North Carolina 2020 Redistricting

[Nyvin]

If you honestly think that is why the Democrats in then states do that. Then you are fooling yourself.

I’m not saying it’s the only reason. But it was definitely republicans that started the modern gerrymandering war with the old Texas, Louisiana, Florida maps of the 2000s & 2010s. Democrats also are playing in this, but we’re the ones trying to end it.

I think you are forgetting what Democrats did in NC for years. Republicans in NC at least are making maps that are too crazy

What happened in the past that's wrong doesn't justify what's done now that's wrong.

[Brittain33]

If you honestly think that is why the Democrats in then states do that. Then you are fooling yourself.

I’m not saying it’s the only reason. But it was definitely republicans that started the modern gerrymandering war with the old Texas, Louisiana, Florida maps of the 2000s & 2010s. Democrats also are playing in this, but we’re the ones trying to end it.

I think you are forgetting what Democrats did in NC for years. Republicans in NC at least are making maps that are too crazy

...back when the Democratic party in states like NC and TX was still led by white conservatives. You may not be aware that a decade ago, Republicans saw gerrymandering as a necessary tool to achieve power, while the people advocating for commissions and independent redistricting were Democrats. Good government and independent redistricting are liberal priorities. After Republicans used gerrymandering to lock up state legislatures and Congress, many liberals said Inks this, let's go for the jugular, too.

[Devils30]

The 4th district might go Dem in 4/6 years with additional Raleigh growth.

[lfromnj]

If you honestly think that is why the Democrats in then states do that. Then you are fooling yourself.

I’m not saying it’s the only reason. But it was definitely republicans that started the modern gerrymandering war with the old Texas, Louisiana, Florida maps of the 2000s & 2010s. Democrats also are playing in this, but we’re the ones trying to end it.

I think you are forgetting what Democrats did in NC for years. Republicans in NC at least are making maps that are too crazy

...back when the Democratic party in states like NC and TX was still led by white conservatives. You may not be aware that a decade ago, Republicans saw gerrymandering as a necessary tool to achieve power, while the people advocating for commissions and independent redistricting were Democrats. Good government and independent redistricting are liberal priorities. After Republicans used gerrymandering to lock up state legislatures and Congress, many liberals said Inks this, let's go for the jugular, too.

Some stuff

Firstly part of the ugliness of the maps was forced by HW Bush forcing VRA seats that made no sense like the I85 district. That doesn't mean that was the only reason but it was a major reason.


Secondly , I am pretty sure Roy Cooper  was involved to some degree in the 1997 mid decade court redistricting.  It isn't like it was all white dinos. The NC democrats were a multi racial party
Brad Miller was redistricting  chair in 2000 and drew his future CD. He was one of the most progressive  members and called for banking reforms that went quite far.  Cal Cunningham won a quite gerrymandered district back in 2000 as well.

This isn't to make an argument but it is important to note  that NC was not exactly DINO.

Infact in Georgia during the 2001 redistricting  John Lewis testified in court to help uphold the gerrymandering Roy Barnes drew. (In defense Lewis's testification was mostly just relating to unpacking the black seats)However compared to NC basically all those white Democrats are non existent after the Georgia GOP gerrymandered them out replacing them mostly with black liberals. Some of this was kinda the safe route as Atlanta and inner ring black areas faced low growth and some seats had to be cut to the suburbs so they didnt want to have retrogression arguments.. On the other hand the Georgia GOP has never drawn the fractals drawn by the NC/TX/FL GOP or DEMs at the CD level. They drew reasonable compact districts that didn't destroy communities even if they still drew favorable maps that you can still call a gerrymander.

[GALeftist]

...back when the Democratic party in states like NC and TX was still led by white conservatives. You may not be aware that a decade ago, Republicans saw gerrymandering as a necessary tool to achieve power, while the people advocating for commissions and independent redistricting were Democrats. Good government and independent redistricting are liberal priorities. After Republicans used gerrymandering to lock up state legislatures and Congress, many liberals said Inks this, let's go for the jugular, too.

Some stuff

Firstly part of the ugliness of the maps was forced by HW Bush forcing VRA seats that made no sense like the I85 district. That doesn't mean that was the only reason but it was a major reason.


Secondly , I am pretty sure Cooper  was involved to some degree in the 1997 mid decade court redistricting.  It isn't like it was all white dinos. The NC democrats were a multi racial party
Brad Miller was redistricting  chair in 2000 and drew his future CD. He was one of the most progressive  members and called for banking reforms that went quite far.  Cal Cunningham won a quite gerrymandered district back in 2000 as well.

