Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread v2 (pg 77 - declares victory in Iowa)

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

This whole spat reminds me of an incident in my Congressional primary in 2018. On the stage of a candidate forum, a high-profile female candidate claimed, on multiple occasions, that state party leadership told her not to run because she was a woman. She was, to the naked eye, running closely with a male, progressive candidate supported by the state party. For whatever reason, she made a bold claim of sexism from certain party leaders.

The only problem was that she was a carpetbagger. Obviously, party leadership told not to run because she only lived in the state for a few months before making her run, and someone actually rebuffed her on the debate stage. It later leaked that she explicitly moved to my district to run for Congress, further her political career, and the original plan was to try and primary a progressive leader in the state from the right.

This story reminds me exactly of that - a desperate, cynical, exploitation of real issues that women face for personal gain. A cursory scan of the record will show that not only Sanders thinks a woman can win the Presidency, but thought Warren herself could. It's a "he said, she said", but the "she said" part goes against everything that Bernie has said and done for the past 30 years. The only thing backing this up is the word of an anonymous staffer who wasn't there at the meeting, so I'll take the 30 years of consistency all day.

Say what you want about Hillary Clinton, but she'd never pull something like this. I believe the reason she blames Bernie is because she felt like he shouldn't have run, but she'd never fabricate an accusation of sexism. Even ****ing Kamala Harris, whose Twitter supporters are a who's who of the worst of the party, wouldn't do something like this. It's disappointing to see that one of my political heroes has turned into a pile of gutter trash who would do anything to get the nomination, and it's a ****ing joke that the media called Hillary sketchy while they gleefully amplify Warren's abject smear.

[Beet]

Look at all the people willing to accuse Warren of making up some rando bizzare statement with no evidence whatsoever. She would NEVER do that. If she said that's what happened, that's what happened. This is, at best, a misunderstanding. At worst? It's a lie knowing that if it is denied, it will devolve into a he-said-she said where "she" never wins, and there will never be any proof one way or the other. Very disappointing.

I don't understand the first part of your statement. How do we know that she would NEVER do that? Why are we supposed to automatically believe her word over his? Politicians lie all the time, especially when they are on the ropes.

It is very possible that it was a misunderstanding. I'm inclined to believe my candidate but we'll never know exactly what was said unless the audio was recorded.

That is fair, but it just seems extremely unlikely that you have her and her advisers sitting around going, "Gee, we're down in the primaries. What shall we do?" "Hey, let's claim that Bernie told you a year ago that a woman can't win!" Like, it's not the 1st thing on the list, it's not the 50th thing on the list. I can't imagine it going down like that. There's an element of truth to this story for sure.

That being said, even if Bernie did say this, it's nothing worse than what Biden said like a week or two ago.

[Roblox]

Pretty strange/grating to hear many on twitter say this is about a women speaking her truth, or treating Warren's statement as "confirmation" when its a she said he said situation that could easily be (if you ask me, more likely than not) a case of a politician lying.

[Mr. Morden]

https://twitter.com/BethLynch2020/status/1216788678296600583?s=20

Full statement from the Sanders camp;

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win," Sanders said. "It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."

I mean, even from the denial above, how are we to take that bolded sentence?  That he's worried that the nominee being a woman would be a net political negative, even if it's not *such* a negative that it tips the scales into being "unelectable"?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Beet, we have literal footage of Bernie Sanders saying the opposite over the years.

Because politicians never say things in private that they wouldn't dare say in public?

Stop being deliberately obtuse.  This is not a case of Sanders saying something in private he wouldn't say in public.  This is a case of Sanders saying the exact opposite, unprompted, repeatedly over the years... of what he's accused of today by someone with a known history of stretching the truth and embellishing for political gain.  

It is obviously political poison (both now and decades ago for that matter) for a politician to say publicly that they don't think a woman is electable to the presidency.  If they believe that, then of course they're going to say the opposite in public.  I'm agnostic as to whether Sanders or Warren is telling the truth, but "He said the opposite in public!" is an absurd argument in this case.

Un-prompt-ed, Morden... jesus.  This is not a case of Sanders covering his tracks when asked.  It's a political rival making an accusation that is not just unproven, but completely out of character.  

https://twitter.com/BethLynch2020/status/1216837998857347073?s=20

When you are going to make the accusation, especially one like this, the burden is on the accuser; not on the accused to present proof that he didn't say it.  You're acting like both sides are equal absent of evidence.  No dude, not by a long shot.  Especially when it's so easy to look at their records and point to one of them being far more full of sh**t than the other.

