

Happy 2022, Britain!!

It will be a momentous year for you. It may be an end of an era regarding the royals, another unstable Tory government, England may win the 2022 World Cup and Welsh and Scottish independence talks may increase.....................

[Suburbia]

Blair won three general elections for Labour. Jeremy and Ten Pound Trots Leftism will not win any general elections for Labour.

[Suburbia]

Starmer had it right when he said Labour should be proud of Blair's government. If you have a Labour government for 13 years, you can do a lot of progressive stuff such as significantly reducing child poverty and introducing the minimum wage. Labour needs to remind people of the good stuff they did, this helps people believe in what they are offering for the future.

[TheTide]

Starmer had it right when he said Labour should be proud of Blair's government. If you have a Labour government for 13 years, you can do a lot of progressive stuff such as significantly reducing child poverty and introducing the minimum wage. Labour needs to remind people of the good stuff they did, this helps people believe in what they are offering for the future.

The minimum wage was introduced in that socialist paradise known as the United States before the Second World War. The fact that it took so long for it to be introduced in the United Kingdom says more about this country than it does about any of its parties or politicians.

[(no subject)]

Ramsay MacDonald was naive to expect he could just return to Labour after betraying them and enabling Tory cruelty and horrific misery.

[Oryxslayer]

Starmer had it right when he said Labour should be proud of Blair's government. If you have a Labour government for 13 years, you can do a lot of progressive stuff such as significantly reducing child poverty and introducing the minimum wage. Labour needs to remind people of the good stuff they did, this helps people believe in what they are offering for the future.

The minimum wage was introduced in that socialist paradise known as the United States before the Second World War. The fact that it took so long for it to be introduced in the United Kingdom says more about this country than it does about any of its parties or politicians.

Honest question here for someone who is always confused when this statistic is brought up: Why didn't Atlee's government implement one alongside all the other New Jerusalem and postwar programs?

[(no subject)]

Attlee felt restrained from forcing too much past the Tory controlled Lords, even with the Parliament Acts.

[gerritcole]

Blair won three general elections for Labour. Jeremy and Ten Pound Trots Leftism will not win any general elections for Labour.

blair is the only human to have led labour to victory in 48 years... what does MP Nadia Whittome have to say?

[(no subject)]

Blair won three general elections for Labour. Jeremy and Ten Pound Trots Leftism will not win any general elections for Labour.

blair is the only human to have led labour to victory in 48 years... what does MP Nadia Whittome have to say?

“I looked a lot prettier when i was Leon Trotsky”?

[MABA 2020]

It feels weird that I, a right-winger, am probably one of the only people here that actually likes Tony Blair.

Actually no on second thoughts that isn't weird - it makes perfect sense...

I like his governments and record aside from the obvious stupid war, the man himself I'm conflicted about

[(no subject)]

Most people opposed Afghanistan and Iraq because they wanted the USA to fail, not because they were concerned about the people under the Taliban or Saddam.

[CumbrianLefty]

It feels weird that I, a right-winger, am probably one of the only people here that actually likes Tony Blair.

Actually no on second thoughts that isn't weird - it makes perfect sense...

Depends what you mean by "like" I suppose.

Though many now claim it with hindsight, those on the left who *always* disliked him were a small (even if vocal) minority. I personally have absolutely no problem in recognising that at his peak he was a totally compelling, inspiring and persuasive politician - comparable to only a handful of others since WW2. Not only did I "like" him in those years, at times a stronger word may have applied

But this makes his subsequent decline and fall all the more tragic and difficult to deal with. And many of his remaining professed "true believers" are some of the weirdest and most cult-like types currently out there (and at their worst, amongst the most unpleasant too)

[Silent Hunter]

Most people opposed Afghanistan and Iraq because they wanted the USA to fail, not because they were concerned about the people under the Taliban or Saddam.

Not sure you can make that statement. Certainly, there is a strong current of anti-Americanism among the anti-war left, who have been quite willing to take the Iranian rial or Russian rouble on occasions. But to say they had no concern for those people is untrue.

[Silent Hunter]

Speaking of anti-war left, Vanessa Redgrave accepted a damehood.

[(no subject)]

Speaking of anti-war left, Vanessa Redgrave accepted a damehood.

You seem a lot more surprised than I am. Like I said, people like Redgrave wanted the USA to get a black eye and just pretended it was really in support of peace and non violence.

[Silent Hunter]

It's quite a remarkable move for someone with Redgrave's known views to accept an award literally named after the British Empire.

[(no subject)]

To Redgrave:

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The minimum wage was introduced in that socialist paradise known as the United States before the Second World War. The fact that it took so long for it to be introduced in the United Kingdom says more about this country than it does about any of its parties or politicians.

It does, but not for the reasons you think. See below...

Honest question here for someone who is always confused when this statistic is brought up: Why didn't Atlee's government implement one alongside all the other New Jerusalem and postwar programs?