This isn't to make an argument but it is important to note  that NC was not exactly DINO.

Infact in Georgia during the 2001 redistricting  John Lewis testified in court to help uphold the gerrymandering Roy Barnes drew. However compared to NC basically all those white Democrats are non existent after the Georgia GOP gerrymandered them out replacing them mostly with black liberals. Some of this was kinda the safe route as Atlanta and inner ring black areas faced low growth and some seats had to be cut to the suburbs so they didnt want to have retrogression arguments.. On the other hand the Georgia GOP has never drawn the fractals drawn by the NC/TX/FL GOP or DEMs at the CD level. They drew reasonable compact districts that didn't destroy communities .

I think the stronger point is that redistricting reform is now basically exclusively a Democratic concern. If the Republican Party wished to do so, they could ban partisan gerrymandering on the federal level within the week. They choose not to do so for a number of reasons, which means they don't get to complain about it when blue states do it. The fact that the Democratic Party once engaged in quite egregious and indefensible gerrymandering (with the caveat that the extent of the continuity between that Democratic Party and the modern one is somewhat debatable) really has no bearing on the morality here. That gerrymandering was wrong, but it's over now. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Nyvin]

If you honestly think that is why the Democrats in then states do that. Then you are fooling yourself.

I’m not saying it’s the only reason. But it was definitely republicans that started the modern gerrymandering war with the old Texas, Louisiana, Florida maps of the 2000s & 2010s. Democrats also are playing in this, but we’re the ones trying to end it.

I think you are forgetting what Democrats did in NC for years. Republicans in NC at least are making maps that are too crazy

...back when the Democratic party in states like NC and TX was still led by white conservatives. You may not be aware that a decade ago, Republicans saw gerrymandering as a necessary tool to achieve power, while the people advocating for commissions and independent redistricting were Democrats. Good government and independent redistricting are liberal priorities. After Republicans used gerrymandering to lock up state legislatures and Congress, many liberals said Inks this, let's go for the jugular, too.

Some stuff

Firstly part of the ugliness of the maps was forced by HW Bush forcing VRA seats that made no sense like the I85 district. That doesn't mean that was the only reason but it was a major reason.


Secondly , I am pretty sure Cooper  was involved to some degree in the 1997 mid decade court redistricting.  It isn't like it was all white dinos. The NC democrats were a multi racial party
Brad Miller was redistricting  chair in 2000 and drew his future CD. He was one of the most progressive  members and called for banking reforms that went quite far.  Cal Cunningham won a quite gerrymandered district back in 2000 as well.

This isn't to make an argument but it is important to note  that NC was not exactly DINO.

Infact in Georgia during the 2001 redistricting  John Lewis testified in court to help uphold the gerrymandering Roy Barnes drew. However compared to NC basically all those white Democrats are non existent after the Georgia GOP gerrymandered them out replacing them mostly with black liberals. Some of this was kinda the safe route as Atlanta and inner ring black areas faced low growth and some seats had to be cut to the suburbs so they didnt want to have retrogression arguments.. On the other hand the Georgia GOP has never drawn the fractals drawn by the NC/TX/FL GOP or DEMs at the CD level. They drew reasonable compact districts that didn't destroy communities .

I get so tired of hearing about stuff that happened 30+ years ago determining if what's going on today is justified or right.   

It was wrong then, it's wrong now, end.

[Vern]

If it’s wrong then why do Democrats do it now? And you can’t say well the Republicans are doing it so we have to do it to off set them… that crap and we know it. No matter who it is. The party in power will do what they can to help their party. There is no such thing as a fair map when you have people making them. They will alway bring in their bias view point.

And don’t say the Democrats made a fair map in NC, because even though their map was 7-7, it put Communities together that shouldn’t have been for the sake of making a more Democrat friendly map.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like everything about the Republican map, there are things I would change. But it is what it is.

[lfromnj]

If you honestly think that is why the Democrats in then states do that. Then you are fooling yourself.

I’m not saying it’s the only reason. But it was definitely republicans that started the modern gerrymandering war with the old Texas, Louisiana, Florida maps of the 2000s & 2010s. Democrats also are playing in this, but we’re the ones trying to end it.