[Holmes]

So earlier this morning it was “it was just them two in the meeting, how could these anonymous sources know what exactly was said?” and now that Warren says it was said but we should move on, it’s “how dare she say that, she should walk it back, she should apologize” like come on y’all. Try to be consistent.

[Gass3268]

Disappointing to see Bernie go so negative like that against Warren. Takes away any doubt that I'll support Biden if Warren drops out before Maryland votes. Sanders needs to go return to the backbench or better yet retire.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Look at all the people willing to accuse Warren of making up some rando bizzare statement with no evidence whatsoever. She would NEVER do that. If she said that's what happened, that's what happened. This is, at best, a misunderstanding. At worst? It's a lie knowing that if it is denied, it will devolve into a he-said-she said where "she" never wins, and there will never be any proof one way or the other. Very disappointing.

Beet, we have literal footage of Bernie Sanders saying the opposite over the years.  Liz Warren went around saying she's a Native American.  I can infer things about her proclivity towards embellishment from her words and her actions in the same way I can infer Bernie's proclivity towards honesty from everything we know, have seen, and have heard from him.  This is not difficult.     

Yes because what a politician says in public with nothing at stake is a great indicator of what they'll say in private to a potential opponent for the presidency right before the start of the primaries. Bernie Sanders said just yesterday that "no one will be trashing Warren" while on the same day his Comms. Director trashed her on twitter. I can infer unfavorable things about his proclivity towards being lose with words in the same way I can infer Warren's proclivity towards honesty from the grilling she's been through and the weak sauce produced. This is not difficult.

That's two in a row you just copy-pasted what you were responding to and switched a few words around in a vain attempt at proof by contradiction.  Would you like to give it a real go?

[Arizona Iced Tea]

I am out of the loop about the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren conflict going on right now. Could someone please summarize to me what is going on between the two candidates and what the fuss is all about? Thank you in advance

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I am out of the loop about the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren conflict going on right now. Could someone please summarize to me what is going on between the two candidates and what the fuss is all about? Thank you in advance

Liz Warren is in desperation mode.  That about sums it up. 

[DrScholl]

Believing that women should be encouraged to run for office and thinking that they can win are two different things. Considering that the first woman ever nominated for President lost the general election it isn't a stretch to think that some people might question whether or not a woman can win. After 2016 a lot of people seemed to think that nominating anyone other than a white man was a slap in the face to the heartland. There were even some pushing various white men to be Speaker of the House because that image would be better for the heartland.

[Holmes]

I am out of the loop about the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren conflict going on right now. Could someone please summarize to me what is going on between the two candidates and what the fuss is all about? Thank you in advance

Sanders supporters upset that Warren confirmed a report that Sanders told her privately in 2018 that a woman can’t win the presidency in 2020. It honestly might’ve just been a comment made in passing while they were discussing other topics.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I think at worst, deploying this story is a really cynical way of juicing the women vote. It's not something I'm proud of. The Sanders campaign was just as cynically tarring Warren supporters as upper class to try to push similar buttons.

Neither campaign looks good doing this. Acting like one is better than the other here is rather ridiculous but of course most people in this thread are so bought into one candidate or another they're going to insist their candidate is faultless while the other is despicable.

A great example of the self-delusion is people who think Sanders saying his campaign never instructed volunteers to say anything about Warren proves his innocence but Warren confirming the Sanders story is obviously a lie, and people who similarly unfaultingly believe Warren but think Sanders is lying. Headspinning levels of backtracking happening here.

[OneJ]

I think at worst, deploying this story is a really cynical way of juicing the women vote. It's not something I'm proud of. The Sanders campaign was just as cynically tarring Warren supporters as upper class to try to push similar buttons.

Neither campaign looks good doing this. Acting like one is better than the other here is rather ridiculous but of course most people in this thread are so bought into one candidate or another they're going to insist their candidate is faultless while the other is despicable,

100% agreed.

[YE]

I think at worst, deploying this story is a really cynical way of juicing the women vote. It's not something I'm proud of. The Sanders campaign was just as cynically tarring Warren supporters as upper class to try to push similar buttons.

Neither campaign looks good doing this. Acting like one is better than the other here is rather ridiculous but of course most people in this thread are so bought into one candidate or another they're going to insist their candidate is faultless while the other is despicable,

100% agreed.