A statutory minimum wage had been one of Labour's original policies at the party's foundation, but had been abandoned by the 1940s as it had become unpopular with the Trade Unions, who disliked direct governmental interference in the setting of pay and workplace benefits* and in particular had come to believe that nationally mandated 'wage floors' reduced their ability to bargain effectively. What the Attlee government did instead was to substantially increase the powers and responsibilities of Wage Councils (previously a rather ineffectual set of bodies designed largely to eliminate sweatshops), essentially allowing them to set minimum wages on a sectorial basis. The Wage Councils were a classic piece of postwar corporatism (tripartite composition and everything; the works) and while they worked well on their own terms at first, by the 1950s government, employers and Unions all began to see them as a bit of a nuisance and it was generally felt more convenient if matters could be negotiated directly (as the legislation permitted). As the decades rolled by, they became increasingly irrelevant but they were only formally abolished in the 1980s just as Trade Union membership and influence was crashing through the floor.

_{*This is also why what has been called statutory sick pay since 1983 is very low. In that case the assumption historically was that this was the responsibility of the employer and any relevant Trade Unions, with the role of the State being to top things up. And in many workplaces this old corporatist set-up does still function, it's just that with the decline of both Trade Unionism and Paternalist attitudes from employers there are now rather a lot where this is not the case...}

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

To observe a similar thing in real time: the Swedish and Danish current social democratic governments heavily resisting EU attempts to force a minimum wage. Same with Germany, which only brought in a minimum wage under the grand coalition, partially as a consequence of the post Agenda 2010 jobs market.

[Conservatopia]

It feels weird that I, a right-winger, am probably one of the only people here that actually likes Tony Blair.

Actually no on second thoughts that isn't weird - it makes perfect sense...

Depends what you mean by "like" I suppose.

Though many now claim it with hindsight, those on the left who *always* disliked him were a small (even if vocal) minority. I personally have absolutely no problem in recognising that at his peak he was a totally compelling, inspiring and persuasive politician - comparable to only a handful of others since WW2. Not only did I "like" him in those years, at times a stronger word may have applied

But this makes his subsequent decline and fall all the more tragic and difficult to deal with. And many of his remaining professed "true believers" are some of the weirdest and most cult-like types currently out there (and at their worst, amongst the most unpleasant too)

Yes I can't disagree - Blairites can be very bizarre. Liz Kendall is one of the more normal ones and she's sometimes pretty wacky.

I'm obviously no Blairite though it probably won't surprise you to learn that I broadly support the Iraq War.

[(no subject)]

Those left wingers who  gloat about the failure in Afghanistan cannot now complain the next time some junta massacres its own people and the west looks on with indifference.

[Blair]

I think, despite my username, that there is a world of difference between the Blair premiership and Blair himself as a man; with the latter being a lot worse than the former. Disregarding his rather shameful earnings the worse element was his support for the Trump administration & the desecration that they carried out on Middle East Peace.

His views on foreign affairs and specifically security have only got more bizarre since he left office & would been seen as even more reactionary if they had not come from a politician from a centre-left party.

The Blair premiership will most likely be the longest serving centre-left Government for most of my adult life & therefore was able to reshape so much of society and politics- much of which was stuff first pioneered by the New Left in the 1980s.

Crucially it also did much reforming in a deep enough way that parts of it were impossible for the Conservatives to unpick- such as the tax credits.

Before Blair the trend was that a Labour Government gets elected, has a good first term but then struggles before getting booted out after 5-6 years, with a vicious bout of infighting and then is lucky to return with a weak minority government.

I think the old practice of giving the PM a seat in the lords is better than a knighthood; but it was widely reported that Blair didn't want this due to the limits it imposes on his outside earnings.

As pointed out above, some kind of serious honour basically goes with the territory.* The norm used to be a peerage but the last to accept one of those was Thatcher. Blair 'ought' to have had something a while ago, but it was an open secret that the Queen was holding out on that as she found his actions after Diana died to be gauche, even though they likely saved in the monarchy in its present form. We could take this as another sign that she's largely retired from her constitutional functions now, except formally.

Ramsay MacDonald would be the latest non-death exemption

His death was unexpected, though it was no secret that he was not well, and he was still technically politically active as MP for Combined Scottish Universities and as Lord President of the Council. Had he retired on paper as well as in practice he would certainly have been given something.

_{*Which means that, yes, David Cameron will indeed get something in the post as well at some point. I know. I know. But we must prepare ourselves.}

It of course can't have helped that he wrote about how his last child was conceived at Balmoral!

It was also briefed that that the delay in giving Mr Tony his honour had jammed up the system; as the custom for this one is that the PMs have to receive it in the order of when they served.

The point about Cameron is interesting- for all his faults Mr Tony still has a small & vocal fan club- and wins plaudits from the right in the same way that Thatcher got a begrudging nod from the left for her ruthless effectiveness. 

Cameron lacks either of them & even more so lacks anything resembling a positive legacy; his former communications chief was asked about this in the Times and was only able to point to the National Citizen Service and a fund for Alzheimers- which are lesser achievements than some backbenchers. 

[CumbrianLefty]

Interesting that they didn't mention gay marriage isn't it.

(though that might not be unconnected with most Tory MPs at the time voting against)

[Conservatopia]

Interesting that they didn't mention gay marriage isn't it.

(though that might not be unconnected with most Tory MPs at the time voting against)

To me that was always a Lib Dem "achievement".

[Blair]

Brilliant. This is why I could never be a civil servant.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1477560271694614538