Israeli General Election (2nd of March, 2020): Madness

[Zinneke]

AM I reading correctly? Liberals actually saying and liking the idea of a military coup as an alternative to Netenyahu? As long as the democratic exercise of going to vote is free and fair there is absolutely no justification for the military to step in. Its an admission of institutional failure.

[Hnv1]

AM I reading correctly? Liberals actually saying and liking the idea of a military coup as an alternative to Netenyahu? As long as the democratic exercise of going to vote is free and fair there is absolutely no justification for the military to step in. Its an admission of institutional failure.

Yes you read right, it’s not uncommon for secular military coups around here.

Why would liberals accept your low democratic threshold of right to vote? We care about more than that. What would a right to vote help in a country where my human rights aren’t constitutionally guaranteed? Or the government is discriminating in other fields but is keeping a clean cut appearance for election? What about an unelected government using a loophole to govern for over a year due to criminal proceedings and refusing to accept the actual participation of a segment of the population.

Formal democracy is of no significance for liberals. We care about autonomy and human dignity, formal democracy is instrumental for the fulfillment of those at best.

[Hnv1]

(Also, the IDF's culture is nothing like that of the Turkish military, so if it did take power in a moment of extreme political crisis - which it won't, let's be real - I'm pretty confident they'd restore democracy as soon as possible.)

A promise that has been made many times in the past, but not always kept.

Israeli culture and the structure of the IDF make the idea untenable anyhow. An army of conscripts and reservists aren’t going to maintain military order on their aunts and uncles for long, an the IDF as an institution would want to rid itself from this obligation.

It’s no accidents the only time hushed military coups were discussed were at times of war (48 and twice in 67) for only very short periods to achieve some objective.

[Antonio the Sixth]

AM I reading correctly? Liberals actually saying and liking the idea of a military coup as an alternative to Netenyahu? As long as the democratic exercise of going to vote is free and fair there is absolutely no justification for the military to step in. Its an admission of institutional failure.

Netanyahu is still wielding considerable unaccountable power after losing three elections in a row and has shown eagerness to use unconstitutional means to stay in power. He is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israeli democracy in a way an army of conscripts, as Hnv pointed out, structurally couldn't be.

[jaymichaud]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gantz-no-idea-if-unity-will-succeed-will-go-to-elections-with-head-held-high/

He really just needs to resign at this point and let Gabi Ashkenazi take over the party. He’s made all the wrong decisions in the exact wrong order. You really couldn’t make it up.

[The Mikado]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/gantz-no-idea-if-unity-will-succeed-will-go-to-elections-with-head-held-high/

He really just needs to resign at this point and let Gabi Ashkenazi take over the party. He’s made all the wrong decisions in the exact wrong order. You really couldn’t make it up.

His party itself is irrevocably tainted by this, though, right? If you want Netanyahu to not be the next Israeli PM, why on Earth would you vote for Gantz's party after it expressed willingness to go into coalition, whether Gantz is leading it or not?

[jaymichaud]

This is pretty badass.

[Walmart_shopper]

A final go at talks has faltered and Gantz appears set to table legislation that will not only prevent Netanyahu from serving as PM after a fourth election, but it will somewhat paradoxically guarantee such a fourth election. Bibi seems convinced that he can get a parliamentary majority that will be solid enough to break through any legal hurdle. Gantz's legislation would theoretically require 80 votes to overturn--a Netanyahu majority may overturn it anyway. The Supreme Court may rule that even without such a law Netanyahu could not form a government--a Netanyahu majority may let him do it anyway.

It's going to be a wild ride.

[Zinneke]

AM I reading correctly? Liberals actually saying and liking the idea of a military coup as an alternative to Netenyahu? As long as the democratic exercise of going to vote is free and fair there is absolutely no justification for the military to step in. Its an admission of institutional failure.

Netanyahu is still wielding considerable unaccountable power after losing three elections in a row and has shown eagerness to use unconstitutional means to stay in power. He is a clear and present danger to the survival of Israeli democracy in a way an army of conscripts, as Hnv pointed out, structurally couldn't be.