I think you are forgetting what Democrats did in NC for years. Republicans in NC at least are making maps that are too crazy

...back when the Democratic party in states like NC and TX was still led by white conservatives. You may not be aware that a decade ago, Republicans saw gerrymandering as a necessary tool to achieve power, while the people advocating for commissions and independent redistricting were Democrats. Good government and independent redistricting are liberal priorities. After Republicans used gerrymandering to lock up state legislatures and Congress, many liberals said Inks this, let's go for the jugular, too.

Some stuff

Firstly part of the ugliness of the maps was forced by HW Bush forcing VRA seats that made no sense like the I85 district. That doesn't mean that was the only reason but it was a major reason.


Secondly , I am pretty sure Cooper  was involved to some degree in the 1997 mid decade court redistricting.  It isn't like it was all white dinos. The NC democrats were a multi racial party
Brad Miller was redistricting  chair in 2000 and drew his future CD. He was one of the most progressive  members and called for banking reforms that went quite far.  Cal Cunningham won a quite gerrymandered district back in 2000 as well.

This isn't to make an argument but it is important to note  that NC was not exactly DINO.

Infact in Georgia during the 2001 redistricting  John Lewis testified in court to help uphold the gerrymandering Roy Barnes drew. However compared to NC basically all those white Democrats are non existent after the Georgia GOP gerrymandered them out replacing them mostly with black liberals. Some of this was kinda the safe route as Atlanta and inner ring black areas faced low growth and some seats had to be cut to the suburbs so they didnt want to have retrogression arguments.. On the other hand the Georgia GOP has never drawn the fractals drawn by the NC/TX/FL GOP or DEMs at the CD level. They drew reasonable compact districts that didn't destroy communities .

I get so tired of hearing about stuff that happened 30+ years ago determining if what's going on today is justified or right.  

It was wrong then, it's wrong now, end.

I wasn't arguing against that but it is important to note history and who did what.

Also I guess the GA GOP did get to draw the fractal 1992 map by working with Black Democrats.

[lfromnj]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MurphinNC/status/1456317217142886406

She lives in North Mecklenburg and a few precincts had to go from Iredell .

Still ouch.

[Brittain33]

If it’s wrong then why do Democrats do it now? And you can’t say well the Republicans are doing it so we have to do it to off set them… that crap and we know it.

Huh? You can’t just handwave away the argument about unilateral disarmament. It’s a real point. If Democrats don’t do it in states they control, Republican build in a big advantage to House control.

It seems like Republicans are just upset that they can’t get away with gerrymandering every other southern and Midwestern state without Democrats copying their tactics.

[Nyvin]

If it’s wrong then why do Democrats do it now? And you can’t say well the Republicans are doing it so we have to do it to off set them… that crap and we know it. No matter who it is. The party in power will do what they can to help their party. There is no such thing as a fair map when you have people making them. They will alway bring in their bias view point.

And don’t say the Democrats made a fair map in NC, because even though their map was 7-7, it put Communities together that shouldn’t have been for the sake of making a more Democrat friendly map.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like everything about the Republican map, there are things I would change. But it is what it is.

Because letting Republicans gerrymander themselves into a permanent majority in the House isn't something the Democrats want to see happen.  Counter-gerrymandering in their states is literally their only real option at this time.

Unilateral disarmament doesn't work, it needs to be a team effort.

Make no mistake - Republicans absolutely are the source of the problem.   If Republicans wanted to, they could negotiate a congressional redistricting reform in the Senate that would pass the House and get Biden's signature. 

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

If it’s wrong then why do Democrats do it now? And you can’t say well the Republicans are doing it so we have to do it to off set them… that crap and we know it. No matter who it is. The party in power will do what they can to help their party. There is no such thing as a fair map when you have people making them. They will alway bring in their bias view point.

And don’t say the Democrats made a fair map in NC, because even though their map was 7-7, it put Communities together that shouldn’t have been for the sake of making a more Democrat friendly map.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like everything about the Republican map, there are things I would change. But it is what it is.

You gave your self the answer then refused it. Idk what else to tell you. All I can say is maybe state democrats can gerrymander brownbeat republicans into advancing the anti-gerrymander legislation they refuse to pass federally

[lfromnj]

Guys guys, lets not forget the real tragedy by the NC GOP

They renumbered the districts


/s

[OBD]

Guys guys, lets not forget the real tragedy by the NC GOP

They renumbered the districts


/s

wikipedia nerds seething

[GALeftist]

Whoever's suing the state had better get on it, seeing as how the most pressing issue for its success seems to be whether it gets to the NCSC before or after 2022.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Guys guys, lets not forget the real tragedy by the NC GOP

They renumbered the districts


/s

in the state House?