[Shadows]

"Bernie and I met for more than two hours in December 2018 to discuss the 2020 election, our past work together and our shared goals," the Massachusetts senator said in a statement. "Among the topics that came up was what would happen if Democrats nominated a female candidate. I thought a woman could win; he disagreed," she said.

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win. It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened" he said. He added that "of course" a woman could win. "After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016," Sanders said.

Sanders campaign manager Faiz Shakir had urged Warren to speak out on the CNN report earlier in the day, telling NBC News, "I believe strongly what we are talking about here is a lie."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/reports-say-sanders-told-warren-woman-can-t-win-presidential-n1114706

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

I am out of the loop about the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren conflict going on right now. Could someone please summarize to me what is going on between the two candidates and what the fuss is all about? Thank you in advance

Sanders supporters upset that Warren confirmed a report that Sanders told her privately in 2018 that a woman can’t win the presidency in 2020. It honestly might’ve just been a comment made in passing while they were discussing other topics.

Dave Weigel's theory is that he said something about how sexism would hurt her, which got twisted in "she shouldn't run". Remember the whole spat about how racism hurt Gillum's and Abrams' campaigns? Most people focused on the terribly-worded pivot and said it was evidence that Bernie was hand-waving racism.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Warren has a long history of twisting reality to her advantage. It's no coincidence that this falsehood emerges in a moment of desperation. Only a fool would believe her.

It can simultaneously be strategically leaked and 100% true.

[Shadows]

Warren has a long history of twisting reality to her advantage. It's no coincidence that this falsehood emerges in a moment of desperation. Only a fool would believe her.

It can simultaneously be strategically leaked and 100% true.

How can it be true? It was closed door meeting between only Bernie & Warren. No1 else knows about it. It is her word against his.

If anything why would Bernie in a meeting with Warren say a woman would not win? That is totally uncharacteristic to Bernie's record & career & also something ridiculous & extremely stupid thing to say.

[Holmes]

I am out of the loop about the Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren conflict going on right now. Could someone please summarize to me what is going on between the two candidates and what the fuss is all about? Thank you in advance

Sanders supporters upset that Warren confirmed a report that Sanders told her privately in 2018 that a woman can’t win the presidency in 2020. It honestly might’ve just been a comment made in passing while they were discussing other topics.

Dave Weigel's theory is that he said something about how sexism would hurt her, which got twisted in "she shouldn't run". Remember the whole spat about how racism hurt Gillum's and Abrams' campaigns? Most people focused on the terribly-worded pivot and said it was evidence that Bernie was hand-waving racism.

Yeah tbf Sanders does have a history of trying to mean one thing but the words he uses aren't... the best ones to convey that meaning. I really do believe it was a comment that was made but they didn't really dwell on it.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Warren has a long history of twisting reality to her advantage. It's no coincidence that this falsehood emerges in a moment of desperation. Only a fool would believe her.

It can simultaneously be strategically leaked and 100% true.

It's as true as Warren's parents having to elope because her mother was Cherokee and Delaware.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Shadows did nothing wrong.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Warren has a long history of twisting reality to her advantage. It's no coincidence that this falsehood emerges in a moment of desperation. Only a fool would believe her.

It can simultaneously be strategically leaked and 100% true.

It's as true as Warren's parents having to elope because her mother was Cherokee and Delaware.

With all due respect, I don't think your opinion on this matter was ever in doubt.

[Anti Democrat Democrat Club]

Warren has a long history of twisting reality to her advantage. It's no coincidence that this falsehood emerges in a moment of desperation. Only a fool would believe her.

She chose her ego over the movement. Now the movement is in serious, serious danger because of her betrayal.

[Adam Griffin]

You see, this is what irks me. Besides the fact that he probably didn't even say this (or even if he did, it was likely an articulate discussion outlining the well-documented handicaps that certain groups of people face when running for office), there's a lot of people taking Warren's side who don't even support her simply because she's not Bernie, who are also going around yelling "Biden is the most electable!" - because he does on average about one point better than Sanders in hypothetical GE polling.

Yet - and admittedly based on a handful of old studies we have - the conclusions from those studies showed that women earn 1-2 points less on average than men among identical electorates.

So which is it? Do we care about electability or do we care about making a statement? If ruling out Sanders as an electable candidate because he's polling a point or so behind Biden in polls months before the election, then shouldn't an even forceful argument be made against Warren - who is not only demonstrably doing far worse in this kind of polling, but is also potentially subject to her own handicap by virtue of being female?

At least be consistent. Note: if you say it doesn't matter or that it shouldn't matter, then you're explicitly arguing that sexism is politics is dead.