As far as my reading goes, he really isn't. He is still subject to the oversight of the Knesset, which the foundation of Israeli democracy, by virtue of the fact that the Knesset can still table a bill such as the one Gantz is preparing right now. The very fact that they have a genuine opposition willing to unite and depose Netanyahu in a bill to block him from standing again is already proof enough that this is not some fake parliament

We obviously have very different litmus tests when it comes to evaluating democracy. I think when the legislative still has the power to cripple or overthrow the executive that's a sign of a reasonably healthy democracy. I think when the press are not censored or hijacked by foreign assets or internal corporatists interests, that's also a reasonable sign of healthy public debate and democracy (although I must admit I don't know the full media landscape in Israel). Whilst I believe Palestinians living in annexed or settler areas and the so called "Palestinian Question" in general is a massive blow the credibility of Israeli democracy and it is an injustice in Israeli society that annexed areas will only allow Jews to vote, in the current situation, there is absolutely no justification to ask the military to step in, unlike in Turkey where the legislative, executive and judicial are all completely hijacked by what is a borderline deep state, and the press has difficulty maintaining independence without being thrown in jail.

Military intervention in civilian affairs creates a dangerous precedent, even in a country where conscription is present. Using it as a trump card every time an incompetent or corrupt ruler. Its usually reserved by romantic university scholars who think they know better for developing countries where the military is the only institution that is remotely functional and thus has to take care of regalian ministries to not allow either foreign or domestic corporatist interests to take over.  It is really not applicable to Israel.

[jaymichaud]

They’ve reached an agreement, apparently, maybe. We’ll see.

[cp]

They’ve reached an agreement, apparently, maybe. We’ll see.

Where is that being reported?

[CumbrianLefty]

They’ve reached an agreement, apparently, maybe. We’ll see.

What, again?

[Cassius]

[Walmart_shopper]

An agreement should be signed within an hour. Or so they say.

[Hnv1]

This is my nightmare. an hawkish government with a populist-leftist economic agenda (Nissenkoren, Peretz, Shmoli, Heimovic et al).

on the other hand, I can't really cope with a 4th election cycle

[RogueBeaver]

https://twitter.com/Gil_Hoffman/status/1252266865356931072

[America Needs R'hllor]

Good, overall. No election and at least a semblance of a non-far right government. We had dreams of removing Netanyahu or creating a leftist minority government, but nothing can be done about that now (except throwing Drek Eretz to the dirt next election)

[PSOL]

Good, overall. No election and at least a semblance of a non-far right government. We had dreams of removing Netanyahu or creating a leftist minority government, but nothing can be done about that now (except throwing Drek Eretz to the dirt next election)

This will stay just that, just a dream. Only that the dream doesn’t occur as you are cursed to live in a state of alertness without rest from here on out.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Good, overall. No election and at least a semblance of a non-far right government. We had dreams of removing Netanyahu or creating a leftist minority government, but nothing can be done about that now (except throwing Drek Eretz to the dirt next election)

This will stay just that, just a dream. Only that the dream doesn’t occur as you are cursed to live in a state of alertness without rest from here on out.

I think we underestimate how close we were to a minority government.

[jaymichaud]

Will Yamina and/or Labor enter?

[Hnv1]

Will Yamina and/or Labor enter?

Yamina probably not (maybe Peretz alone). Labour will go in, Michaeli might leave

[jaymichaud]

Will Yamina and/or Labor enter?

Yamina probably not (maybe Peretz alone). Labour will go in, Michaeli might leave

Will she have to give up her seat, then? Or is Meretz still asking her to join?

[America Needs R'hllor]

Annexation is approved to start in July 1st without a Gantz ability to veto. And the judiciary committee will have a conservative majority- there's supposed to be an opposition and coalition representative, but it ended up with a Likud rep and a KL rep who will be motherf**ing Hauser.

[Hnv1]

Will Yamina and/or Labor enter?

Yamina probably not (maybe Peretz alone). Labour will go in, Michaeli might leave

Will she have to give up her seat, then? Or is Meretz still asking her to join?

No one can force an MK out of the knesset. She can leave Labour and form her own faction by law (she is 1/3 of Labour's house faction). whether she'll join Meretz remains to be seen, I doubt it though.

[Hnv1]

Annexation is approved to start in July 1st without a Gantz ability to veto. And the judiciary committee will have a conservative majority- there's supposed to be an opposition and coalition representative, but it ended up with a Likud rep and a KL rep who will be motherf**ing Hauser.

The judicial committee didn't really have an opposition rep the last 5 years. It's a customary practice.

all in all B&W squeezed quite a lot. but...Gantz will never be PM. starting tomorrow they will torment them on each step of the way to force them out.