[lfromnj]

Guys guys, lets not forget the real tragedy by the NC GOP

They renumbered the districts


/s

in the state House?

Nah congressional. They did it PA style East to West.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Guys guys, lets not forget the real tragedy by the NC GOP

They renumbered the districts


/s

in the state House?

Nah congressional. They did it PA style East to West.

I see. That's unnecessary, but whatever.

[Oryxslayer]

Whoever's suing the state had better get on it, seeing as how the most pressing issue for its success seems to be whether it gets to the NCSC before or after 2022.

Case was filed two weeks ago in Wake. I believe I posted it in this thread.

[lfromnj]

https://twitter.com/DrewSav/status/1456362618470416385

That Cabarrus seat is very close and trending rapidly D but the Robeson seat is the opposite. 11 is also trending rightwards for a while atleast.


A fair map would definitely fix that NE cluster.

Democrats complained a bit about the Wake/Meck swing seats but not sure why the GOP would just gift seats away when you can still draw reasonable seats that are swing instead of Safe D.
They also wanted 11 and 4 to be VRA compliant by breaking the county cluster to make one Safe D and Safe R instead of tossup and Likely R.

Fayetteville is awkward of course but that was known.

County clusters aren't always great for communities but it does restrict any extreme gerrymandering. The GOP mostly maximized their map other than Wilmington where for some reason they didn't.

So mostly just means the GOP did what it could to increase its seats but they were heavily limited.

The state house has quite a few indisputable gerrymanders like the Gastonia and Cabarrus's splits

[nclib]

Trying to figure out the renumbering and where each congressperson will run:

NC-1: old NC-3 Murphy
NC-2: old NC-1 Butterfield
NC-3: old NC-7 Rouzer
NC-5: old NC-2 Ross
NC-6: old NC-4 Price's replacement
NC-9: old NC-12 Adams
NC-13: new district NC House speaker Tim Moore will run
NC-14: old NC-11 Cawthorn

any guesses on the others?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Wait people are trying to compartmentalize Democratic gerrymandering as "they were run by White Conservatives" then?

You have got to be kidding me!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Trying to figure out the renumbering and where each congressperson will run:

NC-1: old NC-3 Murphy
NC-2: old NC-1 Butterfield
NC-3: old NC-7 Rouzer
NC-5: old NC-2 Ross
NC-6: old NC-4 Price's replacement
NC-9: old NC-12 Adams
NC-13: new district NC House speaker Tim Moore will run
NC-14: old NC-11 Cawthorn

any guesses on the others?

Rouzer is based in Johnston county, so more than likely he runs in the new 4th, leaving the new 3rd open.

[Sol]

Gotta say, Dems attempting to wave away past/present Democratic gerrymandering is pretty cringe

It's definitely fair to say that Democrats are better on the issue (considering how the party has passed independent commissions in several states) but attempting to justify IL gerrymandering as necessary to avoid unilateral disarmament or excuse the disgusting NC 2000 map by claiming it as a conservadem thing (lol) shows that you actually don't care about the issue.

[lfromnj]

Gotta say, Dems attempting to wave away past/present Democratic gerrymandering is pretty cringe

It's definitely fair to say that Democrats are better on the issue (considering how the party has passed independent commissions in several states) but attempting to justify IL gerrymandering as necessary to avoid unilateral disarmament or excuse the disgusting NC 2000 map by claiming it as a conservadem thing (lol) shows that you actually don't care about the issue.

I mean a large portion of it is precedent from HW bush forcing it but yeah it definitely wasn't a conservadem issue. Brad Millers district wasn't needed but he got himself a free seat.


But as you mentioned in that weakest state party thread the North Carolina Democrats have long had atleast a small base of Urban white liberals. Cooper and Cunningham weren't exactly these(Nash and Salisbury) but I don't think anyone could call them DINO's. Funnily enough wasn't David Price relatively moderate although now he just seems to be a generic progressive backbencher.

Overall in 2008 the NC map elected 8 Democrats

2 black Democrats(Butterfield/Watts)
3 White liberals(Etherridge/Miller/Price) with broad meaning of the liberals as voted to pass AHCA.
2 Moderate Democrats(Larry Kissel and Schuler)
1 probably DINO(McIntyre)

I think the unilateral disarmament thing is a fair enough argument and not sure why you argue against it though. I mostly just posted earlier to correct Brittain's mostly incorrect history.